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Downloading music gets easier? - 4/1/2004 3:41:41 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		No this ain't an April Fools joke by the way.

Wife just told me of hearing a news blurb where a judge has ruled, downloading music is legal, on the basis you have libraries full of copywrited material daily exposed to publicly accessible photocopier machines.

Anyone else hear this latest bit?

I think it is Canadian news, but she missed fullest part of details.

I am seriously interested in this, because there has previously been people mentioning just that, that libraries are constantly technically violating copywrite as it is known legally.

Sounds absurd, but when did the law ever have to make sense.

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RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/3/2004 11:32:56 PM   
The Leprechaun


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		Yes it is true. Canadian Courts stated the Music is legal to download as long as it is not being sold and/or distrubted. because as you stated Libraries are full of copyrighted materials that are copyed daily.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 2
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/5/2004 8:30:10 AM   
Jane Doe

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/16/2003
Status: offline 		"Of course Canada, a socialist country harboring terrorists, would have a judge corrupt enough to *not* allow the law to break down the doors (and backs) of pirates. The whole country is a cesspool of leftist anti-american pot smoking jocks. Half their salaries taxed and for what? Medicare, Infrastructure, Social Programs, and Freedom? Give me some good old fashioned blatant class differences based on race any day of the week. We need to buckle down and attack these northern communists ASAP. Axis of evil anyone? Downloading music is the first step to the downfall of America, we must stop them at all costs. I have a gun and i'm on my way!"

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Ainsi dans le courage et ainsi dans la peur, ainsi dans la misère et ainsi dans l'horreur.

"first you need a tear, just a tear of gin......and then a river of tonic"

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Post #: 3
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/6/2004 12:59:53 AM   
Johnny Canuck 44

 

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Post #: 4
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/6/2004 2:11:42 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Oh, my. While I've never had any problem with the public sharing of "bootleg" live music, this opens up a pandora's box. The record companies have a right to gouge consumers on the prices of music CDs, do they not?
As always, this decision only hurts the artists and musicians who produce the official copyrighted works. Bootlegs produce no royalties--they are produced by fans and are usually live concert material. This legislation essentially condones music piracy--this is a different matter entirely. Believe me, Canadian musicians will be up in arms over this, and I will agree with them.

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RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/6/2004 2:19:18 AM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline 		Sniff... bye bye to internet radio......

Welcome back to high costs and blatant spam adds....

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RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/6/2004 3:59:29 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		I will assume Jane Doe was merely being sarcastic :)

But this Canadian doesn't support the judges decision. I think it will get crushed.

I would rather the music industry screw over the public, and gouge us at the cash register.
Because then it will encourage artists to explore self sold music via paid for downloads. And we will be able to completely eliminate the over priced services from the picture.

As for pirating, they will do that regardless of whether we make it easy here in Canada or not.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 7
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/8/2004 8:31:36 AM   
The Leprechaun


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am neither for or against this law I could care either way it was not my decision. I buy my CDs because they are better and more mobile. I how ever take offense to the post of Jane Doe. I find it offensive and disgusting.

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In dedicato imperatum ultra articulo mortis

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 8
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/8/2004 8:51:02 AM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: ask doggie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jane Doe

"Of course Canada, a socialist country harboring terrorists, would have a judge corrupt enough to *not* allow the law to break down the doors (and backs) of pirates. The whole country is a cesspool of leftist anti-american pot smoking jocks. Half their salaries taxed and for what? Medicare, Infrastructure, Social Programs, and Freedom? Give me some good old fashioned blatant class differences based on race any day of the week. We need to buckle down and attack these northern communists ASAP. Axis of evil anyone? Downloading music is the first step to the downfall of America, we must stop them at all costs. I have a gun and i'm on my way!"

.............. wow kind of scary

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Post #: 9
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/8/2004 8:59:56 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
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From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Leprechaun

I am neither for or against this law I could care either way it was not my decision. I buy my CDs because they are better and more mobile. I how ever take offense to the post of Jane Doe. I find it offensive and disgusting.


Since you're new here, you probably don't know that Mr. Doe is a Canadian and that was his "clever" way of taking a jibe at those that might be against the free transfer of copyrighted music. He apparently believes that only an American would be against the distribution of someone else's property.

If you did realize that.... Nevermind.

(in reply to The Leprechaun)
Post #: 10
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/9/2004 1:46:52 AM   
The Leprechaun


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		The problem with blame canada thing going on. Canada is not the only ones to state this just the only one to state on the first time around. If I remeber correctly the U.S.A courts over-turned their position and made it leagal and so in my opinion that is worse because they changed their mind and are saying the same as the Canadian courts.

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Post #: 11
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/9/2004 2:53:55 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Leprechaun

The problem with blame canada thing going on. Canada is not the only ones to state this just the only one to state on the first time around. If I remeber correctly the U.S.A courts over-turned their position and made it leagal and so in my opinion that is worse because they changed their mind and are saying the same as the Canadian courts.


Just in case it wasn't clear, I'm not blaming Canada. I do think this was a misguided decision. A book and a copy machine is not nearly as cost effective as simply downloading something quick & easy. Technically, you don't need even a copy machine - you could copy the book by hand with enough time & effort.

I think the library argument is ridiculous myself. Book publishers and authors are willing to accept the minor potential loss out of interest for the greater good. That shouldn't be forced upon music companies & musicians. If I was an author/publisher, I would pull my books from libraries to show solidarity for my fellow creative artists.

Having been in music business myself and gotten a couple of very meager royalty checks, I don't think that those that see this as "a freedom thing" appreciate that they are in effect stealing from the creators of this music. They have no right to freely own or distribute property that doesn't belong to them; it's that simple for me. If the creators want to cede their rights, that's fine, but it must be done explicitly IMO.

< Message edited by mjk428 -- 4/8/2004 5:02:32 PM >

(in reply to The Leprechaun)
Post #: 12
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/9/2004 4:37:39 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		We will continue to have trouble with the internet and electronic media until we get past a few specific realities.

First reality, I don't think there will come a day any time soon whereupon anyone or any group can actually "regulate" it.

Second, electronic data is so incredible movable, that it is just plain stupid to attempt to apply physical world rules to it as if it was on an equal footing.

In the world of the physical, a adult content magazine is physical, and not nearly the equal as electronic adult internet content.
So laws concerning adult content in a convcenience store, have little value to application to an internet site.

Music, video, games, applications, anything that can be called electronic data, it simply isn't the same as anything that is physical.
So applying the same laws is frankly a dumb wastage of effort.

If a person steals a cd from a store, or steals a book or a movie or any of many physical items, it is different. You might not think so, but it is.

Lifting electronic data is both infinitely easier, and infinitely more damaging.

If the person steals a single physical item, it means the lost sale of a single item.

But the theft of electronic data, means a completely unknown quantity of lost sales.

The crime is NOT identical.

Of course it all comes down to punishment applied.

I have heard of cases where murder and or manslaughter is treated with less severity to crimes that most would consider trivial in the extreme.
Our judicial system is to mired in precedent, and not willing to actually dispense justice as the word is known to the dictionary.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 13
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/14/2004 4:05:00 AM   
The Leprechaun


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am not rying to be difficult with my statements just merely pointing out facts. I am young and trying to get trough colledge well going in debt as little as possible. I would to sayLes_the_Sarge raises some good points in his last statement

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Post #: 14
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/14/2004 5:12:40 AM   
mostat

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 4/14/2004
Status: offline 		Canadians beat seals with clubs

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Post #: 15
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/14/2004 5:33:33 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		We also beat marines, green berets and airborne with clubs.

And on the weekends, we spice things up with beating hells angels with brooms.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 16
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/14/2004 6:57:17 AM   
Rainbow7


Posts: 404
Joined: 11/4/2003
From: Ottawa
Status: offline 		The issue doesn't seem so clear cut. I would never support any action that withheld musicians what's their due, but this judge's decision has probably been misrepresented. There seems to be a distinction between downloading music (legal) and uploading music (still illegal). While I'm sympathetic to the argument about electronic media allowing greater loss of revenue than, say, copying a book, I'm not all that certain this justifies a different legal status from print copyrights. Also, manufacturer's of recording media (tapes, blank cds, and now maybe even mp3 players) are charged levies (passed onto the consumer, I'm sure) that go into a pool to compensate artists for lost revenue. In other words, it's somewhat expected. This, of course, doesn't justify people giving copies of music away, but I just wanted to add a bit of confusion to the discussion.

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Post #: 17
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/14/2004 4:21:11 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		24 bucks for 50 blank cds

40 bucks for 25 blank dvds

(Canadian prices eh)

How the heck is that doing a decent job of compensating anyone.

I have every fricking song I ever made into MP3 on one dvd.
My entire cd collection would likely only need 2 or 3 dvds.

Blank media is waaaaaaaaay to cheap.

One movie, one dvd.
2 dollar rental, 2 dollar blank dvd, 4 dollar movies. How is that helping anybody?

If it is of value, and needs to be safe guarded with a copy, then make it something you only do for just that purpose.

I plan to put my new HTTR game on a blank cd, so that my purchased copy can go hang out with my other purchased copies safe and upstair and someplace random fate will have to put effort out to get to.
I would not whine if the blank cd cost me 2-5 bucks instead of 20-50 cents.

But as it currently stands, whatever levy is being levied on blank media, means precisely squat to anyone.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

(in reply to Rainbow7)
Post #: 18
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/14/2004 6:09:22 PM   
Rainbow7


Posts: 404
Joined: 11/4/2003
From: Ottawa
Status: offline 		I agree with your disdain for the ultimate amount and destination of the levies, but yours isn't actually a reason for different legal status. And although I'm not sure about this, I believe that a large portion of blank media (cds, anyway) are actually used for data backup - that's all I certainly use them for - not for frivolous games or music. I can't accept your insistence that blank media be more expensive. Also, I would be hard put to accept your view that stealing a single cd from a store should be considered less a crime than stealing the electronic-contents of the cd from the net.

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Troubles overcome are good to tell. -Yiddish saying

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Post #: 19
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/16/2004 7:20:32 AM   
The Leprechaun


Posts: 10
Joined: 4/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

We also beat marines, green berets and airborne with clubs.

And on the weekends, we spice things up with beating hells angels with brooms.

This is an interesting point, and quite humerous.
I also seem to see the same points being repeated over and over. except on a few points that never seemed to be picked up on. so I find this room in a giant circle

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Post #: 20
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/16/2004 9:13:44 AM   
Jane Doe

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/16/2003
Status: offline 		There's a band up here in the great anti-american bastion that is Canada's province of Quebec that is known as "Les Cowboys Fringants". They one day sent a demo to music label companies for a contract, but got turned down, so they marketed their album on the internet as free downloads on kazaa and such. Some months later, those same major labels came back crawling before them.
Now they perform in sold-out arenas full of file-sharers, not only in Quebec, but also in Europe. They actually played in front of 250,000 happy hooligans on the 24th of june last year for the st-john-the-baptist day.

Now, isn't that the dream of every musician out there?!

As a genuine question, just how much does the artist gets on average from the sale of a 25$can CD.

< Message edited by Jane Doe -- 4/16/2004 7:43:30 AM >

_____________________________

Ainsi dans le courage et ainsi dans la peur, ainsi dans la misère et ainsi dans l'horreur.

"first you need a tear, just a tear of gin......and then a river of tonic"

(in reply to The Leprechaun)
Post #: 21
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/16/2004 9:25:03 AM   
Jane Doe

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 4/16/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mostat

Canadians beat seals with clubs

...and Green Peace isn't even complaining about that! HA!

< Message edited by Jane Doe -- 4/16/2004 7:20:39 AM >

_____________________________

Ainsi dans le courage et ainsi dans la peur, ainsi dans la misère et ainsi dans l'horreur.

"first you need a tear, just a tear of gin......and then a river of tonic"

(in reply to mostat)
Post #: 22
RE: Downloading music gets easier? - 4/17/2004 5:09:09 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jane Doe

"Of course Canada, a socialist country harboring terrorists, would have a judge corrupt enough to *not* allow the law to break down the doors (and backs) of pirates. The whole country is a cesspool of leftist anti-american pot smoking jocks. Half their salaries taxed and for what? Medicare, Infrastructure, Social Programs, and Freedom? Give me some good old fashioned blatant class differences based on race any day of the week. We need to buckle down and attack these northern communists ASAP. Axis of evil anyone? Downloading music is the first step to the downfall of America, we must stop them at all costs. I have a gun and i'm on my way!"


Started off mad, got furious, began to think, laughed my ass off

(in reply to Jane Doe)
Post #: 23
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