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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> React or dont react... Page: [1]
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React or dont react... - 4/23/2004 8:40:03 PM   
scorryuk

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline 		Have a small query on the "react to enemy" & "retirement allowed" options on TF`s. Initially learned to disable both to stop computer committing suicide with my forces or running away at first sight of trouble. But recently used retirement allowed feature successfully when I sent TF into surface combat at night against enemy ships unloading at Gili and retreated before air cover in morning. So now I`m wondering can anyone offer advice on using these options successfully. How exactly to they work? With the react to enemy feature I want computer to alter plans/course to engage target or to scarper at sight of trouble. Frustrating to have your surface fleet TF end turn on hex beside enemy AP convoy and not attack. Also my subs have all approaches to landing beach completely covered but do not seem able to attack any ships passing by. Does computer/human control & react to enemy have bearing on this?
Post #: 1
RE: React or dont react... - 4/23/2004 10:28:12 PM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scorryuk

Have a small query on the "react to enemy" & "retirement allowed" options on TF`s. Initially learned to disable both to stop computer committing suicide with my forces or running away at first sight of trouble. But recently used retirement allowed feature successfully when I sent TF into surface combat at night against enemy ships unloading at Gili and retreated before air cover in morning. So now I`m wondering can anyone offer advice on using these options successfully. How exactly to they work? With the react to enemy feature I want computer to alter plans/course to engage target or to scarper at sight of trouble. Frustrating to have your surface fleet TF end turn on hex beside enemy AP convoy and not attack. Also my subs have all approaches to landing beach completely covered but do not seem able to attack any ships passing by. Does computer/human control & react to enemy have bearing on this?


The manual that comes with version 2.3 has a table that shows the effects of different combinations of react/don't react and retire/do not retire.

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to scorryuk)
Post #: 2
RE: React or dont react... - 4/23/2004 10:59:57 PM   
hithere

 

Posts: 432
Joined: 4/13/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline 		What do you use to open the manuel and tables? I have used windows XP notepad, works, and word..but just getting comupter lang.

thanks,
hithere

(in reply to scorryuk)
Post #: 3
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 12:27:08 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		For regular supply convoys (not emergency) I use react on

For emergency supply (must have it) I use do not react

For fast transport I use do not react, but set the destination hex about 5 away. That way my ships use the slower speed and not picking up alot of system damage. Then I change to react on for the "dump and scoot".

For surface combat React on

For bombardment same as fast transport

For air combat NEVER NEVER NEVER react on ALWAYS do not react.

Hope that helps some. Those are my tactics and they seem to work against the AI.

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 4
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 12:35:27 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hithere

What do you use to open the manuel and tables? I have used windows XP notepad, works, and word..but just getting comupter lang.

thanks,
hithere


For the .pdf files you should use the 'Adobe Acrobat Reader' which is on the UV CD-ROM ('AdobeReader.exe').

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 5
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 1:38:10 AM   
swagman

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 8/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline 		It is Adobe Acrobat. Launch the manual for the Opening Menu pane, or click on it in the directory. If you have Acrobat installed it will open automatically.

If you don't have Acrobat installed, I think it comes with the game on the disks. If not, it is easily obtained by running a search on the web. The reader is a freeware utility.

(in reply to hithere)
Post #: 6
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 1:42:05 AM   
Rendova


Posts: 405
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

For air combat NEVER NEVER NEVER react on ALWAYS do not react.


Although This always won't save you I just had a PBEM game where Mitcher STILL reacted back to the jap carriers with it sent to DNR. There is a setting where CV TF still will react to enemy CV's which makes me mad because they usally just end up dying .... By the way Mitcher ate a 250kg bomb himself so he won't be making that mistake again

< Message edited by Rendova -- 4/23/2004 6:45:53 PM >

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 7
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 1:57:14 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		I too have had it happen, but I have found that not always, but sometimes it saves me. I got lucky one time around turn 8 that Mitscher reacted, but stayed south of GG. Pounded Shokaku with 1000lb bombs, but had both both carriers with hvy damage. Managed to save both in Cairns.

(in reply to Rendova)
Post #: 8
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 2:09:18 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		If you want to make sure that your CV TFs don't go anywhere you don't want them to, set them to "do not react" and "patrol - do not retire" and have them follow a surface TF with the same setting.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Rendova)
Post #: 9
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 2:39:08 AM   
Rendova


Posts: 405
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: Atlanta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

If you want to make sure that your CV TFs don't go anywhere you don't want them to, set them to "do not react" and "patrol - do not retire" and have them follow a surface TF with the same setting.

Good tip thanks

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 10
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 4:05:31 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		There are times, not many, that using react on is good for a ACTF. I have been able to catch my opponents CVTF using it. If you have a large CVTF and want battle, then use it. Works well early in the game and the Allies try to raid Lunga or something, often their pilots are tired and yours are rested.

(in reply to Rendova)
Post #: 11
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 6:09:00 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		I agree, Nomad, but people want to be VERY careful of CV TFs reacting when you have more than one of them and they are relying on each other for mutual CAP. There is also the "one hex react" that you frequently get when you have the TF on "do not react" but not following a surface combat TF. This almost always splits CV TFs, too (and, just for the sake of mentioning it, it doesn't work to have one CV TF follow another one).

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 12
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 7:40:24 AM   
Nomad


Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
Status: offline 		I agree, it has to be used with caution. I learned about the CVTF following another CVTF the hard way, lost 4 CVs and a bunch of CAs. It you need to know what CV assests your opponent has and where they are( you will never be absolutly sure, but a good estimate is essensal). And you have to be in the right position. It can be a shock to your opponent to have an unspotted CVTF show up on his doorstep.

I usually have me CVTFs following a SCTF but when I need or want to try an intercept I set it to react on and send it toward where I think the opponents DVTF is going to be.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 13
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 8:00:36 AM   
swagman

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 8/8/2001
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

There is also the "one hex react" that you frequently get when you have the TF on "do not react" but not following a surface combat TF.


What is the "One hex react"? I think it is partly why I just got an arse-licking.

Is there any reason why it doesn't happen when they are set to follow a surface combat TF? Is it only SCTF, or does it include invasion/transport TF's.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 14
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 9:14:50 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		When CV TFs get to within striking distance of each other, there is a strong chance (particularly if the TF commander is aggressive) that the TF will react toward the enemy TF one hex (and I have seen TFs do this twice in a turn for a total of two hexes).

I am not sure why this was built into the game, but I remember some discussion awhile back that it had to do with trying to simulate "closing the range" on the enemy as happened historically (particularly with respect to American admirals trying to compensate for the superior range of Japanese carrier-based aircraft).

It's not so bad when you only have one CV TF, but it is a colossal pain in the arse when you have more than one, because, more often than not, only one of your TFs will do this, while the others sit where they were, splitting your CAP coverage and reducing the chance of coordinated airstrikes.

The "follow a surface TF" thing was discovered by some astute players along the way, and it works for me. In fact, I do this as my routine way of moving my carriers around the map. I like to keep 'em on a short leash, because bad things can happen to them if you don't (and this is related, in my opinion, to shortcomings in the AI who acts as your "subordinate" who ought to have walked the plank long ago).

I don't use this technique with transport TFs, because they are headed to a coastal destination where, due to a patch modification at some point, effectiveness of CAP is reduced by 50 percent. I cover transports with LRCAP while standing my carriers off what I consider to be a safe distance from LBA (if I can).

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 4/24/2004 2:21:18 AM >

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to swagman)
Post #: 15
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 10:22:42 AM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		HI all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

For air combat NEVER NEVER NEVER react on ALWAYS do not react.


This is not entirely true... in some condition I prefer my carriers to react...


Example:

I have overwhelming CV force and I know weaker enemy CVs are somewhere near. With "React ON" I know that my commander would go after them (and, most probably, destroy enemy)...

BTW, I have won many many PBEMs using this tactics (where I wiped out enemy CVs and in many cases had no damage at all in my CV force because they were utterly surprised or engaged with other action).


Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 16
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 1:39:22 PM   
scorryuk

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline 		Ok clear enough on carrier TF`s but what about Surface Combat TF`s and subs. My subs hav yet to attack anything despite being in enemy hotspot. Also want my cruisers to engage enemy troop convoy. Send TF 4 hexes north to area I though enemy would end in, was 1 hex out. Thought TF should have reacted and attacked.

(in reply to swagman)
Post #: 17
RE: React or dont react... - 4/24/2004 5:32:47 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		After a year of UV gaming, I have a theory about these orders for surface combat ships:

They can do three kinds of TF: surface, bombardment or fast transport

With orders "Do not retire" all these TF will sail to the target point and arrive during day or night phases depending or the distance. Bombardment TF will nevertheless retire after a bombardment run, except if they have orders to follow a TF remaining in the target hex ! Same things for the surface TF that became engaged in battle, they will return to base.

With orders to "Retire", bombardment and fast transport TF will reach their target hex only during the night, so finishing the turn before at the good range to arrive there at night. They will leave at dawn.
Surface TF will still reach the target point in daylight or night phases and then leave, even if they didn't engage anything.
I tried to give bombardment orders to TF for open sea interceptions (of enemy CVs) but if the target hex is open sea, the bombardment TF behaves like a surface TF and may arrive there during the day phase.

As for choosing the right type of TF, surface TF fight better than bombardment of FT ones, especially in the "surprise" phase. So if you want to attack enemy shipping at night but not especially to pound the ground, you can send a bombardment TF towards the target hex with orders 'retire'. It will finish the turn at 9-12 hexes of the target, a distance it could do during the night for the raid. Then change the type of TF to "surface TF" with the same hex target. So you are sure your surface TF will strike at night.

No for reactions moves.

A surface TF will only react to defend a friendly dot (or base, of course), never against a target in open sea or at an enemy base.
It will react to the "attacked" hex if there is a transport or a fast transport TF unloading or a surface or bombardment TF. I'm still not sure if there is reaction against a minesweeping TF. I would say not but it seems to me that happens once in my games. Maybe this has to do with the detection level of the enemy TF.
Reaction move has more chance to be launched if you have troops in the hex (at least I think so). It may also help to have an agressive TF commander in your surface TF (but I have no proof of that).

As for the range of the move, it may be up to the maximum fast range of the TF (in upper left corner of the TF screen, you have its speed with two numbers like 9/5. The first is the number of hexes the TF will do at full speed in one turn = the max range of a reaction move).

To be efficient, a "reaction" TF should have orders "patrol/do not retire" and stay at his maximum range of the threatened base (to avoid enemy planes).

I use them only when I have no idea of the target, as several nearby bases may be hit. Or as patrols when small enemy TF use to cruise in friendly waters.

Another use of surface TF: antisubmarine warfare. Two tips:
1) if an enemy sub is sitting off one of your ports, you can send/create a surface TF with orders "patrol" in the hex. When the TF is arrived, verify that it doesn't dock. An undocked surface TF will patrol off the port and is very likely to meet the submarine. Then you have to have enough good ASW ships to destroy it.
2) as for ASW TF, if you send only DD or SC, a submarine may attack any of your ship before being detected. If you send for ASW search a transport TF (for example an AV escorted by 5 DD and 9 SC) or a MSW TF (replace the AV by a MSW), the submarine is likely to try to attack the escorted ship and is more likely to be detected before launching torpedoes. Do this only if you like better losing an AV or a MSW than a DD, as there is always a risk.

Now to transport TF:
With "react" orders, they will flee away from enemy CVs (everytime) but also from enemy surface TF in the same hex (even if this TF never reaches them) and from LBA (sometimes, if they suffer losses).
With "no react" orders, they will sail until they are destroyed or the mission is done.

All my routine convoy are given "react" orders. All special convoys (invasion or special convoys to threatened bases) have "no react" orders.

(in reply to scorryuk)
Post #: 18
RE: React or dont react... - 4/25/2004 10:51:46 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

There are times, not many, that using react on is good for a ACTF. I have been able to catch my opponents CVTF using it. If you have a large CVTF and want battle, then use it. Works well early in the game and the Allies try to raid Lunga or something, often their pilots are tired and yours are rested.


Yes, this is an exploit where by assigning you Carrier Tf an aggressive commander and setting it to react, it can actually warp accross the ocean and run down a smaller escaping carrier TF. I had a single carrier TF hit Rossel Island and trash a transport fleet. Set it to retire. My skilled opponent sent his whold IJN carrer fleet after me. He quickly overcame my "14" hex advantage and ran down my carrier force. I whinned like a girl and posted on the WITP page. My understanding is that this is fixed in WITP.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Nomad)
Post #: 19
RE: React or dont react... - 4/25/2004 10:59:02 PM   
denisonh


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline 		I had a real bad expereince with a surface TF reacting.

It was at Townsville set to react, and an enemy bombardbment TF hit PM.

The TF "reacted" and ended up at PM. It did not reach there at night as to do any good, but got there during the day and got pasted by Jap air. That is a 22 hex reaction!

Never seen anyhting like it, but taught me to be very careful with ANY surface TF set to react.

_____________________________


"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 20
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