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I like the new name - 3/28/2004 4:24:01 AM

wodin

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I like the new name.

I hope this game will be releasd soon.

Post #: 1

RE: I like the new name - 3/28/2004 5:14:41 AM

sol_invictus

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Ditto! Much more lively than Trench or WWI.

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Post #: 2

RE: I like the new name - 3/28/2004 5:25:09 AM

pasternakski

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I dunno. "Trench" is like "wench," which is pretty hot.

I think I'd buy a wargame called "Wench."

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Post #: 3

RE: I like the new name - 3/29/2004 12:09:40 AM

IronDuke_slith

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

I dunno. "Trench" is like "wench," which is pretty hot.

I think I'd buy a wargame called "Wench."

I'd certainly be looking forward to the screenshots and intro movie more than usual.

I think Trench does sound a bit static and boring. The new title is better. I might have gone for "The Great War" or "Road to Versaille" or something, but this is certainly an improvement.

Regards,
IronDuke

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 4

RE: I like the new name - 3/29/2004 12:39:23 AM

mbatch729

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OK, now we're on the third name for this one. Wasn't Guns of August the name of a WWI history book? Not that I care what the name is, this one is high on the purchase list.

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USS Iowa

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Post #: 5

RE: I like the new name - 3/29/2004 2:14:25 AM

pasternakski

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Whatever its origin, the expression "Guns of August" is lifted directly from the Avalon Hill paper-and-cardboard WWI strategic-level game. I never liked it, because it is a reference to the initial offensives in 1914, indicating that the game is only about events in that year, not throughout the historical war period.

Still, it beats the he11 out of "Trench."

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
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Post #: 6

THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 2:25:16 AM

Greyshaft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
Whatever its origin, the expression "Guns of August" is lifted directly from the Avalon Hill paper-and-cardboard WWI strategic-level game.

THE GUNS OF AUGUST is the title of Barbara Tuchman's 1962 Pulitzer Prize-winning history of the opening month of WWI which was made into a film in 1965. I'd say that AH borrowed the title of that book/film for their boardgame and Adanac is entitled to do the same for their computer game.

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 7

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 3:54:08 AM

pasternakski

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I have no argument with anything you say. I know the origin of the phrase, and I know that Adanac can use it, with permission, or with some addition (like 1914-1918) that renders it non-identical.

My point remains the same. I'd like to see some originality.

How about "World War I: Spring Break and Phosgene Gas."

"The Guns of August: How I Spent My Summer Vacation."

"1914-1918: The Flower of Europe Deflowered."

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 8

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 4:04:02 AM

mbatch729

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski
"1914-1918: The Flower of Europe Deflowered."

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I remember reading somewhere that the British average losses per day for WWI were 5,000 men. French loses were similar, and German were around 7,000 per day. Does that sound right, or am I totally off base here?

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Post #: 9

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 4:54:01 AM

sol_invictus

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mbatch, those numbers are very elevated. 4x365=1460x5000=7,300,000 for England. If I remember correctly, England lost around 900,000, France lost 1,300,000, and Germany lost around 2,000,000

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Post #: 10

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 6:08:35 AM

mbatch729

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You know, I think you're right. Those numbers may have been for a specific time period. But your numbers do sound more like what I remember reading for the totals...Getting old is a b*tch.

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Later,
FC3(SW) Batch
USS Iowa

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Post #: 11

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 7:00:04 AM

pasternakski

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Attachment (1)

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Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 12

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 3/29/2004 8:30:01 AM

DoomedMantis

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Do those figures for the wounded take into account that some personel were wounded several times?

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Post #: 13

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 1:21:57 AM

ShermanM4

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quote:

have no argument with anything you say. I know the origin of the phrase, and I know that Adanac can use it, with permission, or with some addition (like 1914-1918) that renders it non-identical.

My point remains the same. I'd like to see some originality.

How about "World War I: Spring Break and Phosgene Gas."

"The Guns of August: How I Spent My Summer Vacation."

"1914-1918: The Flower of Europe Deflowered."

Your horrible

Yes Greyshaft your right it was a Pulitzer Prize winning book. I did not know it became a film. Who starred in it, and I wonder if I can get my hands on it. In all I like the name "The Guns of August." I just wish it could have been a tad bit more original. Somebody earlier mentioned "The Road to Versailles." Now I like that! Maybe it could have been "1914-1918 The Road to Berlin." I think that would play an interresting twist on consumers in a market that is saturated with Band of Brothers and The Greatest Generation.

Also, it was always my understanding that the casualty rate was caused by offensives, and the otherwise day-to-day duty in the trenchs was rather boring. Battles like Verdun which lasted for about 3 months entailed every day combat. Or the British Summer offensive of 1917, which was the worst offensive ever mounted by His Majesty's Empire made a high casualty rate on a day-to-day basis.

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Post #: 14

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 1:38:15 AM

pasternakski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DoomedMantis

Do those figures for the wounded take into account that some personel were wounded several times?

Probably not, although I suspect that "killed and died" only accounts for one corpse of each type...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 15

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 1:44:51 AM

pasternakski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShermanM4
the casualty rate was caused by offensives, and the otherwise day-to-day duty in the trenchs was rather boring.

Disease was never boring. The chart of casualties above doesn't specify "Killed & Died" for nothing.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 16

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 1:54:47 AM

FrankHunter

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I read that in 1917 casualties among the Brits were around 5,000 through normal attrition (disease, constant artillery fire, raids and small-scale attacks etc) without an offensive in progress. Could be wrong and I don't have the book next to me.

I like the name Road To Versailles too, catchy :)

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 17

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 3:32:47 AM

pasternakski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter
I like the name Road To Versailles too, catchy :)

I dunno, Frank, "Road to Versailles" presupposes Allied victory.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 18

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 10:36:24 AM

GWL_Tim

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I think the name implies it covers just the early stages too. The Great War 1914 -1918 would have been my choice. Or even something like Paths of Glory. Anyway its only a name.
As for casualties I can't remember the figures off the top of head but the 5000 quoted sounds about right - it would cover sick, wounds, dead etc. By the way the majority of deaths and wounds were caused by artillery so it was a constant attrition and large upheavals in battle. The highest single day for the Brits was the first day of the Somme. And it was I believe also the costliest battle. For the French is was the first three months of the war (lost something like a million men) - not Verdun as is usually supposed. Those red trousers attracted Machine gun bullets!
Not sure about the Germans but I think it was the 1918 spring offensive which were also the biggest battle the british Army has ever taken part in (according to my Osprey book on the subject).

< Message edited by GWL_Tim -- 4/1/2004 8:34:59 AM >

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 19

RE: THE GUNS OF AUGUST - 4/1/2004 1:51:56 PM

Caranorn

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Don't really like the namechange myself. First, Trench wasn't all that bad (Bloody stinking Trench might have been better though;-). Second, whatever the origin of the title, Guns of August tends to remind veteran players of the Avalon Hill game and these two games obviously ain't related.

In general I don't think it's a good idea to use a name which is either identical or very similar to the name of a previous game. Unless of course it's derived from said game. Considering that WWI hasn't been all that much covered in wargaming (ok I have some 8-9 games on the subject, many recently published, so it's no longer an empty wasteland, but still few games compared to WWII) I think a more original name would have been found.

Marc aka Caran...

(in reply to GWL_Tim)

Post #: 20

Road to Versailles - 4/1/2004 10:47:25 PM

Greyshaft

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter
I like the name Road To Versailles too, catchy :)

I dunno, Frank, "Road to Versailles" presupposes Allied victory.

Unless its German Tanks on the "Road to Versailles"...

or maybe even Bob Hope and Bing Crosby

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 21

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/1/2004 10:53:40 PM

pasternakski

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Well, that's why the French planted trees along all their roads, you know, so that the Germans wouldn't have to march in the hot sun.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 22

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/13/2004 6:05:04 AM

Oleg Mastruko

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Discussing the name of the game?

As a non-native english speaker (yeah one can tell

) I find the name "Guns of August 1914-1918" wrong to the point of being ridicolous. I mean, if we have "guns of august", then we can't have "1914-1918" part can we?

Does that mean the game will cover only five Augusts, of each year, skipping the 11-month periods in between?

BTW I have Tuchman's book, tried to read it after all the praise it got, but found it very dry so I never went beyond several dozen opening pages: this king said that to that king, then this queen intervened to try to postpone the inevitable, then that king did this etc etc - kinda boring, and I got the impression the author never got the Balkan/Serbia/Sarajevo/A-H part right (though I may be wrong here, not having went beyond the opening pages). And IIRC book deals specifically with the first month of the war, so the title is appropriate (for the book, but not for the game dealing with 4 years of conflict).

And I do agree Trench is also bad name for the game

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 23

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/17/2004 8:50:32 AM

mogami

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Hi I always liked Tuchman. She wrote very entertaining books. I loved "March of Folly"
If your going to name a game after a war I suggest calling it what the people who fought in it called it. "The Great War"

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Post #: 24

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/17/2004 11:54:15 PM

VictorH

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Try Keegan's book on WWI.

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Post #: 25

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/24/2004 5:17:26 PM

Jonathan Palfrey

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I have to agree with Oleg that "Guns of August 1914-1918" suggests a certain mental confusion. Either the game is about August, or it's about a four-year war. You can't have it both ways.

"Guns of August" would be acceptable by itself as poetic licence (though in principle it's inaccurate and misleading). I agree that "World War I" is boring and "Trench" is bad marketing. You might almost as well call a game "Diarrhoea".

"The Great War" would be OK, though still a bit boring.

Bear in mind that there's a much older game on the same subject called "Diplomacy", which has been been rather successful over the years. The author achieved a marketing triumph by giving his wargame a non-specific title with no mention of war in it.

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)

Post #: 26

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/24/2004 5:45:39 PM

pasternakski

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Even more, I suspect that the game doesn't always end in 1918, making the title factually wrong.

Oh, well. I don't care if they call it "Mama's got a squeezebox, Daddy never sleeps at night," I just want to get it and play it.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 27

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/27/2004 5:10:49 AM

decourcy

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Oleg,

Please try to re-read 'Guns of August'!

I was giving a lecture on literature/problems in the American educational system and i was asked what i felt was the best 20th century work of fiction and i replied "Guns of August".

So i am having an apoplectic attack now!

michael

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Post #: 28

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/27/2004 7:25:08 AM

mogami

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Hi, How about "Over the top" I recall reading a book by that name when I was much younger (grade school)

Never mind I see some game called Half life has a WWI mod called over the top.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 4/27/2004 12:29:12 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Road to Versailles - 4/27/2004 9:24:15 AM

Oleg Mastruko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: decourcy

Oleg,

Please try to re-read 'Guns of August'!

I was giving a lecture on literature/problems in the American educational system and i was asked what i felt was the best 20th century work of fiction and i replied "Guns of August".

So i am having an apoplectic attack now!

michael

Oh I will read it for sure, and I do believe it's worth all the praises it got... I just wasn't in a mood at the time... Actually I almost never quit reading the book (any book), just postpone it. And it's easier to postpone reading when you have the book in your own library (as opposed to other books that you borrowed from your buddies etc.)

One, and perhaps the only book I really did quit was Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe, back in high school - I really dropped that one down after 40-50 pages resolved never to take it again (boring and badly written IMO)

BTW, are you sure GoA if "work of fiction"?