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Stalingrad Campaign - 10/11/2001 2:08:00 PM

JNL

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: Massenheim, Germany
Status: offline

This one is a toughie! I remember reading Alex's AARs and decided to finally try this one out. Blasted thru the first scen - DV. Managed a MV on the second. Draw in number 3. I was kinda bummed out on number 3 - I pretty much whacked the AA guns - but lost the odd APC and SP Gun. I think the final score was 3000 to 1000 (around that). The briefing at the end said something about "I think there were women in the gun crews...". Well if that was the case - were do I sign those babes up? Here's the OOB I started with: 3 Stug F/8 platoons
3 command cars (attached to Stug platoons - to be upgraded to Sig 33s)
4 Engineer platoons (one minus the MG34)
FO Kublewagon
3 Batteries of 75mm FH (total of 12 guns)
2 Ammo dumps
1 Command car (I had a couple points left over) I have heard about the street fights where amour is pretty worthless - so I loaded up the Engineers. I made sure that I had a couple of SP Guns in my core. Made sure I had a good amount of on board arty with ammo dumps to support them. I even edited the German OOB so I could upgrade my 75mm FH to 105mm FH as the campaign progressed. I paid attention to the AARs I've seen - so I kinda cheated - I have a good idea of what to expect........Doesn't seem to help to much. I'm not getting my head handed to me - but I'm sure not making the kind of progress I should. How about some feedback? Maybe some OOB tips or tactics. What worked for you or what didn't work? I tend to play SPWAW "Lee style" - Move Offensively - Fight Defensively. The AI is pretty much a sucker when you can force it into moving toward you as opposed to trying to dig it out of prepared positions. While I'm at it - Kudos to Alex(?) - I've gone thru the "The Long Long Road" Campaign twice now -once as US and I'm working on doing it as the Brits. What a great idea - stringing those together.

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JNL

Post #: 1

- 10/11/2001 3:38:00 PM

Alexandra

Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline

[(around that). The briefing at the end said something about "I think there were women in the gun crews...". Well if that was the case - were do I sign those babes up? They were. That AA Battalion was composed of 17 to 19 year old girls. They had no AT training with thier guns, btw. They saw tanks, manually lowered the barrels of the AA guns and opened up. Note that, irl, they didn't do much damage to the Germans. That was due mainly, I'd guess, to the lack of training. They did, however, from the quotes I've seen from German commanders, earn the respect of the panzer officers.
Here's the OOB I started with: 3 Stug F/8 platoons
3 command cars (attached to Stug platoons - to be upgraded to Sig 33s)
4 Engineer platoons (one minus the MG34)
FO Kublewagon
3 Batteries of 75mm FH (total of 12 guns)
2 Ammo dumps
1 Command car (I had a couple points left over) I have heard about the street fights where amour is pretty worthless - so I loaded up the Engineers. I made sure that I had a couple of SP Guns in my core. Made sure I had a good amount of on board arty with ammo dumps to support them. I even edited the German OOB so I could upgrade my 75mm FH to 105mm FH as the campaign progressed. I paid attention to the AARs I've seen - so I kinda cheated - I have a good idea of what to expect........Doesn't seem to help to much. I'm not getting my head handed to me - but I'm sure not making the kind of progress I should. How about some feedback? Maybe some OOB tips or tactics. What worked for you or what didn't work? I tend to play SPWAW "Lee style" - Move Offensively - Fight Defensively. The AI is pretty much a sucker when you can force it into moving toward you as opposed to trying to dig it out of prepared positions. I think you may not have enough infantry. Given the nature of the city, and the Russian ability to recover from suppression - and Marauders' excellent use of inflitratiors, you may regret the heavy buyind of arty. Then again, it may be the perfect buy

While I'm at it - Kudos to Alex(?) - I've gone thru the "The Long Long Road" Campaign twice now -once as US and I'm working on doing it as the Brits. What a great idea - stringing those together.[/QB][/QUOTE] Thanks. I thought it would be neat to take a unit from Africa to the end of the war - then Bill came out with Victors, and I added that on, too. I need to get back to playing it myself, with my Poles. I've done two of so turns of the Utah landing scen. Alex

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- 10/11/2001 4:58:00 PM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

I've read about those AA girls in a book by Paul Carrell!When the german troops discovered the bodies of the dead girls around the AAs they got very impressioned!!!

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Post #: 3

- 10/12/2001 7:15:00 PM

Pantherblaster

Posts: 338
Joined: 11/13/2000
From: Bilthoven, Utrecht, The Netherlands
Status: offline

Here's basically what my list was (not complete): -1 Rifle Company (MG42's)
-1 Engineer Platoon
-2 Inf-AT Section
-1 MMG Section (MG42)
-2 Recon Team Sections
-1 Sniper -1 PzkwIVfs-2 Platoon
-1 PzkwIVfs-2 Section
-1 Flammpanzer-II Platoon
-1 Platoon of Sig-33 SPA
-1 Section of Stug's My results for the first three: DV, Draw, DV. The draw cost me as I'm now playing the AAA scenarion you're referring to. I love those flame-tanks btw, they really make you blast you're way through ranks of enemy infantry, creating local breakthroughs quite rapidly. The thing I love about this campaign is that your force is really getting worn down over the campaign with a limited amount of repair points. Regards, Pantherblaster

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"War is the continuation of politics by all other means"-Vom Kriege, Carl von Clausewitz.

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Post #: 4

- 10/12/2001 9:28:00 PM

lnp4668

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline

You will needs the sig33b when you gets into the city. I played the campaign with v5.x and collapse buildings take out many men. Seems like men don't get kill when building collapse on them in 6.1

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"My friends, remember this, that there are no bad herbs, and no bad men; there are only bad cultivators." Les Miserables

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Post #: 5

- 10/12/2001 9:51:00 PM

john g

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by lnp4668:
You will needs the sig33b when you gets into the city. I played the campaign with v5.x and collapse buildings take out many men. Seems like men don't get kill when building collapse on them in 6.1

I'm off today so I decided to test this. Using a 15cm gun from a 33 diring at unspotted units in stone buildings, 1 or 2 men killed per hit on the building (using z key to fire at hex). Firing at wooden buildings 1 to 5 men killed per hit (again using z key). Not every hit collapsed a building but the casualty reports were seperate for some hits in the form of 1 cas 4 cas (in one of the cases of 5 dead) so it may be the report just doesn't show the building collapse but does the killing anyway. Personally I like the casualty distribution. I don't like the idea that an undamaged house is a death trap just waiting to fall on top of my men. In Arnhem the British troops at the bridge held buildings that were pounded to swiss cheese without being slaughtered by falling buildings. A building should be a defensible structure, not a place to avoid until it turns to rubble.
thanks, John.

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- 10/12/2001 10:54:00 PM

Gen.Hoepner

Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline

i think so,but sometimes it could crash on men! McKenzie at that bridge did't suffer any casuality from crashing buildings,but i'm not sure that it did never happen in a large battle as stalingrad

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Post #: 7

- 10/12/2001 11:23:00 PM

lnp4668

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline

I don't knows much about Holland's architecture, but in Tornado alley, most houses have basement where people could hide then come out after building collapse. However, I feels that a collapsing building will cause massive suppression as well as possible casualties.

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"My friends, remember this, that there are no bad herbs, and no bad men; there are only bad cultivators." Les Miserables

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Post #: 8

- 10/13/2001 10:47:00 PM

Pantherblaster

Posts: 338
Joined: 11/13/2000
From: Bilthoven, Utrecht, The Netherlands
Status: offline

I can assure you that when our buildings collapse you will not die, LOL! Regards, Pantherblaster

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Post #: 9

- 10/14/2001 2:52:00 AM

BryanMelvin

Posts: 1555
Joined: 7/28/2000
From: Colorado, USA
Status: offline

The Campaign is designed to reflect the wearing down effect on the core. I did add a few Sig 33's in the street fighting battles. I hope to have an update to this campaign soon but I need to finish up the Merderet campaign first. The Merderet Campaign is about the battles fought along the Merderet River, Normandy by the US 82nd Airborne Div.

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MarauderMel

http://www.wargamer.com/hosted/Steelpanthers/index.asp

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Post #: 10

- 10/14/2001 1:51:00 PM

degen

Posts: 166
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: California
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by JNL:
This one is a toughie! I remember reading Alex's AARs and decided to finally try this one out. Blasted thru the first scen - DV. Managed a MV on the second. Draw in number 3. I was kinda bummed out on number 3 - I pretty much whacked the AA guns - but lost the odd APC and SP Gun. I think the final score was 3000 to 1000 (around that). The briefing at the end said something about "I think there were women in the gun crews...". Well if that was the case - were do I sign those babes up? Here's the OOB I started with: 3 Stug F/8 platoons
3 command cars (attached to Stug platoons - to be upgraded to Sig 33s)
4 Engineer platoons (one minus the MG34)
FO Kublewagon
3 Batteries of 75mm FH (total of 12 guns)
2 Ammo dumps
1 Command car (I had a couple points left over) I have heard about the street fights where amour is pretty worthless - so I loaded up the Engineers. I made sure that I had a couple of SP Guns in my core. Made sure I had a good amount of on board arty with ammo dumps to support them. I even edited the German OOB so I could upgrade my 75mm FH to 105mm FH as the campaign progressed. I paid attention to the AARs I've seen - so I kinda cheated - I have a good idea of what to expect........Doesn't seem to help to much. I'm not getting my head handed to me - but I'm sure not making the kind of progress I should. How about some feedback? Maybe some OOB tips or tactics. What worked for you or what didn't work? I tend to play SPWAW "Lee style" - Move Offensively - Fight Defensively. The AI is pretty much a sucker when you can force it into moving toward you as opposed to trying to dig it out of prepared positions. While I'm at it - Kudos to Alex(?) - I've gone thru the "The Long Long Road" Campaign twice now -once as US and I'm working on doing it as the Brits. What a great idea - stringing those together.

Yes, this is a tough fight! My OOB was as follows: 1 FJ company
1 Engineer platoon
1 Infantry AT section
I Platoon Mark IVf2 (s)
1 Platoon Mark IIIL
1 Mortar section (81mm) I changed this later to include an FO, an 88mm, and and ammo truck at the expense of the AT section and some FJs. I usually use my support points to purchase extra artillery. The FJ squads have not been as effective as I hoped through out this campaign and have received a pretty good whippin from the Russians. I like your decision to include lots of 75mm howitzers in your core force. I just completed the Nail Factory and have been only marginally successfully so far: 2 DVs, 1 marginal, and 3 draws. However, what I believe is the most important element in this campaign is the effective use of artillery, both for suppression and cover. I found that with good use of artillery (smoke to cover my approach--live fire to suppress the positions once I am close), I was able to get close to Russina positions with being butchered too badly. However, I got cocky during the Nail Factory and went straight to the assault without using my artillery. I managed a draw for this battle, but my core force took a beating-my FJ company and tanks were badly mauled and I could not replace them after the battle. I plan to play this battle over use a more cautious approach so that I will more of a core force leftover. Hope this helps.

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Post #: 11

- 10/17/2001 5:32:00 PM

JNL

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: Massenheim, Germany
Status: offline

Please note - this posting will describe some features and events which occur during some of the scenarios. If you haven't played the campaign (which I recommend) and wish to find them out the "hard way" please do not continue reading
Just a little follow-up..... I redid the AA Gun scenario. I know, I know - I'm a cheater. Made it out with a DV. On to the Hill outside of Stalingrad. Pulled an MV out of that one. I made a non-historical parachute drop with the intention of interdicting any reinforcements to the hill......I didn't realize that the reinforcements would appear in the midst of my FJ platoons. They popped up all round my 6 or 7 squads and cut them to pieces. On the plus side - as I had intended they did hold any reinforcements in place - which they did for a turn or two. It was, however, at the cost of everyone who made the drop. My core and support units did their best to reach them - but you end up fighting the terrain as much as the Russian Inf up the hill. I can just imagine what would have happened to my units if I didn't drop the FJs up there. My core would have been strung out - stretching to reach the victory hexes when those 8 to 12 Russian Guard Inf squads arrived. Instead of feeling bad for the FJs that gave their all on the hill - it would have been my AFVs and engineers who would have had their heads handed to them. Marauder with infiltrators is just as nasty as WB was with mines. What was that line from the Jaws movies?..."Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water". The next scenario is just as tough - you get a huge amount of Aux units - easily 2 full companies+ of Inf plus a smattering of on board mortar and OBA. Looks very impressive at initial setup. A total of 6 Special Ops squads are included in the Aux units. After 6 or so turns we have barely dented the Russian front lines. 60% of my Special Ops squads have been destroyed. One German Inf company has been severely mauled first by dug in Soviet Inf. and then by another large infiltration group which appeared in their reorganization area. My engineers and AFVs are moving cautiously around the flank while the Aux pin down the front. Some of the mine placements and covering machine gun positions were soooo good they were almost pretty.....if they hadn't been so painful. 2 Special Ops squads were destroyed in 1 turn - hung on mines and then shattered by HMGs. Good scenario - tough - but good. I'm thinking that a MV would be real nice about now......... I've noticed that the Russians are much better shots than my troops - they also seem to get "special point blank fire" opportunities from 1 or 2 hexes away. Their ability to go fanatical has been noted in other posts - seems like the only way to ensure that they won't be a threat is to completely destroy the unit. Even 2 or 3 man leftovers can hurt one of my units with opportunity fire. Design features?

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JNL

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Post #: 12

- 10/17/2001 9:50:00 PM

lnp4668

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline

I also did a paradrop on that hills. I thinks it is the only way of winning that scenario since the enemy rush toward the capture objectives, leaving their nice fortifications. I managed to save all of my core tanks since I hold them until the support units have bleed themselves on the bunkers.

_____________________________

"My friends, remember this, that there are no bad herbs, and no bad men; there are only bad cultivators." Les Miserables

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Post #: 13

- 10/18/2001 6:16:00 AM

kao16

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Having only drawn the first two battles my third was a night defence. On the third turn the battle terminated as a DV for me 3685 to 54. So I looked at the map - there were a lot of Soviets troops just outside of visibility. Either I was very lucky (some of the masses were in front of weak areas of my line). There must have been a lot of luck around here somewhere (2 Soviet inf companies were in rout). It may have had something to do with wall to wall mines marking the front line (one per hex, doubling up occassionally) - mainly there as early warning devices but they also killed 7 of the 8 AFVs knocked out - plus a little luck with the use of artillery (3 core 81mm, 4 core 75mm how, and the 2 SP 81mm that come with the senario, plus the 105 and 150 OB Batteries.... oh, and the 3 SP150mm that I've accumulated - but they can only fire direct so got limited use). Suddenly the Soviet moral broke (while I wasn't looking) and the battle was over. Unfortunately this leads to the AA defence battle...

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Post #: 14