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Barge Hubs - 3/26/2004 1:45:39 AM   
kvandoc

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 3/24/2004
Status: offline 		I seached the forums, but couldn't find an answer, so I pose this question.

What are the purpose of barge hubs? I think they supply isolated bases, but by making a site a barge hub, does that means it recieves the supplies, or gives them out?

I have a lack of clarity on this subject, so any information to help clarify would be great!

Thanks!!

Musicman
Post #: 1
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/26/2004 7:31:29 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		A barge hub is the only base from which barge TFs can be setup as routine convoys (computer controlled). It should have a large supply depot, but you will probably need to keep shipping supplies there as the barge TFs will be taking those supplies to more forward bases. It will need to be relatively close to the forward bases (6-12 hexes away) as barges do not have a lot of fuel.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to kvandoc)
Post #: 2
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/26/2004 10:43:16 AM   
LordHawke


Posts: 80
Joined: 2/12/2004
From: Singapore
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

A barge hub is the only base from which barge TFs can be setup as routine convoys (computer controlled). It should have a large supply depot, but you will probably need to keep shipping supplies there as the barge TFs will be taking those supplies to more forward bases. It will need to be relatively close to the forward bases (6-12 hexes away) as barges do not have a lot of fuel.


Not true, actually. Computer-controlled Barge TFs can be created anywhere to run to wherever. Reading the rulebook, it seems that Barge Hubs are supposed to be a player productivity feature. The idea is that you can leave Barges in the Barge Hub's port, and if the AI thinks that a base nearby is short of supply, it will automatically create a Barge TF, load it with supply and send it to the beleaguered outpost.

IMO, not very useful esp for grognards who like micromanaging every aspect of the game. Also, I find the AI rather untrustworthy sometimes.

_____________________________

Lord Hawke

Qui desiderat pacem, preparet bellum.
"He who desires peace, prepares for war."

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 3
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/26/2004 10:05:16 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

A barge hub is the only base from which barge TFs can be setup as routine convoys (computer controlled). It should have a large supply depot, but you will probably need to keep shipping supplies there as the barge TFs will be taking those supplies to more forward bases. It will need to be relatively close to the forward bases (6-12 hexes away) as barges do not have a lot of fuel.



Not true, actually. Computer-controlled Barge TFs can be created anywhere to run to wherever. Reading the rulebook, it seems that Barge Hubs are supposed to be a player productivity feature. The idea is that you can leave Barges in the Barge Hub's port, and if the AI thinks that a base nearby is short of supply, it will automatically create a Barge TF, load it with supply and send it to the beleaguered outpost.


Pardon me, but I merely wrote what I found in my v1.0 manual (maybe the info has been updated in a later version, but the v1.0 is the one I printed out when I bought the game):

"Once created, PT boats and barges act in all ways like all other ships, except that by using Barge Hubs the barge Task Forces can be set to Routine Convoy from the Barge Hub...

...Once a base is designated as a Barge Hub:

-any computer controlled Task Force containing only barges, and which starts a Resolution Phase in the Barge Hub hex, will be used by the computer to move supplies from the Barge Hub to nearby bases that need supplies."

It appears that you can set up barge TFs in other hexes, but, according to the v1.0 manual, you can only set up a Routine Convoy barge TF in a Barge Hub base. There is a difference between a Routine Convoy and a Constant Supply TF.

I agree with you that I don't trust the AI to make good decisions in this respect, but I fear that in WITP we will all be relying upon the Routine Convoy to a greater amount.

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 3/26/2004 8:07:16 PM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

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Post #: 4
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/28/2004 7:58:03 AM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Barges can only be created by transports with supplies with a destination of the barge hub.

As for barges forming there own TF's I havent seen it

Auto supply tfs (ones you set up and let the computer control) can be set from any base to any base, but only one per base

_____________________________

I shall make it a felony to drink small beer.

- Shakespeare

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Post #: 5
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/28/2004 1:29:57 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		Barges can be created by any transport TF which has been loaded at Truk, Noumea or Brisbane and which contain supplies. You can create the barges from those TFs wherever you want, but since barges have low endurance, it makes sense to do this close or at the hex from where you want to run the barges.

The type on convoys you can create with barges are similar to the normal transport TFs:

  • a) human controlled: you set the load and destination
  • b) computer controlled: computer-controlled transport TFs will do nothing unless they are given a destination - see c)
  • c) continuous supply: (CS:Base Name) computer controlled transport TFs which are given a destination will automatically load supplies or fuel at the home base and deliver it to the destination base, shuttling back and forth
  • d) routine convoy: computer-controlled transport TFs created and based at Truk, Noumea or Brisbane are labeled 'routine convoy'. They will automatically pick up supplies or fuel and deliver it to bases the AI thinks are in need of resupply. Only one routine convoy per destination base will be formed by the AI.


Now, barge hubs allow to run barge convoys operating like routine convoys from other bases than Truk,Noumea or Brisbane. E.g. designating Lunga as barge hub and placing a computer-controlled barge TF there will cause that barge TF to automatically resupply bases in the vicinity which the AI deems to be in need. It's a bit confusing that those barge TFs remain labelled 'computer controlled' and not 'routine convoy' or even better 'routine barge convoy'.

Personally, I don't use routine convoys or barge hubs because in my experience, the AI is very poor in selecting the target bases that are in need of resupply, and the trigger level is so low that usually a base's supply level has to be 'red' before a routine convoy or routine barge convoy will be sent by the AI. I prefer to set up all my transport and barge convoys on human control or 'continuous supply' for better C&C.

EDIT:
AFAIK, the AI will not form barges disbanded in the port of barge hubs into barge TFs even if nearby bases need supply. You have to create the barge TF yourself and place it under computer control with home port set to the barge hub.

Hope this help.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 3/28/2004 11:43:14 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 6
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/28/2004 8:05:38 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		Thanks, LST. Yours is the best explanation given so far. I have had little experience with routine convoys. Like you, I haven't been impressed with the AI's ability to recognize bases in need (but not dire need) of supply, so I have been manually controlling my barge TFs.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 7
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/28/2004 10:38:41 PM   
kvandoc

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 3/24/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the posts in regards to this topic so far!

Point of clarification:

Barge hubs are the locations of well supplied bases that are used to transport supplies to other forward bases. You need to get ships to the location of the Barge Hub in order to form a continious supply. Is that correct?

What ships do I use to make a continous supply to a location?

I have noticed some ships that have very low endurace and range. What are they best used for?

Thanks for all the help thus far. I am slowly grasping the concept, although I am unable to game for a week due to a busy schedule!!

Musicman

(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 8
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/29/2004 1:36:10 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		Barge hubs should be supply centers behind but near the front. Barges will be used to carry troops and/or supplies from these forward bases to the front bases. The idea is that the front bases usually will be threatened by the enemy (esp. by air), so it would be unwise to risk transport ships to supply them. APs need some time to unload and will be exposed to enemy actions, while barges have limited cargo capacity and will unload quickly. The lack of capacity is made up by sheer numbers. The loss of a few barges to enemy action doesn't weigh as much as the loss of one or several 'real' ships. Barges are also harder to spot by search planes than AP types.

Barges can reach bases up to six hexes away on a round-trip. If the destination base has fuel available to replenish the barges, then they can reach bases up to 12 hexes away.

Of course, the barge hub itself must be resupplied by regular transport TFs or be stockpiled well in advance of combat operations. To resupply the barge hub, you may set up a human controlled TF, or a 'continuous supply' convoy of AP and TK types by selecting the TF, settting the TF on computer control and set the destination to the barge hub.

A classic example for the Japanese side would be the situation were you hold Lunga, Tulagi and Irau. I would pick Lunga as forward base and barge hub since it can be built to an ample port size and allows to protect transport TFs with CAP. To supply Lunga, I would run convoys of medium APs directly from Truk to Lunga, or would run big APs from Truk to Shortland and small APs from there to Lunga (it's more efficient to use the small ships for short hauls). To supply Tulagi and Irau, I would create barge TFs on computer control at Lunga and hope the AI is smart enough to use them, or I would set the barge TFs to 'continuous supply' between Lunga and Tulagi resp. Irau if I don't trust the AI.

Regarding the ships with low endurance, are you talking about PG/PC/SC/AV types? Please clarify.

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to kvandoc)
Post #: 9
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/29/2004 5:03:57 AM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline 		When do the barges kick in I am in scen #17 2/01/43 and no barges yet?

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 10
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/29/2004 5:29:43 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		March 1 you get a whole bunch of the little darlin's. Use 'em wisely, though, 'cause you don't get very many more.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 11
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/29/2004 5:31:19 AM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CMDRMCTOAST

When do the barges kick in I am in scen #17 2/01/43 and no barges yet?


I assume you mean allied barges. March-April 43. You only get about 50 or so

_____________________________

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile- hoping it will eat him last
- Winston Churchill

(in reply to CMDRMCTOAST)
Post #: 12
RE: Barge Hubs - 3/29/2004 4:42:31 PM   
CMDRMCTOAST


Posts: 673
Joined: 5/3/2003
From: Mount Vernon wa..
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

March 1 you get a whole bunch of the little darlin's. Use 'em wisely, though, 'cause you don't get very many more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bilbow

I assume you mean allied barges. March-April 43. You only get about 50 or so


I thank you gentlemen once again....

_____________________________

The essence of military genius is to bring under
consideration all of the tendencies of the mind
and soul in combination towards the business of
war..... Karl von Clausewitz

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 13
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