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About Asl and Squad leader - 3/14/2004 6:50:42 PM   
Paddington

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I really want to play some of the old boardgames...

I looked through ebay, And found some auctions. What do I need to play SL? If I buy SL, cross of iron and crescenda of doom.. Am I ready to play? Or doo I need something else?

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Post #: 1
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/14/2004 7:02:10 PM   
M4Jess


Posts: 5140
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: DC
Status: offline 		you can start with just good ol SL..

http://www.advancephase.com/

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Im making war, not trouble~


(in reply to Paddington)
Post #: 2
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/14/2004 8:45:39 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		The long answer would be, that you only need original Squad Leader to play Squad Leader but....

If you get a nice copy, it gives you the 4 original boards, Russians, Germans and US forces. Bit of vehicles, basic artillery concepts and a modest DYO system.

Cross of Iron did a major over haul of the armour system, and revamped the Russian and German vehicles. It also had a new board.

Crescendo of Doom was the first appearance of British French and minors tot he game. And a lot of stuff was re worked. It had two new boards.

GI Anvil of Victory was the finally reworked US forces for boards, and an attempt to unify and re organise the rules system.

You will want to likely either settle for Squad Leader, or get the components in the order they were released. The Programmed Instruction Method is retained through CoI and CoD I believe (don't have my GI Anvil of Victory manual handy to confirm that one).

Sadly though, Squad Leader as a game, is no longer on sale. It is an eBay option basically. But you might be able to find it used for peanuts.
This is because the game is now known as Advanced Squad Leader. ASL is a mega expansive economic nightmare the likes of which if you have not encountered it,might scare the crap out of ya hehe.

An intro package to ASL requires the rule book (maddeningly out of print at the current moment) Cost 100 bucks (approx.). And the core ,odule (the original core module) is Beyond Valour (also out of print at moment) also about 100 bucks. It provides the Russians and Germans 4 boards, and it is basically "assumes" you have the boards that originated with the Squad Leader modules.

That ASL is a massive expense is a grotesque understatement. You will NOT find a more expensive wargame in existence.
It also has a fanatical following (I am basically one of them :) ).

This hard core ASLer though, is still of the opinion, original Squad Leader all by itself, is still a classic game.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
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Post #: 3
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/14/2004 9:22:36 PM   
Paddington

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		How would you compare sl to panzer blitz and panzer leader?

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Post #: 4
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/15/2004 2:39:14 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Squad Leader as compared to Panzer Blits (and Panzer Leader was just an extension of PB), differs in scale.

In SL, a squad Counter is the norm, while in PB it is a platoon unit.
In SL a vehicle counter is an individual vehicle, while in PB, it is a platoon of vehicles.
The map scale goes from seeing individual buildings, to a hex being an urban hex symbol.
Time frame is increased as well of course.
Scenarios are more oriented around small tactical objectives for SL, and of course in PB, the objective is notched up to the next level of echelon.

Game complexity level is about equal if you compare SL with PL, although PB is a lot more simpler.

I would have to say, that a copy of SL and a copy of PB/PL is sort of a must for any fan of tactical wargaming. There currently really is no comparable equal to ASL though. Many might think that is a good thing though :)

Dollar wise, I would think all three titles would fetch about the same amount. SL is not really a high price item due to it being more likely a fan will desire ASL. I would be inclined to scoff at anyone asking a lot for even a mint unopened copy of any of the three. I have seen copies of SL and PB sitting around priced at 10 bucks (Canadian).

MMP is supposed to be working on PB2 which will basically be a blended re release of PB/PL I would assume.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paddington)
Post #: 5
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/15/2004 7:33:30 PM   
Paddington

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Is it important to have a new edition of the rulesets(there are atleast3)? Are there any major changes?

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-The Bear Paddington

(in reply to Paddington)
Post #: 6
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/15/2004 7:49:28 PM   
Paddington

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		btw. Someone sell me cross of iron. I can only find sl for sale to Europe, whit paypal or visa...

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-The Bear Paddington

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Post #: 7
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/15/2004 7:52:29 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		My edition of the SL maual is 4th edition. I am thinking that was the last one.

The modifications the game goes through as it travels through CoI then CoD and finally GI are such, that a lot of the earlier material in SL is actually superceded.

Thus, if you buy CoI, all the armour rules get replaced basically.

What caused the incentive to attempt ASL, was that by the time they got to GI, the game had been fiddled with a few to many times.

As far as earlier editions of the SL manual though, I am not fully aware of the actual differences.

My advice, look for a game of the latest edition you can locate if possible.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paddington)
Post #: 8
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/16/2004 10:59:47 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		Hello Paddington, I own all four modules from SL, Squad Leader, Cross of Iron, Cresendo of Doom and GI.
They are a great game but become disjointed rulewise as the later modules were released. I thought recently that I would scan the rules into my computer and edit them into one nice strealined rule booklet. It all became too hard a task.

To put it simply, you will find it easier to understand the rules (one booklet, largish) and find opponents if you move into Advanced Squad Leader.

Good playing
Klink

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Post #: 9
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/16/2004 4:47:05 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Paddington,

Soon Multi man Publishing will be comming out with the ASL Starter Kit #1 which they claim is a self contained learning module. They will also be making something called Introductory ASL. From what I understand both will cost about $24.00 each. If you have an interest in this monster of a game and money is no object, then this is it.

You can see for yourself what Im talking about at

www.multimanpublishing.com

Have fun!

_____________________________

KED

(in reply to Klinkenhoffen)
Post #: 10
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/16/2004 5:47:54 PM   
Pete AU


Posts: 35
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Australia - Perth
Status: offline 		"old board wargames"

Now I feel old. I think I bought my 1st board wargame back in 85, not a classic, but I still have it and its great "Burma" - an interesting game with a bloodless CRT. Who remembers ''airforce" "nordligen" "panzerblitz" "drag natsh undestein - sp?"
Heh - steel panthers has been around awhile too - sigh.

SL is a great game on its own, and is much improved with cross of iron. The expansions after that just seemed to muddy the water for me.

At the moment I've taken up the ASL addiction. Yes the rules are more of a technical manual! But once you start you just want more. Once you get a handle on basic infantry, the thrill of introducing that 1st mortar simply cannot be overestimated.

Klinks idea of merging all the SL manuals is a noble one, but, since the popularity of ASL has now eclipsed the SL series (despite much of the core stuff being out awaiting reprints) I'd sell you grandma for a copy of the rules, indeed, you may have to do just that if you buy it from E(xtortion)-Bay.

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Post #: 11
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/16/2004 5:49:24 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Yep I mirror that advice, if you buy SL and like it, you may never wish anything else.

But it becomes a sort of slippery slope issue. Because once you get CoI, you realise hey this is good. Then you add CoD and you are likely hooked, but by the time you have bought GI, you realise hey this is all great, but maybe I should have bought ASL.

Trouble with ASL, is that while it wears the "Advanced" label common to some board games, I think it is misleading hehe. It should be called "Ultra". Because its the price tag that will decide you.

Tricky spot though, is you will need the boards from SL system in the ASL system, so if you can, buy the SL modules on the cheap if for no other reason, than to get the boards.

Final word though, I think you have what you need to have fun, if all you have is basic SL. SL is truely a masterpiece wargame.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 12
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/17/2004 4:28:40 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		If you start frech you don't have to, because they are now included in the new moduels.

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KED

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 13
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/17/2004 5:43:21 AM   
Klinkenhoffen

 

Posts: 248
Joined: 1/30/2003
Status: offline 		Pete AU and I have been wargamming together off and on since 85.

And he still gets the better off me more often than not.

But Pete you are not going to like what I just did to those T-34's creeping up to me in the village.

Klink

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It's all gone horribly wrong !

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Post #: 14
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/17/2004 6:06:39 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Only downside to the boards being in the new modules though Kevin, is it might mean getting 4 GI boards in a GI module that sells for peanuts, or getting the 4 boards in modules that cost you valuable spare organs heheh.

And this assumes the person wants that specific module too (although most ASL fanatics want everthing eventually heheh).

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 15
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/19/2004 6:43:28 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline 		Hey paddington,

I've got an original ASL manual and a super condition Beyond Valor I'd be happy to sell you. I bought all the original SL series, but never got into ASL. By that time, computer wargames had taken over my life (other than WIF).

Beyond Valor is punched and in a multi-drawer organizer. Only been played a couple times by me solitaire. It would be a good starter for you if you really want to get into ASL.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 16
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/19/2004 2:47:39 PM   
Paddington

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Email sent...

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Post #: 17
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/19/2004 3:10:57 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		At the risk of intruding on a private deal, but just to give an outside opinion Paddington, if you want an opinion of someone that has seen both, there is not enough difference between ASL 1st Edition and ASL 2nd edition manuals to matter (to a new player).

If he has offered below current new price, it is a good option to consider, as those items are often just not an option at any price hehe.

If you want further insight opinions, wander into Warfare HQ's ASL forum or the ASL Forum.

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

http://www.asl-forums.net/main/

I personally think you can get all angles of opinion there equally. And you can also gain the ear of Keith Dalton who speaks for MMP on an official level as well.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Paddington)
Post #: 18
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/19/2004 3:36:36 PM   
Paddington

 

Posts: 90
Joined: 11/28/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I havent got a price yet... But I think ASL is simply too expensive for me :(

But I found something interestin on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3182436155&category=2537#ebayphotohosting

< Message edited by Paddington -- 3/19/2004 3:36:49 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/19/2004 5:18:10 PM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		Thats what I payed just for Squad leader in the 70's. Looks good. Then when your hooked, BAM!! Down goe's a hundred bucks for the ASL rule book.BAM!! Now you have to buy Beyond Valor, another bundle of cash. And the rest is the history of why your wallet is always empty. I own the whole kit and kaboodle, the Journals, Extentions, Deluxe, Historical Studies, Historical Module's and Two ASL Rule Books. I just ordered Armies of Oblivion w/o Maps to save a few bucks but I know in the end I,ll buy them. A major investment indeed! But if the power goe's out and computers don,t work, I still have an outlet for my WWII gameing needs!

_____________________________

KED

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Post #: 20
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/19/2004 6:18:58 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		If you can't stomache the cost of ASL, and frankly it amazes me any do :)

Then yes, that offer looks veeeeeery good Paddington.

Sounds like the materials are all there. And if you go to ASL Forums, you can reference plenty of options to confirm if any parts are missing as well.

I found this link that will assist you in that need.

http://www.isimulacrum.com/Scans.php

The guy has scanned maaaaaaaaany wargames and SL is there among them, and you can download an image to confim the completeness of your purchase.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 21
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/21/2004 2:28:07 AM   
Pete AU


Posts: 35
Joined: 3/11/2004
From: Australia - Perth
Status: offline 		Let me be the first to congratulate Klink on his purchase of the the much saught after ASLRB ver2 hidden the the nether depths of out regular wargaming shop for at least the last 5 years. Funny what you can find if you know where to look.

The the addiction begin.

_____________________________

"You don't have to tell me I'm right, we'll assume it".

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 22
RE: About Asl and Squad leader - 3/21/2004 2:56:27 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Ahhh the best purchases are always the ones that count as true "scores" ain't they hehe.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Pete AU)
Post #: 23
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