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Strange armour values - 3/10/2004 11:28:47 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Hello

Recently I've been seeing some odd armour thickness values. For example, in a recently played scenario my Kingtiger got hit by a M9 bazooka. I was kinda surprised when I've noticed 120 pen value against 100 armour..a front hull hit. How come only 100 when the plate is 155 at 50 degrees?

Similar things have been happening in the Desert Fox MC...I keep popping Matildas with 37mm armed Pz-III's...I see penetrations against a 50mm armour, when the plate is 55 at thinnest

Any ideas? And no, these weren't any vulnerable location hits.

Voriax

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Post #: 1
RE: Strange armour values - 3/11/2004 12:15:42 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		The only I can think of right now is armor quality.

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Post #: 2
RE: Strange armour values - 3/11/2004 1:07:50 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

The only I can think of right now is armor quality.


I've thought of this, but when at least a third of armour thickess just 'vanishes'...hmm..now KT is '5' and Matilda is '7' Now to dig up how much these weaken the armour...

Voriax

edit: seems that '7' is cast and gives a 0,6 to 0,95 modifier..so that would explain the Matilda. 5 would mean high hardness or flawed and that gives 0,8 to 1,15..doesn't quite explain the missing 55mm...perhaps there are other 'fudge factors' involved.

< Message edited by Voriax -- 3/11/2004 1:13:48 AM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Strange armour values - 3/11/2004 1:23:20 AM   
Svennemir

 

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		HEAT almost ignores slope. (try HEAT against T-34 or another steeply sloped vehicle)

Now we just need to account for the missing millimetres.

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Post #: 4
RE: Strange armour values - 3/11/2004 1:43:48 AM   
JJKettunen


Posts: 3530
Joined: 3/12/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Svennemir

HEAT almost ignores slope.


No it doesn't...at least in reality.

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Post #: 5
RE: Strange armour values - 3/11/2004 2:44:37 PM   
Warrior2


Posts: 237
Joined: 6/25/2001
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		Desert Fox was designed back in the days of v5. That should explain any oddities.

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Post #: 6
RE: Strange armour values - 3/11/2004 6:58:51 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svennemir

HEAT almost ignores slope.


No it doesn't...at least in reality.


Correct. You need to strike somewhat perpendicular to the target surface to get a good 'focus' point of the plasma jet.

What HEAT does, is ignore Vo.

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Post #: 7
RE: Strange armour values - 3/12/2004 3:32:40 PM   
RockinHarry


Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Voriax

Hello

Recently I've been seeing some odd armour thickness values. For example, in a recently played scenario my Kingtiger got hit by a M9 bazooka. I was kinda surprised when I've noticed 120 pen value against 100 armour..a front hull hit. How come only 100 when the plate is 155 at 50 degrees?

Similar things have been happening in the Desert Fox MC...I keep popping Matildas with 37mm armed Pz-III's...I see penetrations against a 50mm armour, when the plate is 55 at thinnest

Any ideas? And no, these weren't any vulnerable location hits.

Voriax


The game manual has some useful info how HEAT (and other ammo type) is modelled in the game. I don´t have checked your info with OOB or info in manual though yet, so I can´t tell about your finding in particular by now.

Did you save the combat.txt file (ALT-L)? Does it give any useful info?

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Post #: 8
RE: Strange armour values - 3/14/2004 11:40:12 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Rockinharry, I did not have logging on back then. But I did a small test scen and fired some shots at Kingtigers. Here's a clip from combat log, 2 shots.

M9 Bazooka Team firing at Konigstiger at a range of 2 hexes, ~using M9 Bazooka~Hit Chance 98 percent
diam = 105.00
base_arm_div_diam = 1.48
poor quality armor mod = 1.09
adjusted arm value = 218
~Konigstiger is hit, FRONT HULL hit by M9 Bazooka, using HEAT ammo, ~Pen 32, Armor 218, No Effect
M9 Bazooka Team firing at Konigstiger at a range of 2 hexes, ~using M9 Bazooka~Hit Chance 98 percent
diam = 105.00
base_arm_div_diam = 1.48
poor quality armor mod = 1.09
adjusted arm value = 109
Crewmen DESTROYED ****
~Konigstiger is hit, FRONT HULL hit by M9 Bazooka, using HEAT ammo, ~Pen 117, Armor 109, Konigstiger DESTROYED

These were the very first shots I fired, nothing is clipped from this log except the destruction of my second test target...now the armor mods and other variables are the same, but for shot one the effective hull armor was 218, while for shot two it was 109

Voriax

edited: typos

< Message edited by Voriax -- 3/14/2004 11:43:45 PM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Strange armour values - 3/15/2004 12:23:40 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline 		can one pls. explain the "poor armor" ratings ?

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Post #: 10
RE: Strange armour values - 3/15/2004 2:28:51 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Ger rid of your SpWaW.prf file

Alot of oddities can be fixed by doing this

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Post #: 11
RE: Strange armour values - 3/15/2004 4:20:12 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Ger rid of your SpWaW.prf file

Alot of oddities can be fixed by doing this


But not this one, I tried and got a bunch of similar hits.

Voriax

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Post #: 12
RE: Strange armour values - 3/15/2004 6:38:35 PM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline
quote:

M9 Bazooka Team firing at Konigstiger at a range of 2 hexes, ~using M9 Bazooka~Hit Chance 98 percent
diam = 105.00
base_arm_div_diam = 1.48
poor quality armor mod = 1.09
adjusted arm value = 109
Crewmen DESTROYED ****
~Konigstiger is hit, FRONT HULL hit by M9 Bazooka, using HEAT ammo, ~Pen 117, Armor 109, Konigstiger DESTROYED


ON any hit there is like a 10% (with an adjustment for firer experience that can raise higher) chance of hitting a "vulnerable location" and the armor value is halved. That is what it looks like happend here (it seeming too coincidental that 109 is half 218). Sometimes for some reason the "flag "vulnerable location hit" is printed out of sequence.

< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 3/15/2004 11:38:10 AM >

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Post #: 13
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