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Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/4/2004 10:27:56 PM

Slick91

Posts: 269
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From: Charleston, SC USA
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Just finished �Storm on the Horizon: Khafji--The Battle that Changed the Course of the Gulf War� � outstanding piece of work about a much forgotten battle.

I�m halfway through �Thunder Run: The Armored Strike to Capture Baghdad� and I can�t put it down. This is a fantastic piece of well written journalism without the political BS thrown in such as any of Rick Atkinson's books. It is one of the best books to date about the battle for Baghdad.

In liking with �Thunder Run� is �The March Up: Taking Baghdad with the 1st Marine Division�. These two books go hand in hand. No politics, just good journalism (which is very rare these days).

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/4/2004 11:38:31 PM

Rummy

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Joined: 3/19/2004
From: Arizona
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I never read Atkinson's 'Crusade' because it did look pretty political, but I recently picked up 'An Army at Dawn', and so far, have been impressed. It's a little choppy, but very readable and not political.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/4/2004 11:48:53 PM

Slick91

Posts: 269
Joined: 12/30/2002
From: Charleston, SC USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rummy

I never read Atkinson's 'Crusade' because it did look pretty political, but I recently picked up 'An Army at Dawn', and so far, have been impressed. It's a little choppy, but very readable and not political.

I did read �In the Company of Soldiers� by Atkinson, and it was one of the worst pieces of crap to pass as balanced journalism I�ve ever had the displeasure to read. In fact, I never finished the last parts of it. It is the only book I�ve ever read that actually made me so angry at the one-sided, anti-Bush, political bashing persistently throughout the book, I actually threw it across the room. I�ve never picked it back up since.

In my opinion, �An Army At Dawn� he loves to take repeated pop shots at the Allied High Command to a point that it seems almost a God given miracle that the Allies won World War II.

Sorry, but it didn�t pass muster for me. Just my two cents.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/4/2004 11:55:12 PM

Custer1961

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I read the Atkinson book "Army at Dawn" earlier this year. I do agree it was choppy. He seems to have left out the most successful element of the US Army in North Africa...the artillery. Of the infantry, armor, supply and artillery branches, it was the artillery that demonstrated any resonable level of competence and was a significant factor in stemming the retreats at Kasserine. Although I was disappointed with this aspect of the book, I found that overall I really enjoyed it. He was very good at discussing the clash of command personalities and did not hesitate to go after Eisenhower. Eisenhower comes off pretty badly in this book.

I am currently reading the Cornelius Ryan books (A Bridge to Far, The Last Battle, The Longest Day). I had read them 20+ years ago and thought they were great and once again, I have found them to be fantastic. They also have great maps and drawings that make it easy to follow the battles. Lack of good maps are the biggest killer in reading military history books in my opinion.

I do agree with Slick91 that Political Correctness is getting not only getting scary but is severely damaging the unbiased review of military history. Just finished a book, Touched by Fire by Louise Barnett about General Custer. The author is an academic and the PC distortion in the book was truly heart breaking. I fear for our culture when truth is subjagated to political idealogy.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/5/2004 12:01:31 AM

KG Erwin

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Thanks for your reviews, gentlemen. If you want some other reviews of Military History books, go to this SPWaW Depot thread: http://spwaw.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=919

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/5/2004 12:55:31 AM

wodin

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From: England
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Just read all of Derek Robinson's books.

War Story
Hornets Sting
Goshawk Squadron

Piece of Cake
Good Clean Fight
Damn Good Show.

Highly reccomended First three are WW1 second three WW2 fictional accounts of Hornet Squadron, full of dark humour (Catch 22) and great dogfight narrative.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/5/2004 4:04:39 PM

Slick91

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Thanks for your reviews, gentlemen.

HOW DARE YOU SIR, ISSUES SUCH FALSE ALLEGATIONS!

Why, there hasn't been a gentleman in my family for generations!

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Slick
-----------------------------
"Life's tough, it's tougher if you're stupid."
-John Wayne

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/5/2004 11:36:39 PM

FlashfyreSP

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From: Combat Information Center
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Slick91]
I did read �In the Company of Soldiers� by Atkinson, and it was one of the worst pieces of crap to pass as balanced journalism I�ve ever had the displeasure to read. In fact, I never finished the last parts of it. It is the only book I�ve ever read that actually made me so angry at the one-sided, anti-Bush, political bashing persistently throughout the book, I actually threw it across the room. I�ve never picked it back up since.

In my opinion, �An Army At Dawn� he loves to take repeated pop shots at the Allied High Command to a point that it seems almost a God given miracle that the Allies won World War II.

Sorry, but it didn�t pass muster for me. Just my two cents.

One man's political bashing is another man's insightful analysis. Freedom of speech for one and all, I say. As for the "pop shots", I hope you haven't fallen under the spell of the propangandists, who would like us to think our commanders in WWII were infallible. Quite the contrary....many of the commanders didn't like one another, even in their own command structure. To some historians, it IS a miracle the Allies were able to pull off a win, given all the factors against them.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/6/2004 12:13:51 AM

Slick91

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

One man's political bashing is another man's insightful analysis. Freedom of speech for one and all, I say. As for the "pop shots", I hope you haven't fallen under the spell of the propangandists, who would like us to think our commanders in WWII were infallible. Quite the contrary....many of the commanders didn't like one another, even in their own command structure. To some historians, it IS a miracle the Allies were able to pull off a win, given all the factors against them.

On the contrary, I want to read a book featuring both sides of an opinion, not just one side. I also don�t mind the author inserting an opposing view from something that I may be in favor of. Mr. Atkinson�s latest work goes above and beyond offering an opposing view point of the war. He goes out of his way to repeatedly and flagrantly criticize and flat out insult every reason for going to war in Iraq. Not just in the early chapters, but all the way through the book. That sir, is not journalism, it is pushing your beliefs and shoving them down the reader�s throat. After all, he is a senior writer for the Washington Post, not exactly a conservative newspaper.

As far as my take on �An Army at Dawn�, maybe his view points are valid as his synopsis is trying to show how a green Allied Army fairs against a much battle seasoned Germany Army. I just didn�t care for his writing style and it seemed maybe a little too critical. To quote Gen. Patton, it seemed as if according to Mr. Atkinson the Allies �couldn�t fight their way out of a piss soaked paper bag.�

I also didn�t care for his writing style due to the fact that he seems to enjoy using a thesaurus a little too much. I have a Bachelor of Science degree (with honors) and I�ve never seen some of the words he includes in his writings. I�ll usually read about a book per month (typically military history of about 300 pages or so). For the most part, I can get through a book and usually find two or three words in the entire text that I�m unfamiliar with and curiously look them up in the dictionary. When reading something by Mr. Atkinson, I sometimes found myself coming across three or four words on a page that I�ve never seen before. That is very distracting when trying to absorb your self in a book. To me, that makes the author come across as arrogant and elitist. That sir is NOT what good, fair, and balanced journalism is about.

< Message edited by Slick91 -- 5/5/2004 5:13:20 PM >

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/6/2004 1:47:29 AM

Frank W.

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From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
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quote:

One man's political bashing is another man's insightful analysis. Freedom of speech for one and all, I say. As for the "pop shots", I hope you haven't fallen under the spell of the propangandists, who would like us to think our commanders in WWII were infallible. Quite the contrary....many of the commanders didn't like one another, even in their own command structure. To some historians, it IS a miracle the Allies were able to pull off a win, given all the factors against them.

mhh... not shure about that.

the allied side ( high command + officers ) worked much better together than the germans or japanese. also the coodination of the 3 branches of military was much better.

on tactical level the germans were still godd but on grand strategy they lacked ( or let�s say hitler + goering sucked ).

also there were much quite bad german commanders that reached high positions because of their involvement in the NSDAP or they were "special friends" of hitler...

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/6/2004 8:10:57 AM

FlashfyreSP

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quote:

the allied side ( high command + officers ) worked much better together than the germans or japanese. also the coodination of the 3 branches of military was much better.

Far from the way things were, I'm afraid. Many of the British commanders were openly critical of the US commanders, in a few cases to the point of open hostility. A few of them resented an American being placed in overall command of the joint-force landings.

This is not to say that there was rampant backstabbing going on, as you would find in the German system. However, all was not "wine and roses", and it was a factor in the early days of the landings.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/6/2004 11:24:19 PM

Rummy

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From: Arizona
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I'm only at page 92, so I haven't enountered that yet, but I'll keep an eye open. The main reason I've enjoyed it so far is that I'm fairly unfamiliar with the North African theater, and Atkinson's book seems to cover it pretty thoroughly.

Amen to Slick91 on the Bush bashing. Objective journalism is one thing, political hacking is another. And no one, by the way, is suggesting Atkinson doesn't have a right to print his anti-Bush crap, as FlashfyreSP claims; we just reserve the right to throw it in the trash.

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/13/2004 9:16:01 PM

JKG

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The Age of Sacred Terror- Great book with facts and background on Islamic terrorism and AQ specifically. Written before 9/11 (mostly) by former Clinton NSC staffers.

Beyond Terror- Good, but not a good as above. This one is a collection of articles. Gives some strategic thought, but doesn't deal too hard in facts.

The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors- This one is a MUST read!!! Absolutely fascinating reconstruction of the last great naval surface battle in pacific. A small group of destroyers and jeep carriers takes on the great Japanese Center Force (BBs, CAs, DDs) off the Phillipines. Can't say enough positive about this one.

Attachment (3)

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/13/2004 11:27:58 PM

Bart_Breedyk

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From: Ottawa
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Two books by Mark Zuehlke;

Ortona: Canada's Epic World War II Battle

The Liri Valley: Canada's Worls War II Breakthrough to Rome

I have read the entirity of the first, and have only just started the second. A pretty good look at what the Canucks went through in Italy without getting too terribly political. Told from many points of view through interviews with surviving veterans, including prejudices and opinions.

Both very interesting reads.

B

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RE: Books for your reading pleasure! - 5/18/2004 11:29:48 AM

Besenwesen

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From: Ruhrgebiet, Germany
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Jonathan Sumption

Trial by Fire 1 + 2

Very good and accurate books about the hundred years war

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Post #: 15