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In-turn And end of Turn saves!

 
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In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 7/30/2003 1:14:40 AM   
Al Boone

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 7/27/2000
From: Cobleskill, New York, USA
Status: offline 		Please reinstall this feature for all Megacampaigns. I agree with others that this is the worst feature of MegaCampaigns. If I am playing solitaire, there is no reason to play computer police with me. There are just to many variables that can distract one during a long game turn. It would be even acceptable to lock out this feature for PBM or Head to Head, although an end of turn save seems to be desirable even here. Even a return to beginning of turn feature would be better. Things are very awkward the way game saves are regulated now. Hopefully this would help the apparent problems with scoring.
Post #: 1
- 7/30/2003 3:54:25 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		Motion Seconded!

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Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 2
- 7/30/2003 5:01:08 AM   
tmac

 

Posts: 160
Joined: 4/16/2003
From: Syracuse (Home of 2003 NCAA Basketball Champs) NY
Status: offline 		It would be nice

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 3
In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 8/17/2003 8:20:32 AM   
simulacrum

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]It would be nice[/QUOTE]

"Nice" is an understatement. Intra-turn/inter-turn saves would make MCs eminently more playable.

_____________________________

"Generals and Admirals win high renown for the military achievements of their men, but personal deeds of heroism by simple privates or subalterns are rarely recorded." Albert Lawson, "War Anecdotes and Incidents of Army Life" (Cincinnati: Beasley, 1888)

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 4
much simply - 8/18/2003 7:48:49 PM   
said46

 

Posts: 4
Joined: 10/24/2002
Status: offline 		1. SAVE
press "Quit", press Alt-Tab, copy 3 files from ...\Megacam\save\*.* to your directory, press Alt-Tab, load save...

2. LOAD
press "Quit", press Alt-Tab, copy files from your directory to ...\Megacam\save\ , press Alt-Tab, load save...

So possible do anytime although how many times.

Excuse me for bad english.

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 5
Re: much simply - 8/21/2003 12:35:10 AM   
soren

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/21/2003
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by said46
[B]1. SAVE
press "Quit", press Alt-Tab, copy 3 files from ...\Megacam\save\*.* to your directory, press Alt-Tab, load save...

2. LOAD
press "Quit", press Alt-Tab, copy files from your directory to ...\Megacam\save\ , press Alt-Tab, load save...

So possible do anytime although how many times.

Excuse me for bad english. [/B][/QUOTE]

this one works perfect. No need to complain.
It takes only 5 seconds

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 6
- 8/21/2003 1:09:06 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		And I suppose you two know exactly when your system is going to crash so that you can do this simple 5 second procedure immediately before your crash. :rolleyes:

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 7
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/24/2004 12:59:36 PM   
lexxan


Posts: 21
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		I agree; maybe an option/preference like the "Ironman-mod" used in other type of games (basically the present system in the megacampaign) would be a wise solution. I still make it with the classic alt-ctrl-del (and then re-open the program restarting from the last save) but I would prefer to avoid it. I'm always playing the solitarie mod so makes no sense , in my opinion, the present system and sometimes makes me upset . Why do that then? Does somebody know the reasons behind this choice?

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 8
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/24/2004 8:42:32 PM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		As project coordinator for three of the mega campaigns, I wish to clarify this matter.

During the first MC we did, Rommel in North Africa, I approached the programmer of the Mega Campaign system, Mr. Michael Wood.

I felt that saves per turn was an option that should be added. He disagreed. His reasoning was that the player was committed. If he screwed up, he should suffer the consequences of a bad decision.

In other words, saving per turn was not really a fair way to play. In spite of my arguments to the contrary, Michael, as the author of the system, felt very strongly that this was how it should be. And so it was...and is.

Now, with the problem of a possible crash and the loss of part of a scenario or an entire scenario being skipped, saving per turn is still a viable issue.

Unfortunately, I do not have the expertise to do that. I am not a programmer. Michael Wood has moved on...way on to another gaming company and other projects. So having him change this is not a possibility.

Soren's workaround is a good one. It is the best I've seen yet. This can work for multiple saves too as long as they are moved out of the save directory to another spot. I do that sometimes.

No, one cannot predict a crash. So just how vital are the saves would depend on how much you are willing to take the time to do them.

I wish the feature were in the game. I really do. But that is the reason that it is not. And without being a mind reader, I don't think Mr. Wood would want it changed.

Not much help, but a little understanding perhaps....WB

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to lexxan)
Post #: 9
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/25/2004 10:36:09 AM   
lexxan


Posts: 21
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you very much for the explanation, Bill . Thank you also very much for making these masterpieces of computer strtegy games. I just have a (new) dream: SPWAW with yearly new MCs (possibly made by you) and with a brand new graphic plus a good new engine. Sometimes the dreams come true, or not?

(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 10
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/25/2004 4:32:09 PM   
Alexandra


Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		Well, I happen to agree with Michael Woods argument. The MCs are supposed to be the toughest campaing challenges in Sp: Waw. Therefore, there should not be an in turn save. I'd like to see it removed all together, as there's really no need for it.

All an in turn save lets one do is save prior to moving a unit and then load if things don't go well. As such, it has no place in an MC. Yes, I know the argument "But, with no in turn save, I can't save if I have to leave the PC before finishing the turn." To which I counter "If you don't have time to play the turn, then don't start it."

Besides, you can save the MC as often as you like, by exiting it. When you exit, it gets saved. Yes, it takes a little longer to do it that way, if you wanna save before you move each unit, but it can be done, at any time, including at turn end. It's just a more bulky procedure, but, it's there, if you really must have it.

Alex

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(in reply to lexxan)
Post #: 11
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/25/2004 6:28:16 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline 		I guess I look at it from the point of view that I don't need "Big Brother" telling me how to play a solitaire game. Personally, I only backup at the beginning of every other battle or so, BUT I really find it annoying when someone tries to impose their own views on how a game should be played.

Mr. Wood's way of thinking is rather fascist, my way is libertarian.

There is a workaround to the problem, and that is just the point! If there is a workaround, the ones who want to use the feature for "evil" will do so anyway, and those who want to use it for "good" are given more hoops to jump through than need be.

Thanks to WB for at least explaining the reason so I can direct my ire to the right person.

Bob

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to Alexandra)
Post #: 12
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/25/2004 8:57:03 PM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		RB is so gentle



Gentle as killing flys with a mallet

(in reply to rbrunsman)
Post #: 13
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/26/2004 6:05:44 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline



_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

(in reply to VikingNo2)
Post #: 14
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/27/2004 9:36:19 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Lexxan! Thank you. A most encouraging and gratifying note from you. It means a lot to me and to EVERY member of the various teams that worked with me on these three.

It was a united effort all the way. Some did so much. Others could not. Everyone did what they could. I've learned a new respect for those in this hobby by those who have worked with me and through the forums with the opportunity to know people like you.

RB, I can understnand your frustration, but you express it very good naturedly and that is how to do it.

War is hell. So is a mega-campaign...but we still love to play 'em, don't we? I know I do. Plus the pics, the articles; all of it designed to give us the feel of what is happening.

WB

Wild Bill

< Message edited by Wild Bill -- 2/27/2004 7:40:47 AM >

_____________________________


In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to rbrunsman)
Post #: 15
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 2/27/2004 10:31:22 AM   
lexxan


Posts: 21
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		Being, unfortunately, near the 40s I had followed the computer gaming since its real beginning. The 1st real love was a game named "Bliztkrieg!" that is, in practics, SPWAW in its core and primitive form; since then I played hundreds games with ever growing graphics and special effects but... the playability, the game balance were not following the same trend. The result is that in my hard disks there is always a place for SPWAW/MC while games like Blitzkrieg (the new one from the russian Nival) comes and go in a week because the graphic is wonderful (For SPWAW would be great!) but there is little fun having no real "Gaming-soul" (the heart-beating before a Para-lunch or before the lunch of a major offensive ecc...) inside.It is like a stupid gorgeus woman. Spwaw is just the opposite, A charming ugly lady. I want to have a charming gorgeus woman!
I wanted to write my "Devotion" to you and yr companions because I (think to) know the creative people absorb new energies from their fans, like a symbiosis; it doesn't matter if you makes books, paint or computer games!

Thanks to you Bill (and yr team).

(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 16
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 3/6/2004 3:44:30 PM   
John David


Posts: 373
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: Montreal, Quebec
Status: offline 		I wish that you could have in game saves as well as most here, but the most frustrating thing is that when the game crashes,and it does, if you've played an hour or more, you loose all the turns from the start of your session!

If I had a choice, I would compromise and want the game to self save at the end of each turn. I know you can do it yourself by jumping in and out of the game after every turn, but in the heat of battle when your really concentrating and up to your neck in it, I don't always remember to "take a breath!".

In the end, it's up to me to remember to save after a few turns. I've played long enough to know better, but occasionally I forget.
So be it. I love this game and the MC's too much to let it bother me!

JD

_____________________________

The only thing good about war, is it's ending!


(in reply to lexxan)
Post #: 17
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 3/13/2004 5:08:22 PM   
huhrlass

 

Posts: 62
Joined: 12/16/2001
From: New York
Status: offline 		I agree with the save feature, i was playing a mega campaign and i received and error loading one of the scenarios and then the game was gone after two months of playing

(in reply to Al Boone)
Post #: 18
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 3/13/2004 9:02:11 PM   
mine_field


Posts: 95
Joined: 3/10/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline 		It would be possible to make a third-party program to implement everything you guys are wishing for. This would need a programmer of course willing to put in the time. A third party program could be started before the game that responds to a hotkey (one not used by SP:WAW) and run in the background. It could then save the working game files and manage those files for you. It shouldn't be a problem for it to load for you as well (maybe a protection fault if you are actually still looking at your units), since you guys indicate you are able to copy, move, overwrite files while the game is running in the background.
Programming is my weak subject so it would be a big stretch for me. Not even sure the best language, probably visual basic since you are in a Windows environment.

< Message edited by mine_field -- 3/13/2004 2:05:17 PM >

(in reply to huhrlass)
Post #: 19
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 3/21/2004 3:50:52 AM   
simulacrum

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		The programming that gave us the clunky save system that reduces the utility of an otherwise great concept also gave us the lost leaders and lost turn-based scores bugs. The lost leaders issue compromises the otherwise engaging role playing effect. The lost scores problem compromises the fine work that went into the decision tree system. Better that programming should have compromised on the save function, and put the energy used in defending it into finding the bugs. Spent many hours on work-arounds, but finally gave them up as unacceptable, execerbated, in large part, by the save function. Haven't played an MC since. Many sincere thanks, and over $100 for Mega Campaigns, to Matrix for the gratis effort on SPWAW. Am more than impressed by the outstanding effort done by the MC development teams. However, as a paying customer, am legitimately unhappy with the programming that went into the MCs. Haven't committed to MCSE for this reason. If Matrix intends to produce more MCs for commercial release, the programming issues should be addressed.

_____________________________

"Generals and Admirals win high renown for the military achievements of their men, but personal deeds of heroism by simple privates or subalterns are rarely recorded." Albert Lawson, "War Anecdotes and Incidents of Army Life" (Cincinnati: Beasley, 1888)

(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 20
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 3/22/2004 11:04:41 PM   
lexxan


Posts: 21
Joined: 2/12/2004
Status: offline 		I agree with you 200%.

(in reply to simulacrum)
Post #: 21
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/4/2004 5:18:48 PM   
hellcat

 

Posts: 805
Joined: 3/25/2002
From: uk
Status: offline 		Having just started trying out the MCs I'm a bit horrified to learn I have one save for the entire campaign! You gotta be kidding right? So I came here and found this thread. It's true! one save

Mr. Michael Wood surely doesn't own the code he wrote and whether he would 'mind' if it was changed is irrelevant. He was a coder I assume either paid for his work on a commercial project or did it for free and in no way either 'owns' the code for the save or has any say in whether it gets changed.

I used to work QA and I'd classify this 'feature' as a bug of class B or C, if a crash occurs then it's A! So fix it.

So getting any replayability from the game with one save the answer is 'hey replay the whole campaign' after the good rbrunsman took 2 years to play it, replaying it say 4 ways is gonna take 8 years eh? And I'll have to write down each choice point as I go because I can't refer to any previous saves.

Now I know programmers hate going into someone else's code to fix something that's not their own and the headaches involved but that's no excuse in this case. In todays world of games that become brands and go through many versions and pass through many team's hands you can't apply that principle of coders only fixing their own code. It's outdated and commercially suicidal.

spwaw itself may be a free game and that let's you screw about with your promises and responsibilities but mcs are not and provide you with an obligation to customer satisfaction.

While it's not a bug as such, it's such an important issue that it would fall within the criteria for needing a fix.

I do of course mean no disrespect to Wild Bill. Matrix must surely have one programmer that can take care of this fix.

< Message edited by hellcat -- 6/4/2004 3:27:32 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/10/2004 12:09:08 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		I believe Matrix will fix this when hell freezes over. David Heath told me MG won't commit anyone to complete the small update needed for MCLV so there's no way this will be fixed. It looks to me Matrix is washing its hands of spwaw with the 8.2 version and that's going to be it.

(in reply to hellcat)
Post #: 23
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/11/2004 10:38:24 AM   
Anthony_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Status: offline 		OK - I have a little windows utility that will copy and preserve the latest MC save into a special location that I used for 18 months whilest playing MCNA and MCLV - it saved my bacon on several occasions. I will drag up the source code and send a new build within a few days

You leave the app running while SPWAW is being played - any time you want to save...

1. do a normal MC save/exit. Swap the 'MegaSaver' app in windows
2. Use the "Backup selected Game" button
3. Fill in the description box..
4. Swap back to SPWAW and reload MC

(Takes about 20sec, and keeps all the saves in dated order and has associated description)


  • Sample of tool in action is enclosed.
  • Allows as many saves as you want.
  • Saves are stored in a "Backup" folder in the MC/Save directory.


I assume there are no problems from MatrixGames people with this ?

Only problem is - Where to host the file ??




Attachment (1)

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 24
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/11/2004 10:53:17 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		You could attach it to your post, just rename the file from .zip to something else, like .txt. It should then be downloadable just remind people that they have to rename it back to zip.

Voriax

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Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!

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Post #: 25
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/11/2004 5:05:10 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthony

OK - I have a little windows utility that will copy and preserve the latest MC save into a special location that I used for 18 months whilest playing MCNA and MCLV - it saved my bacon on several occasions. I will drag up the source code and send a new build within a few days

I assume there are no problems from MatrixGames people with this ?

Only problem is - Where to host the file ??




Looks good, Anthony!

I look forward to trying it out. Let us know when you have it posted somewhere.

(in reply to Anthony_MatrixForum)
Post #: 26
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/11/2004 6:04:19 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthony

OK - I have a little windows utility that will copy and preserve the latest MC save into a special location that I used for 18 months whilest playing MCNA and MCLV - it saved my bacon on several occasions. I will drag up the source code and send a new build within a few days

You leave the app running while SPWAW is being played - any time you want to save...

1. do a normal MC save/exit. Swap the 'MegaSaver' app in windows

Go put it in The Depot. Bernie will be happy to.

http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/index.php
2. Use the "Backup selected Game" button
3. Fill in the description box..
4. Swap back to SPWAW and reload MC

(Takes about 20sec, and keeps all the saves in dated order and has associated description)


  • Sample of tool in action is enclosed.
  • Allows as many saves as you want.
  • Saves are stored in a "Backup" folder in the MC/Save directory.


I assume there are no problems from MatrixGames people with this ?

Only problem is - Where to host the file ??






Go put it over at the Depot.

http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/index.php

< Message edited by Jim1954 -- 6/11/2004 10:07:36 AM >

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Jim1954
KMC/T

(in reply to Anthony_MatrixForum)
Post #: 27
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/15/2004 3:46:26 AM   
Anthony_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Melbourne, Vic, Australia
Status: offline 		OK - uploaded to the Depot

http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1675

Any comments welcome

Anthony

(in reply to Jim1954)
Post #: 28
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 6/15/2004 8:02:33 PM   
IBTyrone


Posts: 432
Joined: 7/29/2003
From: Kentucky, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthony

OK - uploaded to the Depot

http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1675

Any comments welcome

Anthony


Thanks, Anthony. I don't own any megacampaigns yet (I'm waiting for the General's Edition) but when I do, I'll be sure to try it out.

Thanks again for posting it for the rest of us.

(in reply to Anthony_MatrixForum)
Post #: 29
RE: In-turn And end of Turn saves! - 8/18/2004 2:43:32 PM   
Muzrub


Posts: 1780
Joined: 2/23/2001
From: Australia, Queensland, Gold coast
Status: offline
quote:

OK - uploaded to the Depot

http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1675

Any comments welcome

Anthony


Dude this rocks.............

I'm only on the second battle of MCLV...
Might just start again!

It should be cool to try different options.

_____________________________

Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over Iraq, and i have seen
Things are not what they seem.


Matrix Axis of Evil

(in reply to IBTyrone)
Post #: 30
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