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- 11/10/2001 8:22:00 PM   
pax27

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/19/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

Also, I'd like to include Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen -AT missile, but I've yet to find enough data. Anyone with tech specs, please let me know
A few links that should be intresting, some are in german but it´s easy to make out the simpler data you might need:
German Secret Weapons of WWII
Luftwaffe, German Page
Another German Page
English Site About Panzerfausts Hope this helps, I didn´t check them that carefully. BTW, I already use your SPWaW sounds Colonel and there really good! [ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: pax27 ]



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Post #: 31
- 11/10/2001 8:58:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by pax27:
BTW, I already use your SPWaW sounds Colonel and there really good!
I don't want to take credit of something I haven't done. Those excellent soundfiles are not made by me but Peregrine Falcon Colonel von Blitz PS. Thanks for those sites, I'm familiar with first one, but the others were new ones for me. Thanks! [ November 10, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel von Blitz ]



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Post #: 32
- 11/11/2001 3:14:00 PM   
kao16

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Colonel von Blitz:
Also, I'd like to include Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen -AT missile, but I've yet to find enough data. Anyone with tech specs, please let me know Colonel von Blitz

I have tried some numbers for the X-7 (under V4.5). There is a description and short discussion of how they worked at: http://www.matrixgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000056

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Post #: 33
- 11/12/2001 4:36:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline 		Thanks, with that info I was able to create at least some sort of X-7. Gotta still look for info to get it more "realistic" I also decided to modify Wurfrahmen ranges, but I ran into a little problem: though I assigned the minimum range for a weapon (using the max APCR value), it still allows player to fire to closer ranges than assigned. I wanted to give 300 metres or 6 hexes for min range, so I used 24 for max APCR value. Despite this, I can still fire indirect bombardments through Bombardment-menu... Colonel von Blitz

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--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--

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Post #: 34
- 11/12/2001 6:56:00 PM   
pax27

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/19/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Colonel von Blixt, I´d love to check your german related OOB´s out. If you want to share em, post here and I´ll give you my e-mail adress (although I think I have it avaliable in my profile).

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Post #: 35
- 11/12/2001 8:41:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by pax27:
Colonel von Blixt, I´d love to check your german related OOB´s out. If you want to share em, post here and I´ll give you my e-mail adress (although I think I have it avaliable in my profile).
Your profile has email-address...if it's working, you should have some mail already Colonel von Blitz

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--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--

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Post #: 36
- 11/13/2001 5:18:00 AM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline 		UPDATE! These are changes made to my OOBs so far. I would still need some help to get the minimum range setting to work properly. At the moment howitzers and rockets fire indirect bombardments closer than indicated with minimum range setting. Ideas to correct this, anyone?? Anyway, here I go at the moment: - gave (almost) every HQ a command car. - gave Elite Recon -status to all scouts and to FOs and FO vehicles which didn't have it for some reason. - created Mobile FO (1 x Forward Observer + 1 x utility vehicle) for several countries. - removed 'multipliers' from mortars, now they are more reasonably priced. However, players should note historical doctrines when using mortars! - edited German SPA platoon to SPA Battery, which had six SPA vehicles. Lowered every nations SPA prices just a little bit (they were expensive, so I never saw them used in PBEM games, maybe this helps) - reduced japanese 50mm knee mortar accuracy from 28 -> 8 (8 is the usual accuracy given to small mortars). Previous setting made it too good an AT weapon considered that it is supposed to be a mortar. - removed japanese 75mm Mtn Bty (range of the 75mm T94 gun is 25 hexes, making it useless OB weapon). - reduced .30 cal MG (x2) HE kill value from incredible 120(!!) -> 23 (usual twin mount HE kill 20 - 24). - reduced quad .50 cal HE kill value from 32 to 28. (it's supposed to be a meat chopper, but I wanted to tone it down just a little bit) - edited german 37mm PAK stats. Made one 37mm PAK available from 36-41 without APCR ammo, and the other is now available 42-44 with 20 APCR shots. - created unarmed bunker that has carry capacity of about 160 (enough room for 1 - 1½ platoon). I gave enough armor to withstand arty. Men get out if one shoots at it directly, but they stay inside even if being hit with indirect weapons.(available in Czech purchase screen) - made Train available in the Norway OOB.
(available in Norway purchase screen) - made 380mm Railroad Gun available in the Italian OOB and I also modified it a bit.
(available in Italy purchase screen) - created Siege Howitzer, available in the Netherlands OOB. I used Napalm class weapon to give this gun enough killing power, hence the flame-effect.
(available in Netherlands purchase screen) - removed allied names from japanese planes (now Ki-43 is Hayabusa, not Oscar etc.). - moved some german equipment (units that I've never or very rarely used) into Czech OOB and moved some equipment into German OOB just so that I can buy them with german national characteristics. Following (ex-german) units must now be bought from Czech purchase screen: gliders (DFS 230)
R-Boot
Focke-Wulf 189 Uhu
all captured tanks
amphibious tanks In addition, one can now purchase from Czech purchase screen:
German 170mm Howitzers
Pz VII Löwe (uses King Tiger -icon)
E-100 (uses Maus -icon)
Arado 234 bomber
several ammo carriers
several wheeled and tracked SPAA vehicles
plus much more!
Next new units can now be bought from German purchase screen: Fl Wg B-2(f)
Pz 39H RAK (edited to have 4 HE rockets)
Panther F
Panther II
Tiger II P2Turm
12.8cm Pz Sfl V (quite like Nashorn, but with 128mm ATG)
10.5cm K18 auf Panzer Selbstfahrlafette IVa
SdKfz 231 6-rad
Me 262A-2a JaBo
SS machinegun section and platoon (elite)
SS inf-AT section (elite)
Kramer X-7 Rotkäppchen Anti-Tank missile
Stuka zu Fuss (6 HE rockets with range of 2000m)
Stuka zu Fuss (6 flame rockets with range of 2200m) I have not that much knowledge on allied equipment, so anyone knowing flaws on the allied side units, let me know Colonel von Blitz

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Post #: 37
- 11/13/2001 6:30:00 AM   
asgrrr

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 9/18/2001
From: Iceland
Status: offline 		Sounds good. I always love to hear how people are using their creativity... within reason of course. Did you create german SMG units already? I did, and also I added german semiauto rifles, Gew 41/43. Similar in game terms to each other and to other large semiauto rifles in the game. I created a german squad that uses it, from june 1941. Also note that captured Tokarev rifles were popular, and with similar stats there is no need to create seperate weapons. This squad I classify as medium infantry, as do I the SMG squad. In each regular platoon, then, there is one "medium" squad, either SMG or semiauto.
Something else I did the other day also: Soviet guards SMG squad carrying a US bazooka. Appears jan44, class medium inf, rarity 3 (never appear elsewhere). I include one in every guards company. Before they appear, or when they run out because of rarity, their place is taken by a regular SMG squad (also medium inf). Would have liked it to be elite inf class, but that gave too much trouble. In any case, the regular squads also get the +10 bonus. One question: Why flame to the siege thing? Can't you get the desired mess by warhead and kill alone?

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Never hate your enemy.
It clouds your judgement.

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Post #: 38
- 11/13/2001 7:51:00 AM   
kao16

 

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/10/2000
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline 		Colonel von Blitz Are you planning on posting your OOBs to a web site sometime soon? alternatively could you post them to me please?

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Post #: 39
- 11/13/2001 9:23:00 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline 		Here's a few for you: All HQ units should be given special flag 11
Canada Mustang unit 202 should have speed 6 (not 7)
Fin HMG's ned to be reclassed. Make all ski HMG's machine gun class and all other HMG's heavy machine gun class.
Give SW machine gun code x3 also the MG that is used in the coastal forts.
Not perfect but better.
Nationalise all crewmen.
Is the m36 Jackson too early? Should it not be available in late 1944?
All Recon formations should have special flag 1 (or 11)

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

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Post #: 40
- 11/13/2001 9:32:00 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Panzer Leo:
No, they don't
Test it yourself and you'll see, that a mortarx3 will not cause the same suppression and damage three mortarx1 will do. I don't know, where the problem is,

Did you adjust the rate of fire when you reduced the number of tubes?
Should you? Don't forget that when the game is designed, certain parameters are taken into consideration and some factors are hard-coded. So change all the platoons to 1 mortar times 3 andreduce the ROF to 2 (one third) and repeat the test.

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 41
- 11/13/2001 9:34:00 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Mikimoto:
, How where the use of indirect fire for artillery batteries?
Didn't they fire as a whole battery against a single point or area?
If you use your onboard howitzers to fire at point targets, you will dissipate their firepower. They are far more effective when they all fire on one target (and if the target is in LOS of the spotter). It is not the game that is at fault if you choose to not use your batteries as one.

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 42
- 11/13/2001 9:39:00 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
If the effectiveness is in fact a problem, you can get around it by creating a "real" x3 unit etc. Copy the mortar and make a new unit with 3 weapons, 3 times the men and 3 times the price.
This will not work. Only the weapon in slot one will be used for indirect fire unless there has been a code change. See the Japanese light mortar units that were built in exactly this manner. They are perfect for either indirect or direct fire. But watch your ammo. Incidentally, remember how in earlier versions some of the SPA units would fire their machine guns indirectly? That was coded out.

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 43
- 11/13/2001 9:48:00 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by skukko:
What I've done: First custom OOB to get Finnish SS troops. [/QB]
Finnish SS troops were part of the German army and not a part of the Finnish Army. So buy German SS and rename them if you must.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
quote:


Snorkel and tank: without snorkel 4-6 feet depth, with it to 18 feet depth. Rarity and use of these is beyond my knowledge.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
mosh [/QB]
Tauchpanzer III could operate at a depth of 15 metres (sealion)
168 were converted from MkIII tanks ausf F, G and H, also PzBefWg 42 were converted from MkIV. Used 22 June 1941- River Bug

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 44
- 11/13/2001 11:46:00 AM   
Galka

 

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/30/2000
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline 		Some of the best ideas I've read about lately on this forum regarding OOB rationization are as follows: 1. Seperate Flamethrowers from Engineer squads. 2. Give germans some close assault weapon squads.
i.e. Mp38s , teller mines, sticky bombs. 3. Change point cost to reflect rarity. (There'd be less TigerIIs on the battlefield if they cost 5 times a T-34). 4. Prohibit long range weapons such as a Nebel werfer from firing point-blank to great effect if not an actual attribute. 5.Bunkers, and SPWs that passengers can fire from and take losses in. (probably not an OOB issue). 6. Effective organic artillery. 75mm, 88s(against infantry); 150mm guns (that can't kill troops, crack fortifications, or penetrate tanks, fire indirect, and have little use to anyone except to folks who like TO&E's.) Q1 Does anyone have any/many of these features built into a series of OOBs already? Q2 What does it take to find folks to play PBEM with revised OOBS? Q3 Does it bother anyone that we often fight battles with weapons that hardly existed, because they are better than the common yet less effective weapons?

_____________________________

"In light of my experience, I consider that your conclusion that the attacker needs a three to one superiority is under the mark, rather than over it. I would say that, for success, the attacker needs six to one or seven to one against a well-knit defence

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 45
- 11/13/2001 2:12:00 PM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Sorry Major Destruction but renaming was not what I was after. Here it is again: What I've done: First custom OOB to get Finnish SS troops. Project cancelled because pbems and online games need same OOBs for both. Next try and test was to buy under the Nations-button Finnish riflemens and changing them in scenarioeditor to German SS. This way I had similar weapons in all multinational SS- Division. And as tests showed: I had characteristics in there. Its that National characteristics I wanted. It works when done as second try showed.First try went to oob-hell...Best thing by doing this is that in campaign I do get fresh mens under Finlands flag and their names are finnish as it should be. Doing other way this and I do get Germans. mosh

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salute

mosh

If its not rotten, shoot again

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 46
- 11/13/2001 2:48:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Penetrator:
One question: Why flame to the siege thing? Can't you get the desired mess by warhead and kill alone?
Yep, that's the reason for using napalm-class for siege howitzer. Maybe not that realistic, but now it kills nicely I decided not to mess that much with current infantry squads, so I pretty much leave them as is...new infantry squads would require space from unit-list and at the moment, my german OOB is really filled I also got other very good suggestions here (some of which I will use in my OOBs), thanks everyone...keep them coming Colonel von Blitz

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Post #: 47
- 11/13/2001 4:25:00 PM   
Panzer Leo

 

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Major Destruction:

Did you adjust the rate of fire when you reduced the number of tubes?
Should you? Don't forget that when the game is designed, certain parameters are taken into consideration and some factors are hard-coded. So change all the platoons to 1 mortar times 3 andreduce the ROF to 2 (one third) and repeat the test.
ROF is set by unit, not the formation, like the x2 or x3 factor is. All mortars of same caliber have same ROF. In case of 81mm/82mm it's 7. The multiplier comes in the formation setup and there it uses the same basic mortar unit (with ROF 7) for either x1, x2 or x3.
So reducing the ROF would not be correct or helpful.
But as Paul said, the multipliers will be gone in 7.0 anyway...

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[URL=http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php] [IMG]http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/PzLeos-H2H-Title-1.jpg[/IMG] [/URL]

Mir nach, ich folge euch !

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 48
- 11/13/2001 4:27:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Galka:
Some of the best ideas I've read about lately on this forum regarding OOB rationization are as follows: 1. Seperate Flamethrowers from Engineer squads. 2. Give germans some close assault weapon squads.
i.e. Mp38s , teller mines, sticky bombs. 3. Change point cost to reflect rarity. (There'd be less TigerIIs on the battlefield if they cost 5 times a T-34). 4. Prohibit long range weapons such as a Nebel werfer from firing point-blank to great effect if not an actual attribute. 5.Bunkers, and SPWs that passengers can fire from and take losses in. (probably not an OOB issue).
1. excellent idea, I started working on it! 2. deleted early german rifle squad (1930-1934, edited squad available 1935 onwards to be available 1930 ->) and created SMG infantry instead. Game uses this squad as platoon and company leaders. Created also SS SMG sqd which is used as company and platoon leaders. 3. Changing the whole cost-system is what I'd prefer, but the amount of work to be done to achieve this is overwhelming. So I choose to price units as now, but I trust players to know about the actual rarity of different equipment and hope that players buy stuff that isn't necessarily state-of-the-art but what was actually used at that time. 4. I'm working on this, if you read my posts, you'll see that I'm asking for help with this issue. 5. I think this issue has more to do with game engine than OOBs. Colonel von Blitz

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Post #: 49
- 11/13/2001 4:51:00 PM   
Panzer Leo

 

Posts: 526
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Galka:
Q1 Does anyone have any/many of these features built into a series of OOBs already? Q2 What does it take to find folks to play PBEM with revised OOBS? Q3 Does it bother anyone that we often fight battles with weapons that hardly existed, because they are better than the common yet less effective weapons?
to 1:
Yes, some of it. to 2:
One set of overworked OOBs, that is regarded as "unbiased" and historically correct to 3:
Yes, it does bother me a lot... ...and that is why I'm working on a set of OOBs, that is specially designed for PBEM. Many of your desired features are in there, aswell as some others mentioned here. I will post it after v7.0, that way it will be based on the latest from Matrix. A feature, not mentioned here will be e.g. divebomber abilities for Stuka, Dauntless, Val... But different as the Colonel, I banned most of the super rare and unique stuff from the German OOB to get space for the common things (e.g. more normal infantry types). My "custom German OOB package" on Tankheads site gives a hint, what to expect from the German OOB, but some changes have been made since then (and it is based on an older Matrix version)...
The most changes made are belonging to the German OOB, but I also included some general ones or specially for the U.S. or Soviets. ...work is 80% completed and the rest can be done only after v7.0 is posted...

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[URL=http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/spwaw_h2h_modrework.php] [IMG]http://www.theblitz.org/member_sites/panzer_leo_spw@w/PzLeos-H2H-Title-1.jpg[/IMG] [/URL]

Mir nach, ich folge euch !

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 50
- 11/13/2001 9:26:00 PM   
Warhorse


Posts: 5712
Joined: 5/12/2000
From: Birdsboro, PA, USA
Status: offline 		Q2 What does it take to find folks to play PBEM with revised OOBS I would love to play folks with my reworked oob's, (I have used the seperate flame teams, among much more), unfortunately, my shp files are also WAY different from everyone elses in my custom install!!

_____________________________

Mike Amos

Meine Ehre heißt Treue
www.cslegion.com

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 51
- 11/13/2001 9:50:00 PM   
asgrrr

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 9/18/2001
From: Iceland
Status: offline
quote:


This will not work. Only the weapon in slot one will be used for indirect fire unless
there has been a code change.

It will too! Just try it and see. Incidentally, I made an experiment with triple mortars x 1 vs single mortars x 3. The result was 18 kills vs 7 against similar targets. The effectiveness of x2 x3 units does seem questionable.

_____________________________

Never hate your enemy.
It clouds your judgement.

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Post #: 52
- 11/14/2001 4:17:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		It should work for mortar class units, some other class units don't support inderct fire except for the first tube. (SP arty IIRC) Check again on mortars, MD, as it seemed to work OK for me...3 mortars in slots 1, 2, and 3 seemed to work correctly.

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Post #: 53
- 11/14/2001 8:00:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		I just checked them and they seem to work fine

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Post #: 54
- 11/14/2001 5:27:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline 		Hi everyone!
I decided to release my modified OOBs, I have some more ideas for modifications but I will wait v7.0 OOBs before making any more changes. Until then, comments about my modifications are more than welcome. Get them, and Peregrine Falcons excellent sound files too, at: http://www24.brinkster.com/vonblitz/spwawsounds.htm Colonel von Blitz [ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Colonel von Blitz ]



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Post #: 55
- 11/15/2001 3:07:00 PM   
Uglykid

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 4/12/2001
From: Helsinki, Finland
Status: offline 		Hi Blitz
I played my first Hotseat game with your OOB files. I and my opponent both liked them very much! Nice work! I especially liked the chances in Engineer teams and Flamethrower power. Cant wait your OOBs after V7.0 is released! Jatka hyvää työtä, kiitos!

_____________________________

Im not crazy - I am Animator

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Post #: 56
- 11/15/2001 3:28:00 PM   
Colonel von Blitz

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Uglykid:
Jatka hyvää työtä, kiitos!
Näin oli ajatus tehdäkin, kunhan vaan v7.0 tulee ulos. Nyt ei vaan jaksa tehdä lisämuutoksia kun kädet syyhyää itsekin jo pelaamaan muokatuilla filuilla pari PBEM-matsia Colonel von Blitz

_____________________________

--Light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak--

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 57
- 11/16/2001 7:13:00 PM   
pax27

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/19/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Oh, god...they went all finnish on us

_____________________________


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Post #: 58
- 11/16/2001 10:45:00 PM   
asgrrr

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 9/18/2001
From: Iceland
Status: offline 		Það er erfitt að naglalakka kakkalakka. Figure this out, heee-heee-heee....

_____________________________

Never hate your enemy.
It clouds your judgement.

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 59
- 11/17/2001 12:56:00 PM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber:
It should work for mortar class units, some other class units don't support inderct fire except for the first tube. (SP arty IIRC) Check again on mortars, MD, as it seemed to work OK for me...3 mortars in slots 1, 2, and 3 seemed to work correctly.

But not Light mortars?

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Colonel von Blitz)
Post #: 60
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