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Can leaders gain experience?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Can leaders gain experience? Page: [1]
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Can leaders gain experience? - 4/28/2004 10:51:37 PM   
madflava13


Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline 		I know we can replace "bad" leaders with Political Points, but if we choose not to, will those leaders gain experience and possibly increase their ratings? Or are those stats hard-coded?

Also, I know units can "train up" for operations, but how do they gain experience beyond that? By winning fights or just being involving in combat?

Thanks in advance for any insight you guys can provide!

Added to FAQ

< Message edited by Kid -- 5/2/2004 3:56:52 AM >

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/28/2004 10:56:15 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline 		Some leaders definitely should not be able to gain experience and increase ratings… I’m talking about leaders like McArthur

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/28/2004 10:57:13 PM   
mbatch729


Posts: 537
Joined: 5/23/2001
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		That also begs the question, can leaders be promoted? Got a great Captain, can you make him a Rear Admiral, etc?

< Message edited by mbatch729 -- 4/28/2004 3:59:56 PM >

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/28/2004 11:54:05 PM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mbatch729

That also begs the question, can leaders be promoted? Got a great Captain, can you make him a Rear Admiral, etc?


Not a bad idea. Doolittle was a Lt. Col. during the Tokyo Raid. He ended up in command of 8th Air Force in Europe and then of I forget which numbered Air Force in the Pacific (with 3 or 4 stars by the end of the war). See his autobiography "I Could Never Be So Lucky Again"

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 1:02:42 AM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
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quote:

Some leaders definitely should not be able to gain experience and increase ratings… I’m talking about leaders like McArthur


Why? Does Mac start at the highest rating or do just hold the opinion that he never learned anything?

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 1:23:51 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

Some leaders definitely should not be able to gain experience and increase ratings… I’m talking about leaders like McArthur


Why? Does Mac start at the highest rating or do just hold the opinion that he never learned anything?

Whatever you think about MacArthur, one thing he did figure out, was how to do amphibious assault; nobody ever did or ever will come close to the sheer number of operations his forces undertook in New Guinea, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Korea.

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 2:14:11 AM   
USSMaine

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 12/23/2001
From: Maine (USA)
Status: offline 		ol Duggout Doug had a great staff ..... too bad they don't get the credit

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 2:33:15 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

Some leaders definitely should not be able to gain experience and increase ratings… I’m talking about leaders like McArthur


Why? Does Mac start at the highest rating or do just hold the opinion that he never learned anything?


I just don’t like McArthur, he probably was one of the worst US commanders, without skilled and really talented officers who worked with him he was helpless… and as public person he was… well you know. I can’t understand people who say that Nimitz and McArthur were the greatest US strategists of the Pac war, these two are obviously incomparable, in my opinion.

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 2:38:48 PM   
DoomedMantis


Posts: 1922
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I couldnt agree more

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 2:50:48 PM   
Hoplosternum


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline 		I am not a fan of MacArthur either but I am not sure that he got significantly worse as the war went on.

Also what is the answer to the question Do commanders get better (or change)? If they do does it depend on time or combat experience? Will leaders aggressiveness and inspiration change or just their skill and admin? And are promotions possible?

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Post #: 10
RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 3:31:03 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Good questions......

I remember even in the good ol PACWAR days leaders ratings would improve.

I swear I remember hearing that in UV leaders ratings improve overtime but i've never SEEN any numerical increase in the leaders values in UV.

Gentleman?

Regards,

Steven

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Post #: 11
RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 5:53:51 PM   
McNaughton

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 4/13/2004
Status: offline 		MacArthur, like many other famous generals (Montgomery for instance) basically were good or bad because their risks either paid off (Inchon, El Alemain) or they didn't (Philippines 1942, Market Garden, North Korea/China). Their general success can be attributed not to strategic brilliance (they really didn't come up with the plans which won), but rather accepting, or taking the risk, of a risky plan. This is attributed to brilliance when it pays off, and incompetence when it doesn't. However, in any case, it is generally wreckless when all that you do is take substantial risks when fighting your wars, which is why generals like Montgomery and MacArthur are more dangerous than valuable.

I don't think leaders should face experience increase improving their values. It isn't like you could get Lt.General Percival to be an equivalent to General Patton by just exposing him to battles. Usually a leader was either Good, Competent, or Incompetent from day one they take command, they might face some slight improvements, becoming accustomed to commanding at that level, with the equipment and personel provided.

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Post #: 12
RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 6:01:18 PM   
Jaypea

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe you can think of an improvement in a leader as an improvement in the "staff" that supports him? This way a leader improves because he chooses better staff and uses them better as time goes on. I think in most cases the generals took key staff meembers with them as they changed position.

My two cents

JP

< Message edited by Jaypea -- 4/29/2004 4:03:57 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 6:48:16 PM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline 		Can we move the Macarthur debate elsewhere and have a developer or playtester answer the original question?

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 6:55:56 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		one that can be said for Mac.....he did learn from his mistakes. After the ordeal of Buna-Gona, he resolved never to attack a strong Japanese position head on again (This being the same man who wanted to take Rabaul as soon as possible)

He then oversaw the formation of the Island/base hopping tactics that sped up the resolution of the war and saved many lives.

Judging leaders is always difficult becuase its hard to seperate their acomplishments and military skills with their personalities. To be sure Mac had his faults, and they were as legendary as his skills. He was not a great team player and his ego was montrous. The latter alone will never see him being popular in Australian circles who felt, (with some considerable justification) that he downplayed their role in the New Guinia campaign. (his most famous boo boo being his tendancy to label Allied forces with a larger American contingent as "American forces are blah blah at X location, while if the Oz force was the majority player it was "Allied forces are blah blah at X location) Certainly he'd have never survived in the ETO where generalship alone was not the requirement, but serious diplomatic skills as well.

But i digress.....to get back on topic......yes, leaders are supposed to be able to improve in skill though its a slow process IIRC.

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RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 9:06:19 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		There was a program on TV, either this year or last year, called "Macarthur: American Shogun". It was about Macarthur's restoration of Japan after WW2. He did a lot to get teh country up and running. All of his efforts paid off when the US was able to use Japan as a basing point for the Korean war a few years later. Seems like we need a Macarthur in Iraq today.

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Post #: 16
RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 4/29/2004 11:06:00 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

Yes. Yes, they can.

Bye...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

Can we move the Macarthur debate elsewhere and have a developer or playtester answer the original question?

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Post #: 17
RE: Can leaders gain experience? - 5/1/2004 7:01:55 AM   
returnfire

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/13/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy
I remember even in the good ol PACWAR days leaders ratings would improve.


(Just checked to be sure) In PacWar, while the leaders' naval and aggresiveness ratings will not improve, they can have their air and land ratings improved.

In one of my games against the AI, MacArthur's air and land ratings both improved to 9. I also purposely put Halsey on transport TF's and then CINC in SoPac, which raised his rating to Naval 7/Air 9/Land 9/Aggressiveness 9 (almost a perfect commander )I also tried an unhistorical strategy with the China theater by placing all 12 KMT armies in one base to fend of the Japanese. Soon the units have their experiences improved to 50-60 (with heavy losses of course) and Chiang Kai-Shek's Land Rating improved all the way to 9. (Hey-- if this is what happened historically, I'm sure that they would be able to defeat the communists )

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Post #: 18
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