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What "noobs" should know about transport... - 10/21/2003 1:17:50 AM

Vathailos

Posts: 346
Joined: 5/13/2003
From: In a van, down by the river.
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I actually fall into that category, with regard to PBEM anyway. And here's something I learned recently, and if I could remember who to give the credit to, I'd cite them here (could it have been Challenge?, not sure).

What support vehicles can carry is important to know, for many reasons. If you have very heavy AA/AT guns, don't expect to tow them with medium trucks or your standard HT. That's a given, but here's what I didn't know.

The first number it it's "Carry Capacity" block is the size units it can carry, sort of. What I mean by that is if the carry capacity for a truck is 112, it is able to carry (tow) class "1" guns, as well as 12 men. Example, it could tow a 28mm German AT gun, plus 8 more troops (Engineers, Infantry, Scouts, whatever). It could also carry 2 X 120mm mortar teams (of 6 men each). What it can't carry is an 88mm Flak, even though the gun only has a crew of 11. Why? Because the 88 is a "size 2". You'll need a heavy truck (Bues Nag for example) to tow that.

One thing I didn't realize until now is that a SkdFz 7 for example can tow class 2 guns and can hold up to 18 personnel. If the gun crew has 11 men, you have 7 more seats. I only share this to help you get the max out of your carrying capacity.

Now, one confusing area for me (still) is the size factor. The SO Yag-6 for example is a MOTHER of a huge truck with a 233 carry capacity and a weight of 230. Which technically means it can carry itself, except that it's size "4". I've heard veterans here talk about evacuating immobilized MBTs from the battlefield using the YaG-6. Example, IS-1, weight 230 but size 4 can be picked up/carried by a YaG-6?

It might be a case of Small/Medium = Size 1 for hauling purposes, Large = Size 2 and nothing else follows. Only two size classes for hauling purposes. Is that the case?

And then there's the Barge Carrier question. Now, I know how to use them. They carry AFVs and the like, NOT troops. Troops have their own rubber rafts they'll carry when the time's right. Unless they're MC troops, can those be loaded on transports? I've never tried.

If you're looking for a detailed version of Barge usage, do a search in this forum. For a summary, remember they work "backward" of normal loading procedures. Barges "suck in" whatever it is they're loading. For example, to load Tank A onto Barge, park Tank A on a shore hex, move barge adjacent to Tank A, select Barge, click "load", then select the Tank to suck it up. Then simply run into a shore hex on the other side of/coast of the water area to unload the cargo.

If YaG-6's can indeed carry MBTs, would that be a nice deception plan or what? A column of trucks, easy pickins, right? So you run your light tanks up to shoot some fish in a barrel, only to have the Trucks dump their cargo and bam! :D

Post #: 1

- 10/21/2003 4:22:59 AM

Drescher

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Joined: 9/7/2003
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well thx for that kind of research . me didnt know the number thing but it sounds plausible to me . But i have a question belonging to this : what is then carrycapacity? for example the german SP Mortar 251/2 has a weight of 230 . so this is a real , lets say phisical number or weight or whatelse ? it doestn mean that it is class 2 plus 30 men , doesnt it?
BTW n1 with that tricky little plan , thank god the AI do not know that sort of tricks..... :rolleyes:

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- 10/23/2003 4:02:49 AM

Belisarius

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Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
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[QUOTE=Vathailos]If YaG-6's can indeed carry MBTs, would that be a nice deception plan or what? A column of trucks, easy pickins, right? So you run your light tanks up to shoot some fish in a barrel, only to have the Trucks dump their cargo and bam! :D[/QUOTE]

Vathailos, you are my hero!!

Made a quick check - no problem a YaG-6 has no difficulties picking up a T-34/85 (weight 228) and happily carry it across the battlefield and unload! :eek:

Now, there's Maskirovka for you! :D I suspect we'll see this in any upcoming AAR. "We killed a few Russian trucks and HOLY COW! Tanks everywhere!!" :D

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Post #: 3

Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 6:42:18 AM

mine_field

Posts: 95
Joined: 3/10/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

I'm new so I'll ask some questions and answer your questions.
I need some help with the abbreviations. I'm assuming the YaG-6 is just a nation's truck I haven't dealt with yet. Who uses it? MBT =? Medium Battle Tank? I need to look up barge carrier. The name is confusing. The picture is of a flat bed type truck. It isn't something used in water is it? You mention rubber raft. I have seen these once carried by a crew when they bailed. Not sure about that detail.
As per the manual, don't think of weight as one number but as two numbers. The 100's place represents bulk. It can have the value of 0 (or absent) which means it is just personal and it can fit in anything with a spare seat. A 1 in the 100's place means a light gun or something of the like that needs to be towed or otherwise accomodated. A 2 in the hundred's place means a large bulky object, such as a tank or one of those huge guns. Weight, of course, also has the tens and ones place. This is just the number of people the object represents. So if you are confused about weight, just take the number XYY and think of it as X and YY.
004, ok we just have 4 people to carry
101, ok we have something bulky that will fit behind this halftrack and one guy to ride inside.
212, we have this huge bulky object that comes with 12 people
Carry follows the same rules, only it represents what it can carry of course.

Weight and carry by no means represents some physical quantity.

< Message edited by mine_field -- 3/11/2004 3:07:39 PM >

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Is this like when a deer runs out in front of a car? Does the Sherman make some violent turn to avoid the lunatic, only to roll over or hit a tree?

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RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 6:45:48 AM

mine_field

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Joined: 3/10/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
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I don't think there are more than the three size classes, only personal, small objects, and large objects. A class 4 is not known to me. You should try loading the truck with another truck. It wouldn't be inaccurate. Big Rig engines often carry other Big Rig cabs if broken down.

Drescher, you are right. It is class 2 with 30 men attached.

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RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 3:17:11 PM

robot

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From: Covington Ky USA
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If you move infantry into a water hex they will pop a little rubber boat out. You dont have to put them on barges to get them across the river. Only mech stuff has to use a barge.

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RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 10:52:56 PM

mine_field

Posts: 95
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From: North Carolina, USA
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Thank you for this information regarding river crossings.
The problem I had in the scenario was that it was designed as follows:

MEN__|_____Water
_____|________________Victory Exit Hex for Infantry (shallow water)
MEN__|_____Landing Craft
_____|________________Victory Exit Hex for Ship (deep water)
MEN__| <Beach

The problem occurs when trying to get all those men into the landing craft. They can't go out to sea in the same hex so they must be pulled into the landing craft. You can only put one man in there at a time, so they effective get bottle-necked on the beach and get cut up by the Japanese.
I forget the exact name of the scenario, it was something like a terrible surprise or a well placed trap. However, the scenario's description didn't even go with the actual scenario, so I was quite surprised to find I wasn't even in the right theater of war and was trying to get documents (single capture victory hex) rather than deal with this trap thing.

< Message edited by mine_field -- 3/11/2004 3:56:00 PM >

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RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 11:06:47 PM

robot

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From: Covington Ky USA
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Sorry mine havnt played that one yet. Do you know who the scenerio designer is by any chance. If you do he might be able to tell you how it works.

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RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 11:12:23 PM

mine_field

Posts: 95
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From: North Carolina, USA
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I will go back and look for that scenario.
BTW, this is fun posting back and forth like this. A duel of postings if you will.

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Post #: 9

RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 11:19:46 PM

VikingNo2

Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline

Yag-6 is a Russian truck it can haul a tank but I'm not sure if its a bug or reality

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RE: Carry Cost / Weight Explained - 3/11/2004 11:24:32 PM

robot

Posts: 1438
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From: Covington Ky USA
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Besides that mine field you helped me get my 3rd star today. Thanks for that.

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Post #: 11

Yag-6 Truck - 3/12/2004 1:23:48 AM

mine_field

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Joined: 3/10/2004
From: North Carolina, USA
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Robot, you are welcome for the third star. Of course it was your own hard work, not mine.

I have tried to find out some information on this 'tank carrying' truck.

Source for following info:
Oldtimer gallery. Trucks. YaG-6

It was a 4x2 5-ton truck. It had a 73 hp engine, 6 cylinder. It was 6.5 m long, 2.5 m wide.
The platform for carrying is 3.78 m long by 2.33m wide.
It had a dry twin plate clutch with a ZiS-5 4 speed gearbox.
Suspension was with 2 longitudinal semielliptical springs in the front and the same in the back with extra springs there.

It is of my own opinion that this vehicle could not support or haul a tank. I would probably want to cross check this with other trucks that could haul a tank to see about the differences in suspension and hp.

From what I've read about tanks, there seems just not to be enough material in that truck to support the weight of the tank and then carry it.

< Message edited by mine_field -- 3/11/2004 6:28:03 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: Yag-6 Truck - 3/24/2004 11:41:05 PM

Dan Bozza

Posts: 800
Joined: 3/28/2001
From: Mount Tabor NJ USA
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It wouldn't have to physically carry the tank, just be able to pull it off the line, although the game would make the tank disappear as if it were actually loaded in the back. 73 HP doesn't sound like enough "oomph". The tank itself would have at least several hundred HP, no?

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RE: Yag-6 Truck - 3/25/2004 12:50:11 AM

mine_field

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From: North Carolina, USA
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Ok so if the tank isn't on the truck, then it is dragging it somehow? Is that what you mean by 'pulling it off the line'? If it is not supporting the weight of the tank, then I'm assuming the tank's tracks are in contact with the ground. If this is so, then the yag-6 truck is not only having to get that mass moving it also has to apply the force neccessary to move the tracks and whatever gearing / driveshafts that can't be disconnected inside the tank (does a tank have neutral?).

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Post #: 14

RE: Yag-6 Truck - 3/25/2004 1:16:59 AM

Belisarius

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From: Gothenburg, Sweden
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Anyway; here's a cheesy gametrick for y'all;

Get tanks stuck? No problem!

If you hit "F4" today, you can order a set of brand new YaG-6 trucks for all your transporting needs! It carries from the nimbest scout all the way up to your brand new IS-3 tank! Heavy? Don't think so! The YaG-6 carries anything anywhere! And since it's SP:WaW, you don't even have to worry about offroad breakdowns - in fact, your tank is more prone to break down in the terrain than your wheeled YaG-6 truck is! Don't hesitate! Order today!

But wait, there's more - if you order within this turn you'll get this brand new surprised look on your opponent's face - without extra charge!!!

Order today! Call 1-800-ILOVTRCKS and order your YaG-6 set today!

< Message edited by Belisarius -- 3/25/2004 12:20:36 AM >

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RE: Yag-6 Truck - 3/25/2004 10:17:40 PM

Dan Bozza

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Not an expert on the subject of combat vehicle recovery, I assume a disabled vehicle could be towed, especially if there wasn't a flatbed and crane available to physically carry the wreck off the battlefield. I am also assuming that most tanks have a neutral, since a good deal of time was spend idling, waiting for relocation orders, etc. when you were "on the line", and not engaged in actual combat. The time it took to restart the tank could mean death in an ambush situation. But again, I can't imagine 73 HP would be enough to carry or drag a vehicle that weighed 20+ tons. The T34/85 tank, for example, weighed 32,000 kg (34.48 tons) and had a 500HP engine.

< Message edited by Dan Bozza -- 3/25/2004 3:24:44 PM >

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RE: Yag-6 Truck - 3/27/2004 12:17:14 AM

Svennemir

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From: Denmark
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I think other tanks were often used to tow damaged tanks.

IIRC the YaG-6 truck can load *another* YaG-6 truck - and it still has space for a few soldiers as well. Now the question we all ask: "Can I load a squad into a YaG-6, then load the YaG-6 and a squad into another YaG-6 and so on, thereby moving a whole battallion in one truck?"

Alas, the answer is no. Although a loaded vehicle can be loaded into another vehicle, its cargo will take up space in the other vehicle. It could be very funny if possible, though.

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Post #: 17

RE: Yag-6 Truck - 3/27/2004 12:25:18 AM

minefield

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Well you can still load quite a few soldiers in there. doesn't it have a capacity for something like 55 men? I know this includes crews, but still!

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