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Question Italian German cooperation - 10/6/2001 3:51:00 PM   
sebagonzalez

 

Posts: 156
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Uruguay
Status: offline 		Last night i was playing a game with a british guy, and we decided to play in Nrth africa. I asked him to let me make a combined Italian german army to make it more real, so he let me use 1/3 of my points (all this in 1941). I had 1100 points so i decided to buy (obviously) 88´s. But in order to be fair and dont buy more german equipment than 1/3 of my points, i decided to buy italian Heavy Trucks to carry them. Nearly the end of the game we had a dispute about how realistic can be Italian heavy trucks carrying 88´s (6 of them).
I dont fill this so strange, specially in a small sector of a battle, when u have to take and use whathever, u r not going to let your 88´s in the desert cause u dont have German trucks, while u have 6 Italian empty heavy truck in front of them. and also, when the Germans where running from Africa to Tunicia they used plenty of italian transport for themselves. I dont think a german commander would not use Italian trucks to carry it´s 88´s just cause the trucks were of the DUCE. What u think about this guys? Agree with me or not?, specially in a small battle, i dont mean a full Korps. (just 6)

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Post #: 1
- 10/6/2001 5:15:00 PM   
varjager

 

Posts: 358
Joined: 3/25/2000
From: sweden
Status: offline 		Any commander would have used the Italian truck.
I think that in the war in NA i dont think the germans said-Hey wait,we cant take our guns to this battle in Italian truck! I agree that the use of trucks was right!

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(in reply to sebagonzalez)
Post #: 2
- 10/7/2001 3:57:00 AM   
IKerensky

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/7/2001
Status: offline 		Definitly yes, they can even more probably have been English or Aussie truck BTW. In desert warfare everything that can drive is fair game.

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Post #: 3
- 10/7/2001 6:44:00 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		sebagonzalez: An interesting dilemma. I recall that in NAfrica many historians said that the Italians' transport was stolen in order to get German troops out firstly, followed by the Italians. I know your opponent must be looking at this from the purchasing angle, since those points could've soaked up more German points if the transport had to be German. On the other hand, what I find interesting here is whether it worked well for you or not, you actually pulled something of a Rommel type trick. Rommel had disguised things to make it look as though they had a huge tank force. Well, if you were transporting 88s in Italian transport, ordinarily nobody would think of stopping Italian traqnsport carrying 88s, so they probqably wouldn't fire on them. This would really frustrate the Brit commander if you also were using German trucks to transport Italian units. What would happen is if he saw both sets of trucks and knew the sort of trucks that would ordinarily transport 88s, he would target those German trucks, so that in reality he might be thinking he was targeting 88 laden trucks, when in fact he would possibly be targeting some relatively unimportant Italian units in them. I know buying German heavy trucks would've defeated why you bought Italian trucks in the first place, but if you had bought German trucks too, and did what I described, it sure would be a cute little trick.

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Post #: 4
- 10/7/2001 9:04:00 AM   
sebagonzalez

 

Posts: 156
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Uruguay
Status: offline 		Actually i just did it cause i had to be fair and use just 1/3 of my points for german equipment, but this new angle u introduced is excellent, and true (although i didnt thought about it). This mix of german units in Italian transports is a good trick i will try to use next time. Thks for this point of view.

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Mierda....y ahora...que corno hago?

(in reply to sebagonzalez)
Post #: 5
- 10/7/2001 10:13:00 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		It was my belief this was very common in that theatre!..Rommel did things like national integration intentionally to keep his lines strong.This is part of the "fog of war"...

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Post #: 6
- 10/8/2001 1:35:00 PM   
K G von Martinez

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 5/15/2001
From: Hannover, Germany
Status: offline 		But in reality the trick mentioned wouldn't have worked: the 88 were not loaded but towed and so you could have seen they are an interesting target even with Italian trucks towing!

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Post #: 7
- 10/8/2001 3:18:00 PM   
rjmsx

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 8/6/2001
From: Best, Netherlands
Status: offline 		It would be more likely that the Germans would use captured British transports. I am currently reading the book "The Rommel Papers". According to Rommel during his advance to Al Alamein more than 80% of his transports were captured.

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Post #: 8
- 10/8/2001 5:45:00 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		kgvm: True, assuming they could make the gun out, which may not be so easy with the truck in front kicking up dust, (the use of dust being another trick played by both sides as well). OTOH, the Italians had a 90mm AA, which didn't work as well as the German one, and my guess is they weren't used in the AT role very much, so that the illusion would still be complete, since the British wouldn't consider the 90mm Italian gun the same threat the 88 was, and would likely respond to it as you would respond to an AA threat, and not an AT threat. Your point is good to bring out something of a fault of the game, however, because while it's not always possible to know what's being towed/carried, it is possible. I seem to recall the game used to always show enemy loads, but then that's just as unrealistic as the enemy never spotting the load. It would probably be best applied as a range thing. Within certain ranges, loads can clearly be made out, and further back not so much so. Of course spotting towed units should be easier than seeing loaded units.

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Post #: 9
- 10/19/2001 7:00:00 PM   
K G von Martinez

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 5/15/2001
From: Hannover, Germany
Status: offline 		Charles,
as long as you have open trucks you are right and it could be a nice feature. But if I look at the few pictures of trucks in WWII I have in my books most of them are closed or sheltered with awnings spread and you have the possibility to see what is inside only if you're looking from behind. So in my opinion it seems the better solution not to know at all if there is something or somebody in the truck. Of course you should be able to see if there is something behind the truck, at least if you are not looking from straight ahead .

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Post #: 10
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