Skandranon
Posts: 15
Joined: 5/24/2000
Status: offline
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First off, let me say excellent work, and a job well done. This is the Steel Panthers game I’ve always wanted. Constant improvement and attention to detail, interaction with the players, and a revamped system make this a real winner. Since I initially heard about it and saw the feature set, there hasn’t been a game I anticipated more. That does include all the ‘big name’ games out there, too. Steel Panthers was always so frustratingly close to greatness, and now I think it has a chance to make it there. Keep up what you’re doing, if this is any indication of how your own games will turn out, you’ve already got my money!
I’ve been lurking on the boards here for a while, and thought I’d do my part to help with the game, so I’ve compiled a list of all my observations, wants, theories, and sundry other items. This list is far from complete, and might contain mistakes of its own (especially on some of the more esoteric items – I really don’t know a few of the weapons listed, which, though I'm not an expert, surprised me!), but I hope it helps with the patching process.
General Observations, bugs, etc:
1. British .50 cal MG in Grabner's Last Ride scenario makes a howitzer sound when fired.
2. Off–board artillery's 1,2,3,4 line of impact was always something I despised from SP1 – I'm really sorry to see it back. Surely something better can be made, a bit more random? Same for the unusually high accuracy of on board artillery (all hitting the same hex, usually). The ideal solution is to be able to tell your artillery "Narrow Pattern" or "Dispersed Pattern", but that would be difficult to implement. Something other than utter predictable and wide and utter predictable and focused would be nice. SPWW2 does a tolerable job at this. Dunno how they did it, though.
3. I've had a lot of 'Out of Memory'/'Less than 5 meg virtual memory free' errors. Odd. I have 128 meg and 192 meg of VM. Easily fixed with a memory recovery program (like included with Powerstrip), and I'm not sure if the root cause is really SPWAW yet.
4. Default movement settings at slow and fast dialogue bubbles should be changed – although most players change these quickly, little things like that raise the learning curve and drive away newbies. Something no one in a faltering genre wants!
5. When your squad/unit commander fails to rally, the Rally button is of course greyed out... however, it is also often greyed out when he fails but his superior in contact succeeds! In this situation, you can press the greyed out button and get a message that 'X cannot rally', but then the superior in contact does attempt to rally, if he can! The button shouldn't be grey if there is still a chance of someone higher on the chain rallying. Also, the hotkey ('R') doesn't work when the button is grey, even if you really can still rally.
6. I noticed that when realistic/reduced ammo is set, that aircraft lose weapons, since their guns are counted as AP shots. That explains all those complaints of Stukas with only one cannon and such.
7. Observation Posts should function as Forward Observers (or as Recon as well...) and Headquarters/Command Bunkers should function as HQ Emplacements, but often do not in the OOB's.
8. Could forts, emplacements, large bunkers, etc. have an internal carrying capacity to hold a squad or so? Personally, I think it'd be great to have small squads sallying forth to defend the bunker.
9. I would like to see the option of heavy towing vehicles to move that stuck/immobilized Elefant....
10. I like the new lethality of some weapons (mortars were always underrated in the SP games), but in some cases it's gone too far. MG's and (especially) rifles are far too effective against dug–in/entrenched infantry. I've regularly been left shaking my head as my entrenched, veteran Wehrmacht soldiers are shredded by Soviet riflemen marching up to them across an open field. Worst example of this was in that exact situation, with two Soviet rifle squads firing from 350–450 yards and succeeding in reducing my entrenched vets to 30% strength in a single round. Wha? Were they standing up and waving their arms at the Reds? – Addendum: I have a theory on this that also explains this and the unusual effectiveness of HE weapons against units in the same hex as another which is being fired upon – is the HE Warhead size (or ‘splash damage’ as I call it) too effective? I’ve learned that with low hit percentages, it’s much more effective to fire at the hex (with the Direct Fire ‘Z’ command) containing a unit than directly at the unit!
11. As it stands, aircraft and artillery seem to be fairly well balanced to me, with a sole exception – they're prohibitively expensive. I never bother buying them anymore, even in limited numbers.
12. Aircraft unfortunately still do become 'magic spotters' at times – though you don't retain the spot, you can see way too many enemy forces for a brief minute.
13. In the same vein, I've had many times when during the opening artillery barrage that I can see the entire enemy force, even on the minimap. This is an old bug, I believe.
14. Infantry and other units that can’t move/change facing in some scenarios (British Units J0 and G2 in Jungle Rats, ANZAC Units E2 and E3 in Gotanda’s Advance, I am sure there are others I can’t recall) this is NOT C2 related - they can’t move no matter what.
15. Depending on what’s going on, sounds may pause for a half-second or so, right in the middle of the WAV. I found that when I shut off the sounds of battle and music, this was no longer a problem.
16. Two more infantry problems: units at 10-20% strength that are still fighting more often than running? Units with only one or two men left and they’re managing to fire rifles, fire their LMG, and throw some grenades. Wow! (I like the more ‘hardy’ infantry, but this is a bit much)
17. Infantry do draw too much fire by firing on armor they can’t really hurt. This is a serious pain in well placed ambushes and snipers. I do wish there were a way to tell units “only fire on soft/hard targets.” On numerous occasions, I’ve had infantry fire at armor in preference to other infantry... which then proceeds to butcher them.
18. How about an ‘Artillery and Aircraft Effectiveness’ control, like ‘Infantry Toughness’ and such in the Preferences menu? That would put an end to the constant “Artillery’s too strong! vs. Artillery’s too weak!” argument.
19. This is the ‘Dead Horse’ category: Things I’ve seen on the boards, but decided to list again anyway. Blue–Light Special Polish Infantry, immobilized vehicles staying immobile in the next battle, the need for ammo selection (Don't shoot the HEAT at the friggin' Daimler! Arggh! That's it, to the Russian front with you.), gun crews with rifles becoming crews with pistols, the desire for bigger maps and higher unit/formation limits, when Limited Ammo is off aircraft have unlimited bombs and can drop a dozen in one pass, you know all these, so I'll cut the details. 
Specific OOB Observations:
(where possible I’ve listed the specific OOB number entry)
ANZAC:
005 and 008 – Two different entries for the Crusader I, with different Fire Control and Carrying Capacity.
023 – Sherman V with different HEAT ammo, armor slope and 0 cost than 021?
032 – Valentine III CS with 0 cost and a 2lbr with HE ammo; also has enormously different armor than other Valentine III's.
033 – Sherman 105 with 0 cost
035 – Churchill IV – no HE for 6lbr, size, weight, smoke discharger, Range Finder, armor, availability all off from other Churchills.
041 – Valentine IX – no CMG/BMG, but has ammo for one. No 6lbr HE.
049 – Lt A/C Rover – Besa 15mm and 57L52 reversed slots, 0 cost.
053 – MG Carrier – carries troops outside rather than inside vehicle (6 vs. 106) Has no slope, but Bren does.
078 – NZ AT – 12 PIAT rounds? Most seem to have 6–10.
082 – 6" Howitzer Battery – 3 guns have no ammo. Only available until 1942? Not used afterwards?
090–095 – All aircraft have 10 times the armor they should (110 instead of 11 for instance).
090 – Boomerang – 1 .303 MG missing (no AP column entry)
092 – Hurricane IV – Carrying 8 20mm's?
093 – Beaufighter X – Another set of 8 20mm's.
095 – Typhoon – 4 20mm's and 5 12.7mm's ... seems like an odd number.
100 – Naval Fort – 6 inch gun has APCR ammo.
101 – Sentinel – Has a Vickers BMG with no ammo.
109 – 18lbr Howitzer – Has ammo for empty weapons slots.
119–120 – Jeep and Vickers Jeep. Same cost, but one carries a HMG, AAMG, and Rifle, while the other just has the Rifle. Seems a bit unbalanced. Also, these cost four times as much as the US Jeep.
124 – FO Jeep cheaper than plain Jeep, and is 4 pts more than UK Jeep, several times cost of US Jeep again. Because they are scouts they are more expensive than US version?
133 – Commandos with 20 satchel charges. Supposed to be Sniper Rifle? Same unit as 076 (except Satchel Charge abundance...), but only cost 15, versus 20 for 076 Commandos.
143 – Spitfire MkVIII – 6 20mm, has 12.7mm MG ammo, but no guns (AP column empty)
144 – Hurricane IID – 4 .303's, another set of .303 ammo but no guns, AND 4 37mm cannons.
146 – Wirraway – 5 .303's? Seems like an odd number. Then again, I don’t recall this aircraft.
162 – Yeramba – Only available in 1949?
166 – Matilda Dozer with 2lber HE ammo?
178 – Centurion Mk3 – Fire Control of 12, Weight 15, Crew 4 (versus 3 for Centurion in slot 177).
192 – Horsa Glider – Carrying ammo for nonexistent weapon.
193 – Hamilcar – Carrying ammo, no weapons.
207 – M5 HT SP–Gun – carrying 18lbr and AAMG, but can carry two (externally? Shouldn't it be internal?) riders. Mortar and MG Carrier versions of M5 can carry no one, though?
211 – Rifle Sec – has Rifle–Grenades with AP ammo, these are set up to work correctly, but many countries’ Rifle–Grenade AP does NOT have a HEAT rating, making them useless.
212 – 60lbr Howitzer – two of the sections have no ammo, and one has 5 HEAT shots, even though off board AND there's no such item as 60# HEAT ammo.
230 – Ammo Carrier classed as truck; should be classed as Ammo Carrier. Could cause reloading problems I can just picture the troops crowding around for reloads and the Quartermaster saying they brought the wrong truck....
Lots of infantry with Suomi SMG's: 069, 076, 121, 126, 168, 184, 186, 187, 240, and 244.
Belgium:
006 – Honey with 37mm Kwk38? Really? 007 Stuart and 067 Grant as well.
046 – Hurricane MkI – Don't know, did it carry 4 .50 Cal's and 2 7.7mm's?
047 – Renard – Carrying ammo for empty weapon slots.
Bulgaria:
022 – HQ should be Emplacement or some special to reduce surrounding units' suppression.
058–059 – Bf–109's have a single weapon in an empty slot (1 in the AP column)
Canada:
013 – Sherman V – no side turret slope (should be 5?)
019 – Sherman 1C – no front or rear hull slope (44 and 10?), no BMG or AAMG?
020 – Sherman IIA – no rear slope – 10 seems normal; no side turret slope (5?)
021 – Sherman IIC – no rear slope – 10 seems normal; no side turret slope (5?)
024 – Sherman DD – no front hull slope – 44?
– Shermans of other armies seem to have different slopes, even though same model!
EX: UK Shermans have 12 ST slope, 36–46 FH, 5–15 RH, 16–38 FT
028 – Churchill III has 0 RH slope... but Mk.I has 59 – that much change?
029 – Churchill IV has 0 RH slope... but Mk.I has 59 – that much change?
055 – Daimler Dingo – Enfield Rifle with 10 HE and 48 AP?? (Bren AAMG?) 2nd weapon blank, 90shots.
058 – M5 Halftrack – Carries 10, but same vehicle in ANZAC carries 12
059 – M3A1 Halftrack – Carries 10, but external... should be '110' for internal. Armor 7 all around... but UK M3 has 12 FT/FH and very different slopes. Same for M5 Halftrack – 7 all around, but UK (and others) has 18 FH/FT, 12 side and rear, and different slopes.
060 – Morris 15cwt – has Vickers Coax gun? Some trucks (061 Chevy, for example) can fire rifles, but others cannot, such as the Dodge and GMC at 062 and 063.
066 – Assault Eng. – 20 satchel charges??
072 – Rifle Sec – Has 12 ST slope?
073 – Engineer Sec – Mills Bomb has AP? Does it do anything different than the HE with Pen 38? Has FH, RH, ST slope ratings.
074 – Engineer Sec – 36 Grenade has 8 AP ammo
– Also, the “75 Grenade” seems to have a 222 AP rating referring it to a HEAT entry... but there’s no HEAT entry. Doesn’t seem to make much difference, as they’re all given HE ammo, I think.
075 – Engineer Sec – 20 RH slope.
076 – Commandos – 38 RH slope.
080 – Airborne Sec – SMG has HEAT ammo.
081 – Recon – has slope ratings
082 – Recon – has slope ratings
083 – Scout Patrol – 36 Grenade has AP
084 – Scout Team – 36 Grenade has AP
086 – 3in Mortar Sec – has FT slope
098 – 3in 20cwt AA has 7.7 Type 97 TMG? (I changed this to a 3in DP gun like the USMC, realistic or not)
102 – Staghound AA has APCR for the .50 cal – why even have AP when HE has the same penetration?
113 – 105mm Howitzer has HEAT ammo for one gun – isn't it off screen?
120 – Vickers Jeep – carries 3 weapons vs. 1 of regular Jeep, but same cost.
121 – Daimler Dingo – same as 055, same problems! and also carry is 4, versus 106 for Daimler 055
122 – Stuart Recce – has no armor slopes? Has weapon slot with ammo, but no weapon. Also – thicker armor than Stuart I and VI. (009 and 010) Shouldn't 6 people be carried internally? (are on FO Stuart)
157 – FO RAM – has APCR ammo for no weapon. Shouldn't have some RH slope? 10, like Shermans?
190 – Auster Mk VI – what is this, a recon plane that's not really 'in' the game? Available only in '49, w/camera. Armor 60.
– All aircraft seem to have 10x the armor they should have (110 instead of 11, for example)
194 – 195 Size 4 for DC3, Size 5 for C–47? Different carry capacities? (different than other countries with same aircraft, too!)
199 – Hurricane IIB has 12 .303 MG's
201 – Spitfire IX has 6 20mm and 5 .30 Cal MG's.
202 – Mustang III has two weapon slots, but one has no guns, other has all six MG's.
205 – Typhoon has 5 12.7mm MG's? Odd number?
– None of the fortresses for Canada have any slope to their armor – some others (such as CZ) do.
221 – Obs Post – Classed as a Forward Observer (good, some aren't!), but Enfield Rifle has APCR ammo?
228 – Redoubt seems cheap... costs as much as a pillbox, but has many times the firepower!
229 – Pillbox only available until 1938, Lt and Hvy Pillboxes that replace it aren't available until 1942. What about '39–'41?
232 – HQ Bunker – Shouldn't it be a special unit/Emplacement, rather than fort, so it'll reduce suppression, etc?
237 – Coastal Gun has 7.7 Type 92 HMG
238 – Coastal Gun has 7.7 Type 92 HMG, no AP for 3in gun?
246 – Assault Boat has FT/RT slope, but no armor.
Czechoslavakia:
044 – Marder III(h) armed with.... an M1 Carbine! Hey, it has AP ammo, it should blast those Shermans!
092 – Command Car – Shouldn't the carry capacity be internal (104 vs the 4 it has)?
094 – Tatra T92 Truck – has FT slope
133 – 8cm Mort Sqd – Can move at 4, most 8 or so cm mortars move at 2.
170 – Sniper – has a Rangefinder of 10! Wow, I want a few of those.
179 –Inf AT Team – 30 Anti Tank Mines?
235 – Ammo Carrier classed as Heavy Truck, should be Ammo Carrier
Nationalist China:
012 – Carrier A classed as a SPATGM? May not be error, just seems odd.
015 – 2&1/2 Ton Truck has armor slopes
016 – 37mm M3A1 ATG has armor slopes
017 – 75mm 75/13 has armor slopes
018 – .50 Cal AAMG has armor slopes
019 – 7.5cm lelG 18 has armor slope
024 – 4.2in Mort Sqd has empty weapon slot with ammo
034 – Bunker seems much too expensive compared to 035's cost.
057 – Rifle Sqd has RT slope
059 – I–16 70 armor
060 – I–16 has ST slope, 70 armor
066–067 – Naval guns have heavy armor.. but other countries' batteries (such as Canada), have none?
070 – Stuart Recce – has different armor than other nations Stuart Recce, and normal Stuarts; also classed as SPATGM (assume this is just for formation issues) Shouldn't it carry its troops internally as well? Shouldn't it and other nation's Stuart Recce's have smoke dischargers, like normal Stuarts?
081 – Dare Death Sqd Molotov's have AP ammo.
087 – 81mm Mort Sqd has empty slot with ammo.
094 – M4a4 Sherman has very different slopes to armor from other Shermans.
118 – HQ has ineffective AP ammo for Rifle–Grenades.
198 – MG Bunker has a Panzerfaust with 40 HE ammo... HE doesn't work with Panzerfaust, does it?
200 – Command Bunker – should it be an Emplacement or something special to reduce suppression as normal HQ?
225 – Empty slot with slope rating
235 – Recon Patrol with AP Rifle–Grenades (have no AP damage designated) – There may be a lot more of these, since I thought AP Rifle–Grenades were still their own weapon! I'm sure I saw more infantry equipped with this ineffective ammo...
236 – Ditto for the Rifle–Grenades
Communist China:
030 – Warlord Rifles – Camara? Don't know what this is.. has 5 HE, but apparently does no damage.
031 – Warlord Rifles – Camara here as well.
032 – Sniper – Rangefinder 10 and Fire Control 10?? Extremely high compared to other snipers. (CA has a 2 FC, 0 RGF; US Army has 5 FC 0 RGF; Germany has FC 10 RGF 0; need more consistency?)
046 – M2A1 105mm Howitzer battery has HEAT ammo
068 – Ammo Dump has armor 20 all around, some do, some don’t.
081 – Dare Death Sqd – Molotovs are AP, not HE, which I think they should be.
082 – Knee Mort Sqd has Tp 89 HGL instead of knee mortars? Improved version, alternate weapon?
230 – Ammo Carrier classed as Heavy Truck, should be Ammo Carrier.
235 – Recon Patrol – has AP Rifle–Grenades
244 – Warlord HQ has mysterious the Camara
Finland:
087 – Engineers have AP Hand Grenades.
032 – Ammo Dump has 20 armor all around. Some do, some don't... not sure which way I like it. Has AP Hand Grenades, as well.
048 – T–26E has no Range Finder, while previous version (T–26M33 – 046) has a 1 rating. Newer one has worse targeting?
049 – OT–130 has no slope to any of its armor?
050 – Vickers M1933 – No slope at all, either?
066 – Myrsky II has 1 Top armor?
081 – SS Rifle Sq has AP Rifle–Grenades
089 – Command Bunker should be Emplacement, not Fort?
090 – Mannerheim Gun has ineffective HEAT ammo for its 75mm. APCR, or no special ammo?
202 – Coastal Gun – 203mm Naval Gun has AP ammo.. though I think naval guns should have some AP ammo (otherwise, what're they doing there in the first place....), this AP has no damage rating. Also... size 1?
230 – Ammo Carrier classed as Heavy Truck
– the Finnish were big on forts, shouldn't they have an Observation Post, for instance? And the sizes for forts seem oddly small now that I look at them.
France:
040 – Ammo Dump has armor.
101 – Command Bunker – should it be an Emplacement, rather than Fort?
105 – Coastal Gun has AP ammo, but has no AP ammo damage rating. Size 1? (several forts are size 1)
121 – R–40 has no slope?
125 – Maquis – Incendiary Bomb has AP ammo, should be HE.
127 – Maquis – Incendiary Bomb has AP ammo, should be HE.
130 – Le0 451 B4 has 110 armor, should be 11.
131 – M.S. 406 C1 has 110 armor, should be 11.
133 – Hurricane IIC has 110 armor, should be 11.
191 – Char D1 B is classed as a Flame Tank. Is this just for organization purposes?
204 – Potez 63.11 'Observation Helicopter'/Aircraft – Already deleted
Free France:
041 – HQ has Rifle–Grenades with AP ammo – except these are set up to work correctly!
125 – Maquis has AP instead of HE ammo for Incendiary Bomb. – also, the Incendiary Bomb has no HE Kill rating – is this correct?
127-129 have same Incendiary Bomb problems.
162 – SAS Team is classed as Airborne Infantry, should they be Special Forces, instead?
182 – P-39 Aircobra has 1 Top armor? Some aircraft have this, some don’t. What does it do?
198 – Hadrian Troop – Has 60 armor, should be 6.
200 – DC-3 Troop – Has 90 armor, should be 9. Has armor slope? Also, different carry capacities and size than other DC-3’s and C-47’s.
Hungary:
015 – 40M 75mm AT-Gun has slope ratings.
021-022 – Molotovs with AP ammo, should be HE.
035 – Another armored Ammo Dump
063-064 – Molotovs with AP ammo.
069 – SS Rifle Sd – this unit/army has functional AP Rifle-Grenades
070 – C.R. 42AS Falco – has 1 Top armor.
230 – Ammo Carrier is classed as a Heavy Truck.
That’s all for now, it’ll be a few days before I have the chance to go through more countries.
Derek "Skandranon"
[This message has been edited by Skandranon (edited 05-24-2000).]
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Derek "Skandranon"
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A big OOB/bug list and a delurk - 
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