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Port Moresby - 3/13/2004 6:18:46 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		Is there any chance for the allies to hold port moresby against a human opponent who decides to make that base his main objective (like using 2nd and 38th Division to go in including all carriers available at that time)?


Sven
Post #: 1
RE: Port Moresby - 3/13/2004 7:05:04 PM   
Hoplosternum


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline 		No

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 2
RE: Port Moresby - 3/13/2004 7:50:13 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		thought so, just wanted to be reassured.

(in reply to Hoplosternum)
Post #: 3
RE: Port Moresby - 3/13/2004 10:14:46 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Whoa. I don't think it's all that cut-and-dried. For one thing, it depends on the scenario. I have to assume that this discussion is about the full campaign scenarios, 17 and 19. In sc. 19, it's probably true, as this is the "maximum Japanese effort in the South Pacific" setting. Still, the odd early disaster to Japanese carrier air supremacy or Allied LBA catching an unprotected transport force can turn things around very quickly.

This is even more true in sc. 17, where the Japanese have only one advantage at the beginning: a shortage of American carrier fighters. If you are crafty enough, and if the gods are willing and your IJN opponent slips up, you can give the Japanese a bloody nose in the "Coral Sea period," where the Japanese are short on everything from ground forces to surface combatants.

You can do such things as run quick reinforcements to Gili-Gili, Buna, and Port Moresby, launch a ground campaign against Lae through Wau, and seed a lot of LBA into Port Moresby to hunt down IJN transport shipping. You may have to retreat, but make 'em pay the price, says I.

There is a second (very brief) window of opportunity for the Allies in sc. 17, as well, when the F4F-4s are arriving in significant numbers and the first two reinforcement carriers show up before the Japanese death star mass does. I have sometimes been able to cobble together a successful (though costly) defense of both Port Moresby and Lunga - of course, the better Japanese players usually beat this down, but, at the same time, I buy a lot of time and cost the Japanese a lot of materiel.

The same general principles apply when you are playing those hyper-aggressive Japanese commanders who go hell-bent for Noumea, Luganville, Townsville, or other such vital places. Remember that these are over-extended operations that have to have limitations and weaknesses to them. Try to find those and exploit them to the max.

Play like your hair's on fire (I'd much rather die as Lee than live as Fechteler). After all, nobody's getting hurt, it's only a game. If you get your @$$ kicked, you can always say, "Nice game, I learned a lot. Want to play again?" If you win, you can say, "Mogami? Yeah, average player, I guess..."

Take nothing for granted. Be creative. Try for tactical surprise. You'll lose some, but you'll win some, too.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 4
RE: Port Moresby - 3/14/2004 5:36:28 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		In my IJN Game against the AI, I have assembled the invasion forces for Port Moresby in Rabaul now. Luckily, one of my subs torpedoed the lady lex (two torpedoes hit). Well, it was killed by the destroyer escorts, but this should take that carrier out for a while.
its something like july the 27th now. I have not captured anything else yet. I stayed back until all the CV's arrived I can get (Kaga stayed at home, probably to protect the emperor or something like that. oh, well high command..).After taking port moresby, i will take the undefended Buna with a naval garrison. Milne Bay will be a slight problem since two landunits (probably Aussie Brigades) are stationed there. South seas detachment+ Yazawa Detachment should be able to take them out though. After that, on to Luganville , going for the sudden death victory. Quite anxious about what will happen next.

I agree that an early invasion of Noumea is a very risky business for the japanese. You will face at least three, maybe four or five allied CV's, at that time equipped with the newer wildcats. Although the american CV-Force will look ragged after that, they get some forces back, where as the japanese don't (not to mention that the battle takes place close to your base, the jap CV's that are heavily damaged probably won't make it back to Shortland, Rabaul or Truk).

Sven

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 5
RE: Port Moresby - 3/14/2004 7:50:31 PM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline 		I agree with you 100%
I started 4 scen 17 PBEM pbem games and took the offensive as the allies,
I took PM and also lunga .
It took a long time for the japanese to take these back, a stalling action
that is causing two games to go the distance (no auto victory for japs)
I am losing very badly in another game as the japanese player is
far more experienced than me and I am in a death match for rockhampton.
1 game ended as the japanese player lost too much material
strength to go on.
As a rookie that started those games I feel I did rather well and gained
far more experience in doing so.
I have started another game and took a defensive slow buildup approach
and can't say I like this approach as the japanese subs are slowly gaining
ground on my shipping and I am getting kinda boxed in.
Just my two cents worth.

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 6
RE: Port Moresby - 3/14/2004 8:13:20 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Yeah, us human players are funny people. While the AI tends to just be stupid, we're creative and prone to making all kinds of mistakes that can be exploited.

I was having a grand time in my first PBEM game, playing sc. 17 as the Allies, and in the first big knock-down drag-out CV battle, I forgot to take my fighters off lock down and put them back on CAP-escort.

So much for ever having a perfect won-lost record.

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 3/14/2004 1:16:15 PM >

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 7
RE: Port Moresby - 3/14/2004 11:03:42 PM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
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From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
I was having a grand time in my first PBEM game, playing sc. 17 as the Allies, and in the first big knock-down drag-out CV battle, I forgot to take my fighters off lock down and put them back on CAP-escort.


Ouch...

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 8
RE: Port Moresby - 3/15/2004 5:21:51 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		Well, my AAR. So much for the KB. Although I came out on top in the carrierbattle, loosing one against sinking three allied CV's (only Saratoga is left), My CV'S got badly mauled too. Had to sent three back for repairs.
The real surprise came up when my forces landed at PM. Just about every Soldier available to SWPAC at that time was hanging around in PM. two Australian Divisions with a multitude of Base forces etc. My two divisions weren't enough. I had to ship in EVERY major LCU available meaning that about 90% of my Ground Combat strength are hanging around in PM now. The Airfield at PM was also put back to action rather quickly after having been taken out by my Bombardment TF. Was able to sink some of his transports though.
What I have now is the attrition battle the Japanese cannot hope to win.
I will try another approach in my next game.

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 9
RE: Port Moresby - 3/15/2004 8:45:16 PM   
redman1

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 2/23/2004
Status: offline 		More and more I'm coming to the belief that PM is just not worth devoting a lot of resources to capturing early on for the Japanese player. It's a resource drain, both in capturing it and in holding it and keeping it supplied. It's also merely an annoyance to you if the Allies have it early on, and it of course forces them to supply it, which invites units up north for you to target from Buna and other places. I'd rather devote my efforts to Lunga and points south, and gobble up PM when pressure in other parts of the theater forces the allies to divert resources there.

_____________________________

"Never send a monster to do the work of an evil scientist!"

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 10
RE: Port Moresby - 3/15/2004 8:59:13 PM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: redman1

More and more I'm coming to the belief that PM is just not worth devoting a lot of resources to capturing early on for the Japanese player. It's a resource drain, both in capturing it and in holding it and keeping it supplied. It's also merely an annoyance to you if the Allies have it early on, and it of course forces them to supply it, which invites units up north for you to target from Buna and other places. I'd rather devote my efforts to Lunga and points south, and gobble up PM when pressure in other parts of the theater forces the allies to divert resources there.


Diagree completely with you on this. If the Allies control PM, then you will have no secure base south of Truk, and Truk is too far away from witch to respond to Allied moves. Every one of the IJN bases is within range of B17s flying from PM or Luganville/Wanpuko. Taking PM is the highest IJN priority in the early months of the long campaigns. If you wait till you get around to it later, the invasion becomes very iffy, once the Allied LBA builds up.

(in reply to redman1)
Post #: 11
RE: Port Moresby - 3/15/2004 9:30:56 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I concur bilbow - B-17s, once up to strength, will really ruin your day as the IJN. They'll decimate any supply you have at any forward bases... I think the IJN must capture, then lightly garrison PM - make the Allies pay to get it back.

As the Allies, I never heavily garrison PM unless I'm playing the AI. A decent PBEM opponent will always get PM with the 2nd and 38th Divs. I make the IJN fight for it, but try to preserve my forces - the air units especially. The idea is to bloody his nose, let him have PM, then shut the door and pound away with LBA...

_____________________________

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Post #: 12
RE: Port Moresby - 3/15/2004 11:46:44 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		In scens. #17 and #19 against a competent Japanese opponent, you will not be ablel to hold PM. With four to six BBs the Japanese will be able to close PM with bombardment attacks. It would come down to a carrier battle-generally when the Allies only have four carriers and have not replaced their compliments of devestators with avengers. At this stage, the Allies have to hope for a lucky carrier battle fight-where the odds do not favor them. It is an old gambling adage that you do not gamble more than you can afford to lose, and if the allied player loses 4 carriers in June of 1942, then the Japanese will march to PM and follow that up with a march down the Solomons chain.

That said, it is still worth fighting for PM to a point. Make the Japanese mount a major effort to take it. Your LBA and subs will sink some ships. Perhaps you might sneak a raiding surface force in as well. The goal is to attrit the Japanese and cause ship damage. You will eventually lose PM, but forcing the Japanese to fight for it will upset the Japanese timetable. Much of the Japanese infantry will need to go back to Truk for rest before the Japanese can mount a serious drive down the Solomons.

As the Americans, I do not risk my carriers in a major engagment with Japanese carriers until I have all six and until there are full compliments of avengers and F4Fs on all of them. "Fighting with devestators is like fighting with wooden rifles." The Japanese have to attack and are stronger. It is foolish to risk you carriers in action so far from a safe base. In my book, that means the PM is expendable.

_____________________________

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(in reply to madflava13)
Post #: 13
RE: Port Moresby - 3/16/2004 2:20:39 AM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
It is foolish to risk you carriers in action so far from a safe base. In my book, that means the PM is expendable.


Well that is a general axiom of war. Is winning the battle going to cost you more than losing it?

To paraphrase Sun Tzu, there are two conditions to fighting a battle:
1. You need to fight it
2. You can win it.

If you can win a battle, but you don't need to (i.e. victory will not really have any positive impact on the greater strategy), then to engage in that conflict is a waste of your resources, and while victory may have no positive impact, it might have an impact (won the battle, lost the war).

Similarly, if you need to win it, but cannot, well... then you are screwed.

So you fight battles that mean something to the greater strategy. Particularly in UV where your resources are limited, and unnecessary risks can cost you the entire campaign.

In the case of Port Morseby it basically means you do not fight for it... per se. Instead what you want to do is put adequate resources into it that means the IJN should consider whether they need to take it. If the IJN really want it, they can have it, to adequtely defend it to stop them would mean that Townsville, Brisbane, and Noumea would be left vulnerable, and that is unacceptable (to paraphrase a book, these are 'Bases Which Must Be Defended').

Instead, what you want to do is make it so that either they take it, and spend enough resources doing it that you will have success in the greater operation, or they leave it alone, in which case you make sure it is a serious thorn in their side. In either case, the resources you devote to it are either ones you can extract quickly if/ when things go south, or are expendable.

This is not even remotely unknown in military history. In fact largely that is the purpose of fortifications in modern war. A fort cannot hold against modern weapons, if you want to reduce it, you will. But the problem is, you will have to pay for it in men, material, and time, probably more than it is worth (unless you use a nuke of course, but that is a different issue). But if you don't, it will be a base of operations from which you will be at least harrassed, and at worst flanked or entrapped.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 14
RE: Port Moresby - 3/17/2004 3:03:38 AM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Ive managed to do it several times, even in scen 19, but only by gambling and being set to have fairly heavy losses, it all depends on who I am playing against


quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

Is there any chance for the allies to hold port moresby against a human opponent who decides to make that base his main objective (like using 2nd and 38th Division to go in including all carriers available at that time)?


Sven

quote:


bilbow
Matrix Hero




Posts: 290
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Columbus OH
Status: online RE: Port Moresby (in reply to redman1)




quote:

ORIGINAL: redman1

More and more I'm coming to the belief that PM is just not worth devoting a lot of resources to capturing early on for the Japanese player. It's a resource drain, both in capturing it and in holding it and keeping it supplied. It's also merely an annoyance to you if the Allies have it early on, and it of course forces them to supply it, which invites units up north for you to target from Buna and other places. I'd rather devote my efforts to Lunga and points south, and gobble up PM when pressure in other parts of the theater forces the allies to divert resources there.


Diagree completely with you on this. If the Allies control PM, then you will have no secure base south of Truk, and Truk is too far away from witch to respond to Allied moves. Every one of the IJN bases is within range of B17s flying from PM or Luganville/Wanpuko. Taking PM is the highest IJN priority in the early months of the long campaigns. If you wait till you get around to it later, the invasion becomes very iffy, once the Allied LBA builds up.

3/16/2004 5:59:13 AM Report Abuse | ID: 571687


_____________________________

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RE: Port Moresby - 3/17/2004 3:18:49 AM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
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From: Concord NH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

Ive managed to do it several times, even in scen 19, but only by gambling and being set to have fairly heavy losses, it all depends on who I am playing against




Agree with DM here. I't's possible for the allies to hold PM by moving most of the Aussies to PM and being prepared to fight a carrier battle. If you win the carrier battle the IJN will have to disengage, leaving you with PM and Oz secure. Of course if you lose the carrier battle, get your beach defenses in Townsville ready. Very risky since at this point the IJN carriers are better, but if you win it you will more than likely win the game.

(in reply to DoomedMantis)
Post #: 16
RE: Port Moresby - 3/17/2004 11:50:32 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

Is there any chance for the allies to hold port moresby against a human opponent who decides to make that base his main objective (like using 2nd and 38th Division to go in including all carriers available at that time)?

Sven


IMHO, in Scen#19 against good human opponent there is _NO_ chance of holding Port Moresby (and many other bases as well).

In fact holding Port Moresby (and committing forces there) and then loosing it is almost sure way to loose campaign game very very quickly!

Most of very good and experienced PBEM players evacuate almost everything except few crucial bases when they play as Allies...


Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 17
RE: Port Moresby - 3/17/2004 3:23:59 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		You need both skill and luck - the latter is usually dependent on the first

I've been able to hold PM in a scen 17 against a few very able players. As mentioned
earlier, it all depends on how the cv battles in the Coral Sea goes.

Can't really said that I've even tried to hold it in scen 19. Putting in resources here means
opening other doors that very well might stay open until 1/1-43

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Post #: 18
RE: Port Moresby - 3/17/2004 9:59:16 PM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Which generally means that unless you are a gambler, or very good, you don't want to put too many resources into PM.

I still don't think you want to abandon it and make it so the Japanese can try to stroll in unopposed (if they want it, make them pay for it), but don't pour troops and aircraft and ships into its defense.

Unless you are a gambler, and/ or can force a decisive battle here on your terms.

I think scenario 17 is probably doable (it was historically after all), but scenario 19 is another matter.

I'll get to find out right away myself!

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 19
RE: Port Moresby - 3/18/2004 1:24:27 AM   
Hoplosternum


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline 		I like all this fighting talk But seriously holding PM and taking on the IJN at the height of their powers? ? I'm impressed

Yes there is a gap when the US fighters upgrade and the extra IJN CVs have not arrived in late May. But who is going to attack PM during that window? It's either before or after. As the allies you can certainly try a Coral Sea before your fighters upgrade (any IJN player is likely to take you on) or fight a bigger CV battle in late June/July when the IJN has 6+ CVs and you have less, no AA upgrades and few if any Avengers (so your short range Devestators sit it out). Good luck Why fight the most important battle when the enemy holds all the cards?

Quite frankly if you lose that CV battle badly you have all but lost the game. CVs lost later on (by either side) may not decide the game but losing that credible threat early can be disaterous. LBA just isn't strong enough to make up for it in July. With PM stuffed with troops Australia is vulnerable. Once you are well behind in CVs troop transfers between New Caladonia and Australia are suicidal. Or between PM and Australia. Especially in scenario 19 the Japanese can land a lot of troops in summer '42. If you cannot get the 50% to stop them in Oz you are dead as he will take Brisbane and then you have lost half your land reinforcements. The Australian bases are too far apart to mutually support each other with fighter cover and are just a single big CV raid or large bombardment TF strike from closure.

I hate to put a downer on all this fighting talk but PM is a dangerous lure for the unwary allies. It is something the IJN really wants because if you have it he may lose quickly. But it has little value to the allies in mid '42. Even if you bluff him or drive him off supplying it is a nightmare until your air and sea power have grown. Even a wounded IJN can mount reasonably safe bombardment and night bombing raids. Supplies will be hard to keep. The IJN has to keep hitting it or it's game over. It's isolated nature makes it hard for Japan to defend later too. You will return

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 20
RE: Port Moresby - 3/18/2004 2:32:07 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Well, for reasons already expressed, I agree with only some of this.

You emphasize that a "Coral Sea" carrier battle will likely be disastrous for the Allies. I don't argue with that one bit. I never seek the early May carrier battle (but look for a chance to put my surface forces to work). At the same time, in sc. 17, the Japanese just don't have the strength to take Port Moresby at the beginning. An amphibious landing with the weak ground forces available then will meet, when I play, stiffened elements of New Guinea Force and 7 Aus Div, backed up with LBA flying anti-shipping missions at 1,000 feet. Betty and Nell are not strong enough to shut down Port Moresby (particularly when AA has been shipped across by FT). The carnage on the beach can be remarkable (and very disheartening to the overextended opponent).

Sc. 19, as I mentioned before, is a different situation, involving maximum commitment of Japanese forces. Still, PM has to be costly. If not, Japanese ambitions in Australia are even harder to counter, and you have not bought the time you need for your reinforcements to start arriving in significant numbers.

Lastly, you seem to assume perfect play by the Japanese player. I have found the Japanese side in UV to be a difficult bunch of cats to herd. Their units are not always suitable to the task assigned, and the logistical, support, and base unit shuffle is a hard thing to manage, and threatens on almost every turn to become a miasma of sh1t.

UV is unforgiving of the Japanese side on the strategic level (please don't remind me of my comments about how over-represented Japanese military capabilities are tactically). As far as I am concerned, a good Allied player will make you cross all the "Ts" and dot all the "Is" if you hope to have a chance to win. Sc. 19 is, obviously, weighted to give the Japanese every opportunity at victory. When I play as the Allies, I try to chip away at that weight from the very outset, hoping to stunt the growth of the Emperor's holdings.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Hoplosternum)
Post #: 21
RE: Port Moresby - 3/18/2004 3:10:38 PM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I never said that I risked my carriers, but for example one ploy I use, and only if the Jap Cv's arent around is to try to time 2-3 surface TF's to hit at the same time as his bombardments go in. Sure you can get hurt, but mostly in terms of damaged ships and not sunk ones. If he doesnt see them coming you can hurt him bad, and make him think twice about going back, and it doesnt take much to put the IJN off, a few lost CA's and CL's, and all of a sudden his BB have no real escorts (and usually not enough to go around at this early stage as well).

One thing I must say, is that the times that I have kept hold of PM it has been a real pain to supply.

_____________________________

I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.

- Shakespeare

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 22
RE: Port Moresby - 3/18/2004 10:35:13 PM   
neuromancer


Posts: 627
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Canada
Status: offline 		PM is always a pain to keep supplied, even without the IJN working hard to interdict it. I'm playing a game against the computer where I'm doing pretty well (my carriers aren't so well off however), and keeping PM 'in the white' supply wise is a real pain. Amd every now and then he pastes some of my shipping just to make it harder.


I too appreciate this discussion as it is definitely going to be of value in my PBEM that just started.

(in reply to DoomedMantis)
Post #: 23
RE: Port Moresby - 3/18/2004 10:57:39 PM   
Shadow of the Condor

 

Posts: 394
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Chicago
Status: offline 		Having read through the thread, I figured I would throw my two cents in - from a purely Allied point of view.

I don't look at the issue of whether or not PM "could" be held, as opposed to why hold it at all. Let the IJN player have it. Even in #17. Once the IJN takes the base (preferrably an abandoned base) the next question is "now what"? Keeping the Allied forces limited to Brisbane, RH, TV, and CT eliminates any supply issues, eliminates any troop transport issues, eliminates any malaria issues, etc. AKA the "bravely run away" strategy, but those benefits are hard to ignore. Not the least of which is not fighting a battle when the odds are against you, your carriers can then scoot to PH for their AA upgrade while the IJN player must keep his in the area, ever so slowly (but ever so steadily) gaining SYS damage as time marches on.

Early in the game the Allies have the better subs. Those are probably the only offensive moves I feel comfortable making before Oct/Nov 42.

It isn't flashy, and perhaps looked down on, but, IMHO, the goal is to make it to Dec 43, not to hold PM in Dec 42.

(in reply to neuromancer)
Post #: 24
RE: Port Moresby - 3/19/2004 12:47:58 AM   
redman1

 

Posts: 110
Joined: 2/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

Ive managed to do it several times, even in scen 19, but only by gambling and being set to have fairly heavy losses, it all depends on who I am playing against


quote:

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

Is there any chance for the allies to hold port moresby against a human opponent who decides to make that base his main objective (like using 2nd and 38th Division to go in including all carriers available at that time)?


Sven

quote:


bilbow
Matrix Hero




Posts: 290
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Columbus OH
Status: online RE: Port Moresby (in reply to redman1)




quote:

ORIGINAL: redman1

More and more I'm coming to the belief that PM is just not worth devoting a lot of resources to capturing early on for the Japanese player. It's a resource drain, both in capturing it and in holding it and keeping it supplied. It's also merely an annoyance to you if the Allies have it early on, and it of course forces them to supply it, which invites units up north for you to target from Buna and other places. I'd rather devote my efforts to Lunga and points south, and gobble up PM when pressure in other parts of the theater forces the allies to divert resources there.


quote:

Diagree completely with you on this. If the Allies control PM, then you will have no secure base south of Truk, and Truk is too far away from witch to respond to Allied moves. Every one of the IJN bases is within range of B17s flying from PM or Luganville/Wanpuko. Taking PM is the highest IJN priority in the early months of the long campaigns. If you wait till you get around to it later, the invasion becomes very iffy, once the Allied LBA builds up.

3/16/2004 5:59:13 AM Report Abuse | ID: 571687

But the IJN is then free to go to Lunga, the New Hebrides and even Noumea. You can hold and supply all of those areas while the Allies hold PM. Furthermore, securing the Solomon Sea becomes less of an issue because you can run supply convoys east of the Solomons. And all of this can occur while your night bombing missions and sweeps and AAA wear down the PM air anyway.

I grant you that it's an unconventional approach, but it's certainly workable.

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Post #: 25
RE: Port Moresby - 3/19/2004 4:24:30 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		In my game against the AI, I keep PM supplied by airlifts alone. ok, those guys don't look to good, but they still are up to strength and capable of bringing in enough to even expand the base and to supply Wau by air (will become the base of one Aus Div later on, those are my plans at least now).
haven't send any additional ground forces there. of course, against a human opponent, this won't work, I know...
but against the AI, perfect. otherwise, except for my subs, I stay back until the beginning of 1943. wonder what will happen then

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Post #: 26
RE: Port Moresby - 4/4/2004 8:21:29 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		I have a question concerning base initialization. Which is better Noumea or Brisbane? Or does it depend on what scenario you are playing?

< Message edited by Halsey -- 4/4/2004 1:03:13 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Port Moresby - 4/4/2004 5:45:18 PM   
Rendova


Posts: 405
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		Base initilization only matters for what base is selected at the start of the turn, so it has no effect on game play (as I understand it)

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Post #: 28
RE: Port Moresby - 4/4/2004 7:54:05 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		So the base selected is where the turn starts at, and has no effect on reinforcements. Thanks.

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Post #: 29
RE: Port Moresby - 4/4/2004 8:38:02 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		Just as an aside, I always initialize at Noumea. I run through a checklist for all my turns and I start at Noumea/Brisbane and work my way north... Of course even with a routine like that I still manage to forget something now and again - it just sucks when its the CAP levels on my CVs!

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Post #: 30
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