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Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2

 
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Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 5:45:53 AM   
M4Jess


Posts: 5140
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: DC
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Steel Panthers replaced for me board games and opened a grand new highway to the future for us wargamers. This was the fantasy. It was all before me. I was a closet designer then, from way back, hell even had a scen "almost posted" in AHs General magazine.

Even with the "Countless Hours and days and years", giving to this great game, mind you, I am no Wild Bill, Redleg, Brent, and others, I feel I have giving more than I have taken from this game.

I have run into sacrarium, rudeness, and down right threats. I have been called a great designer and a looser designer.

Why?

On the upper side, my design's have thousands of DLs. And the Emails keep coming in.
With that said, and the total nonsupport from Matrix, I will step down from MG and 8.2

I am not looking for a medal, Wild Bill and others such as Redleg and many others deserve the glory. I am only a half-breed designer taught by the best.

A total DL for 8.2 is a total slap in the face. BTW, just how many SPWARs should I have and my HD? How many of us have two plus SPWAW on our PCs now? This 8.2 might be grand, I don't care, I have been hearing "This is the last" for years! And 7.2 was/is much better than 8.0. H2H by Leo rules over all current Vs of SPWAR, Hell he should have stayed with 5.0 H2H and never signed up for 7.1! And I hope he never does H2H 8.0

So I am forced to ask myself, why am I still here?

Well, I love the game, but more so, I love you guys. That's the truth. But. I must warn you all, I am tired of this. One of my biggest highs was the Rman Vs Shoe in Beyond the Beachhead PBEM series. Going into Sealion and soon IWO PBEM I get into it! I sit back and make scens happen. I just don't get this 8.2 thing at all.

I feel MG wants to push out us vets out and bring in the new....so be it

Hell let um...

One more question for Matrix, then I will shut up,

Where is CL?

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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 6:13:35 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
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quote:

Where is CL?


Good question M4. I fear that it's still under construction.

Oh! and

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Post #: 2
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 6:23:07 AM   
Oxtane

 

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/16/2002
From: United States, Nebraska
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Hear! Hear Jess! Very good question!

< Message edited by Oxtane -- 5/17/2004 10:25:12 PM >


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Post #: 3
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 6:44:14 AM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
Ok... I'm agree with Jess here.

I have 3 version of Steel Panthers in my HD, but non of them are the oficial Matrix ones.
I have instaled the SPH2H.fr, the SPWW2 and the SPMBT.

I'm really waiting for CL ... but I won't buy it inmediately after it'r release ... I will wait a litte and see what some people that I knew in this forum and whos opinion I respect says about it.

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(in reply to M4Jess)
Post #: 4
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 8:20:36 AM   
varjager

 

Posts: 358
Joined: 3/25/2000
From: sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4Jess

Steel Panthers replaced for me board games and opened a grand new highway to the future for us wargamers. This was the fantasy. It was all before me. I was a closet designer then, from way back, hell even had a scen "almost posted" in AHs General magazine.

Even with the "Countless Hours and days and years", giving to this great game, mind you, I am no Wild Bill, Redleg, Brent, and others, I feel I have giving more than I have taken from this game.

I have run into sacrarium, rudeness, and down right threats. I have been called a great designer and a looser designer.

Why?

On the upper side, my design's have thousands of DLs. And the Emails keep coming in.
With that said, and the total nonsupport from Matrix, I will step down from MG and 8.2

I am not looking for a medal, Wild Bill and others such as Redleg and many others deserve the glory. I am only a half-breed designer taught by the best.

A total DL for 8.2 is a total slap in the face. BTW, just how many SPWARs should I have and my HD? How many of us have two plus SPWAW on our PCs now? This 8.2 might be grand, I don't care, I have been hearing "This is the last" for years! And 7.2 was/is much better than 8.0. H2H by Leo rules over all current Vs of SPWAR, Hell he should have stayed with 5.0 H2H and never signed up for 7.1! And I hope he never does H2H 8.0

So I am forced to ask myself, why am I still here?

Well, I love the game, but more so, I love you guys. That's the truth. But. I must warn you all, I am tired of this. One of my biggest highs was the Rman Vs Shoe in Beyond the Beachhead PBEM series. Going into Sealion and soon IWO PBEM I get into it! I sit back and make scens happen. I just don't get this 8.2 thing at all.

I feel MG wants to push out us vets out and bring in the new....so be it

Hell let um...

One more question for Matrix, then I will shut up,

Where is CL?


M4Jess, i say that you deserv a medal.Been playing you scens and i do love em.
You have devoted countless of hours for us to enjoy the game so dont be shy!


I salute you and your effort for this game ! I will stick with the 3 versions of Spwaw i allready have on my HD.

Cheers! And please start placing those mines!

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Post #: 5
If you need a copy - 5/18/2004 8:33:17 AM   
STEELER13

 

Posts: 141
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From: PHILADELPHIA
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Yo Jess,
As one of the many who enjoy your scenarios, please rest assured I will burn and send you a copy of 8.2. if you unable to download it.
Everyone else, as I said, the charitable offer is still in effect---and I am happy to send an 8.2 cd for your donation to Disabled American Vets or your local Children's Hospital(and the donation is made by you directly---not through me as someone worriedly emailed me).

That being said, after Matrix put in that awesome "true update" feature, I doubt that they would offer 8.2 as a whole new download unless they couldn't avoid it. Has it been officially stated that it will be a whole new download?
Just checking.

Thank you.


< Message edited by STEELER13 -- 5/18/2004 1:32:43 AM >


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STEELER



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RE: If you need a copy - 5/18/2004 11:26:00 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
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From: Dallas
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Steeler, I don't think anything has been stated "Officially" as of yet, but I've been wrong before.

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Jim1954
KMC/T

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Post #: 7
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 3:06:46 PM   
Jackk

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 6/2/2000
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: M4Jess

A total DL for 8.2 is a total slap in the face. BTW, just how many SPWARs should I have and my HD? How many of us have two plus SPWAW on our PCs now?


They said it will be full-only download?

I have 2 versions only. One is H2H and I wouldn't have that if a friend and I weren't PBEMing in it.

I also was one that enjoyed the DARs of Beyond the Beachhead. I found it late in the game, but went back and read all 512 :) entries so I could get the full impact of it. Great reading stuff and fun scenarios.

*Just a random post*

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Post #: 8
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 7:18:59 PM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
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It was nice to feel like I had my own personal scenario designer for a whole year taking me through the D-day action. Of course, I was on the winning side of that series of battles.

I've got three versions on my computer; v7.1, H2H.fr and v8.01. I haven't really noticed a huge difference between v7 and v8 other than the screwup of the cost of the units. I can't wait to see what was done to make us all in awe over the new "improvements."

< Message edited by rbrunsman -- 5/18/2004 10:19:42 AM >


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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 7:31:18 PM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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I haven't heard officially whether 8.2 will be available as a patch. However, considering that the full 8.2 game will be the largest free download Matrix has ever offered, I don't know if it makes any sense to offer a separate patch.

This is why I requested that guys with CD burners help distribute the full 8.2, to prevent the download servers from getting bogged down and frustrating those with dial-up connections. This is my suggestion, not Matrix'.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 5/18/2004 12:37:30 PM >


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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 10:05:44 PM   
shadow151

 

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well how bout just having a list posted of all the new files in 8.2 and someone can download the whole thing, make a patch and host on their own website? I have spwaw v8.01, spww2 and spmbt but i have v7 backedup on a cd. I think i probably will try to get a friend to download me h2h as i only have dail up.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 11
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 10:24:00 PM   
Steve Wilcox

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 8/17/2001
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

I haven't heard officially whether 8.2 will be available as a patch. However, considering that the full 8.2 game will be the largest free download Matrix has ever offered, I don't know if it makes any sense to offer a separate patch.


Uh, maybe I'm dumb, but why would it not make sense to have a patch? I would have thought a patch would be the first priority. Since when do new versions of the same game require a whole new game, instead of just a patch? It's not like we're going from SPWAW to Combat Leader.

About two-thirds of the size of the unzipped install of 8.0 is sounds...does 8.2 have all new sounds or something?

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 12
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 11:32:47 PM   
VikingNo2


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RB play the Brits them and the Russians are very much more deadly in 8.01 as sompaired to 7.1

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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/18/2004 11:58:51 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
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who said it was another full game download???

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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 1:21:59 AM   
rbrunsman


Posts: 1837
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From: Phoenix, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

RB play the Brits them and the Russians are very much more deadly in 8.01 as sompaired to 7.1


Well, I have experienced the Russians being tougher, and I'm happy to hear that the Brits are too. But none of this is an earth shattering change in the way the game plays.

People seem to be getting bent out of shape waiting for something that will have changes that are hardly noticeable as far as I'm concerned (and the vast majority of casual players). But, heck, since they OOB Team isn't sharing any of their TOP SECRET details and all is hush-hush from them, who am I to say one way or the other...

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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 2:09:58 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rbrunsman

quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

RB play the Brits them and the Russians are very much more deadly in 8.01 as sompaired to 7.1


Well, I have experienced the Russians being tougher, and I'm happy to hear that the Brits are too. But none of this is an earth shattering change in the way the game plays.

People seem to be getting bent out of shape waiting for something that will have changes that are hardly noticeable as far as I'm concerned (and the vast majority of casual players). But, heck, since they OOB Team isn't sharing any of their TOP SECRET details and all is hush-hush from them, who am I to say one way or the other...


Well, for AI players, the AI purchase routines for all major nations have been altered to provide a more challenging generated or long campaign experience. As my AARs on USMC vs Japan have demonstrated, it's definitely more challenging. Much depends on your preferences--I play with true troop ON, rarity OFF.

The rarity issue is the killer--for PBEM players, this issue and related costs are the be-all and end-all. In 8.2, many costs have been adjusted, but these same costs also have to apply to solo play. The Team has no magic wand or formula--this has been an endless subject of controversy.

This is also the thing that frustrates me the most--providing a variety of options, adding historical and in some cases what-if units, and making sure that players have the option of buying historical formations if they want, was my personal mission in contributing to the team.

Nothing is being done "in secret"-- a forum for making suggestions to 8.2 exists.

All that being said, I firmly believe that 8.2 will provide the most realistic selection for forces in all nations that we can give you. Is it perfect? No. Will it ever be perfect? No. Will there be complaints on our decisions? Yes.

We could still be arguing about imperfections in the OOBs when the sun burns out. Support for SPWaW will be an ongoing thing, but for OOB updates, I sincerely hope that 8.2 will be the end.

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RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 2:27:26 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
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From: Erie,Pa. USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Nothing is being done "in secret"-- a forum for making suggestions to 8.2 exists.



So where is the published list of changes? Why will they not talk about them? The suggestion thread are suggestions from US, which means that they are, of course, not secret. It's any information about 8.2 coming down the line that appears to be Top Secret.


Goblin

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Post #: 17
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 2:35:12 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Ok, here is the incomplete list for the USMC--many changes have been subsequently done, so I'll add them soon. These notes illustrate the collaborative nature of the OOB team's work:

"Added weapon 81 - another 4.5 Rocket with long range and add these to USMC Off Map Rocket Unit 128 weapons. Truck Rct unit 129 uses the 88 hex rockets. - Bryan -


>(notes added by Glenn Higginbotham 14 Jan 2004)
>(19 January 2004--formation availability change--see below)
>(24 January 2004--tank unit & formation changes--see below)
>(30 January 2004--amphib tank formations fixed--see below)
>Proposed Changes:
>
>Weapon/Unit/Formation# Original Stat New Stat
> (Units 21 -27 -- changed carry capacity to 13 to accomodate F squads--BM done)
>(Unit 22--added M4A1 Sherman from US Army--cost stays as is, availability April 1943-end 1945-- GH DONE)
>(Units 21, 23, 24, 25 have availability dates changed to match historical usage-- GH DONE)
>(Units 40 [M9 Bazooka] & 91 [M1 Bazooka] have accuracy changed to 8 and 4,
>respectively--GH DONE)
>(Unit 53 [Jeep 60mm]-availability in Jan 49--GH DONE)
>(Unit 55 [Jeep, 1 man crew] --classed as 32-Scout Vehicle for carrying
>Recon Teams--GH DONE) (Unit 56 [Jeep] -- increase crew size to 2--GH DONE)
>(Unit 57 [Jeep w/30 cal] -- increaded cost to 14, to match US Army--GH
>DONE)
>(Unit 110 -- Lt Mortar crews changed to 4--GH DONE)
>Formation (1045 & 1046--availability begin Jan 1949--GH DONE)
>1132 change to platoon, special set to 0 --> DONE
>
>196, 197, 198 Medium Bombers change LBM from 0 to 853---> DONE
>
>To eliminate the M8 HMC Scott, I edited unit 047--> DONE 047 M4 105mm
>Change rarity from 0 to 3 --> DONE
>
>091 M8 HMC Scott changed class from 21-SP Artillery to 10- OffMap
>artillery.--> DONE Therefore neither of the M8 HMC Scott units will be
>available for purchase but they will remain available for Campaign players
>to buy in an upgrade if they wish. Also any scenarios or campaigns that
>have used these units will continue to have the units available for use as
>the scenario designer originally intended. (EXCELLENT STUART)
>
>
>To complete the fix, formations need to be corrected.
>(Formations 1010, 1011, 1013 changed to accomodate M4A1s--GH DONE)
>1014, 1015, 1016 change start dates from January 1944 to September 1945 and
>change the unit to 047.----> DONE <------ TOE for Formation 1015 CS-Tank
>Plt needs to be checked for historicity.
>
>1016 is an illegal formation because it contains a company formation
>1018---> DONE <---- Therefore to correct the build of Formation 1016 I made
>the following changes. These changes only correct the structure of the
>formations and are not checked for historical correctness.
>
>1016 Replace Unit 4 (1018) with Unit 2 (1038) Replace Unit 2 (1038) with
>unit 030 Add units 5 and 6 Insert formations 1031 and 1034. --> DONE
>
>1019 Replace units 4 and 5 M8 HMC Scott with units 047 I suspect this
>platoon to be incorrect and that the CS vehicle should be a halftrack.
>1045 Mot Mortar -- 60mm mortar and jeep
>1046 Mot Mortar Sec -- two 60mm mortars with jeeps

>GLENN - WHAT DO YOU THINK? (Agree--replace unit 47 with unit 87--GH)
>
>who will do this?
>
>(I went ahead and made the change--see note on addition of Unit 88, the
>75mm M3A1 GMC--GH DONE)
>
>(Formations 1021 & 1022 have LCVP (211) replaced by LCM (212)--GH DONE)
>
>089 Do not change rarity from 3
>
>Unit 089 This is the M3 halftrack carrying the 75mm Howitzer for SPA duty.
>As far as I know this unit was not issued to USMC. Please check. (Not
>used--this unit should be deleted-GH)
>
>the rarity 3 code should eliminate the unit from the purchase list.
>Deleting the unit might cause problems to scenarios and campaigns. Please
>check that this unit is not available for purchase.
>
>1117, 1118 change units to 090 and availability to April 45 to 49 --> DONE
>
>087 Check availability dates especially the start date. My info says these
>were available for action in the Philippines in Dec 1941. Later versions
>carried the 75mm M1917A4 gun Maybe we can replace Unit 089 with a newer
>version of the M3 GMC? (087) GLENN---ALL FOR YOU---(There was a GMC M3A1--I
>have no specifics on it--GH)
>
>Simply copy the M3 to a new slot and replace the gun. Then change the start
>date

>to some time in 1942. There is discussion on this on the Forum.

>(OK. Unit 88 is the GMC M3A1, with the 75mm 1917A4. Unit 87 is now
>available from Dec 1941 to end 1942, and the new unit 88 avilable from Aug
>42 to end 45. Also note that weapon 34, the 75mm 1897A2, has no AP pen. I
>changed this to match what was in US Army--AP pen is now 86--GH DONE)
>
>(Formation 1023 now available beginning December 1941--GH DONE)
>
>211 LCVP has Carry Capacity of 232. This means it can load a tank. CC s/b
>1## Changed CC to 132--> DONE
>
>Weapon 109. I have mentioned this before. These weapons had a maximum range
>of 1000 yards. The rocket LCS had to get in real close to fire at the
>target Currently in OOB's these weapons have an effective range of 4800
>yards. NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT - GLENN - YOUR CALL--(Agree--max range is
>actually 1100 yards--GH)
>

>make note to check this in ALL allied OOB's.

>(Range of 4.5 Rockets changed from 224 to 88--all OOBs have been
>changed--GH DONE)
>
>If you change the class of 210 to 110-SP Rocket Launcher, the unit will
>have indirect fire capability. Move sound would have to be edited to the
>sound for landing craft. (066). Needs to be tested. NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT
>- GLENN - YOUR CALL

>(The Rocket Landing Craft were tested and sound is correct--GH DONE)
>
>cost of 210 relative to 206, 210 should be much more expensive. ---> DONE
><---
>
>1190 Landing Support Change unit to any other unit 205-209 NEED TO CHECK
>THIS OUT - GLENN - YOUR CALL--(All same type, or leave mix as is?--I don't
>use them--GH) When buying these you get either all one type (the default)
>or all a different type (your choice) If the formation is built up from a
>mixture, the player gets

>this choice of mixture first and then he can buy all one type - his choice-
>by

>selecting the choice. It is not a TOE issue but a game purchase choice
>issue."

>(I simply left the 1190 mix as it was--GH DONE)

> (Formations 1196 and 1198 now show correct configuration--GH DONE)"


I hope you don't fail to notice that we've been tweaking and testing this database for five months. For other OOBs, a similar effort has been undertaken.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 5/18/2004 7:58:42 PM >


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Post #: 18
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 6:11:28 PM   
Alby


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Well, we have seen the list of USMC changes,
a couple times now, thanks for posting them, but, Im sure Goblin was refering to more than just the USMC changes again.

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Post #: 19
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 7:04:41 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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WE, not Matrix Games necessarily, all have collectively done this to ourselves guys.

Ever since I discovered Steel Panthers WaW, I have watched as users constantly and continuously fiddled with the game.

This is our doing guys, as much as it's anyones doing.

Look at your feet, notice the bullet holes :)

Each time we have fussed over the core game, we have effectively fiddled with that which runs all of our user based creations.

It isn't Matrix Games and a few select people and always just a few select people, and always the same few select people responsible for the game currently waiting for version 8.2

We all have a hand in this.

I am not siding with any one group, because we are all collectively guilty here.

I have not minded the incessant downloads, but I am lucky. I invest the funds to possess a DSL connection, and downloading 8.2 won't really mean anything to me.

But I recall my first download pre DSL service, and man what an experience that was.
Each day we might be adding to our ranks, but each version we might be purging them as well.
Maybe that is a hidden reason the Mega Campaigns have not sold faster (I have no idea though).

That a Mega Campaign has been the most secure wargaming investment I have ever made is a given. I have yet to buy anything that even gets to being half as solid a prchase.

But each MC came out with a new version. We might have been harming ourselves while indulging ourselves.

And again, let me stress, we are all guilty. Right down to the last member that has ever posted a comment for or against a something being done to modify the game.

It's not about whether 8.2 will be the better version me thinks, but whether we are doing ourselves any favours by constantly making older versions no longer viable, and all the custom work that was done while those versions were the versions that counted.

I see a lot of scenarios out there, but I tend to only play stuff that is built into the core program download. That is because, I am always wondering, will that custom scenario work?
I ponder this openly, have we created a lack of confidence in our previous creations?

We can't constantly be re inventing the game and expect it to have no repercussions.

Thus, when 8.2 is released, it will not be important what is right or wrong with it, but whether re doing this or that is in the long run doing us any favours.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 20
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 9:45:53 PM   
Major_Johnson

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 6/29/2000
From: Beach Haven, NJ, USA
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Someone mentioned something about the Russians being tougher in 8.01. Not as far as I'm concerned. I'm currently playing the Russian side in Slaughterhouse via PBEM, and they suck ass! They hardly ever return fire and they're accuracy is pitiful. Only the HMG return fire with any consistency. Now Slaugherhouse is earlier in the war so some might say that's a factor. To that I say I played (I think) Jess's Kursk scenario in 7.1, and it was the exact same thing. I got slaughtered. And the T-34's were worthless. Personally I don't like playing as the Russians anyway, but I hope that 8.2 make's things a little more realistic. I mean, if the Russians were really that pitiful, then how the heck did they turn the tide??

Aside from all that, personally what I would like to know is, are crews going to be able to pop smoke again?? And is it finally going to be possible to load barges to their capacity??

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We serve others best when at the same time we serve ourselves.

(in reply to Les_the_Sarge_9_1)
Post #: 21
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/19/2004 10:31:36 PM   
Losqualo


Posts: 511
Joined: 5/23/2003
From: Stuttgart, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major_Johnson

...I mean, if the Russians were really that pitiful, then how the heck did they turn the tide??...


Industrial capacity and neverending human ressources. Alas things you won't find in SP:WAW .

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(in reply to Major_Johnson)
Post #: 22
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 1:16:05 AM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline
Les,

I will agree with you to some degree about the community being responsible in some way for the new OoB's. There has always been voices in the community that put forth the idea that this or that could stand to be tweaked, modified or corrected. However, as we all know there will always be those voices...because no one version of the OoB's are ever going to satisfy everyone who plays SPWaW.

I have never rallied against the OoB team for the modifications they are attempting on 8.2...I will reserve my judgement until after I get a chance to see the new format in action. I sincerely hope they fixed all of the gaffs that were uncovered in 8.0 and 8.1...and did not create any new ones. I have, however, never agreed to the need for so much secrecy as it has only lead to speculation and doubt. That decision was the projects own worse enemy in my opinion.

Anyway, at this point my real beef is the handling of the files since they were declared done what? two weeks ago...if not more? Does MG have to tell us what they are doing? No, they don't...but it would be nice and it might have cut down on the feeling of frustration that a good part of the community has felt as of late. A little "heads up" goes a long way...at least it would have, now it would be largely damage control, but any news would still be welcomed.

I know there are some people out there who are going to read this and say "who cares...it will be posted when it's ready" and "they don't need to tell you anything." and that's fine, it's their right to feel that if so inclined. However, that doesn't mean that the portion of the community who would like some update should remain silent.

I guess what I want to point out is that those of us posting questions are not "biting the hand" out of spite...we are not trying to bust MG's b@lls for our own entertainment...we are not trying to be the voices of rebellion to a disenchanted portion of the community. We merely want to state that we would appreciate updates and information about a project that has been highly publicized and touted for some time now...and that seems to have fallen into the Limbo of the Lost.

_____________________________


(in reply to Losqualo)
Post #: 23
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 1:41:27 AM   
BulletMagnet


Posts: 132
Joined: 8/29/2003
From: Ocala,Florida
Status: offline
Well said! I miss the good old days.

_____________________________

"What we do in life,echoes in eternity"

(in reply to Orzel Bialy)
Post #: 24
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 3:10:16 AM   
M4Jess


Posts: 5140
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rbrunsman

It was nice to feel like I had my own personal scenario designer for a whole year taking me through the D-day action. Of course, I was on the winning side of that series of battles.

I've got three versions on my computer; v7.1, H2H.fr and v8.01. I haven't really noticed a huge difference between v7 and v8 other than the screwup of the cost of the units. I can't wait to see what was done to make us all in awe over the new "improvements."



Yo Bob! I "let you win" heehee

_____________________________



Im making war, not trouble~


(in reply to rbrunsman)
Post #: 25
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 3:13:27 AM   
Frank W.

 

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major_Johnson

Someone mentioned something about the Russians being tougher in 8.01. Not as far as I'm concerned. I'm currently playing the Russian side in Slaughterhouse via PBEM, and they suck ass! They hardly ever return fire and they're accuracy is pitiful. Only the HMG return fire with any consistency. Now Slaugherhouse is earlier in the war so some might say that's a factor. To that I say I played (I think) Jess's Kursk scenario in 7.1, and it was the exact same thing. I got slaughtered. And the T-34's were worthless. Personally I don't like playing as the Russians anyway, but I hope that 8.2 make's things a little more realistic. I mean, if the Russians were really that pitiful, then how the heck did they turn the tide??

Aside from all that, personally what I would like to know is, are crews going to be able to pop smoke again?? And is it finally going to be possible to load barges to their capacity??


major: i just got my a.. kicked by a russian in 45 8000 him vs. 4000 my germans in a defense.

all tanks from me escept 1(!) panther were killed.

okay, i´m perhaps average player, my opp was a vet and the
russians have quite good exp in 45, while germans quite
suck. i made the mistake of bad deployment + force selection.
in this later stae you can only buy SS units if you wanna
succed as germans on that point ratio IMHO.

i´m shure the expert players would say something other, but
that´s my experience. the game was a draw in the end. what a
joke my opp captured all vic hexes and wiped me out, so to speak.
i granted him a med. victory and overide the game judgement.
at least i killed huge numbers of the reds.

(in reply to Major_Johnson)
Post #: 26
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 6:05:45 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
What do you guys think about bicycle units?

Do they work?
Would you rather the bicycles were eliminated and those jaeger type units replaced with regular infantry?

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Frank W.)
Post #: 27
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 6:11:38 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
As one of the OOB editors, I understand the feeling that players have about this seemingly secret edit that is going on.

It isn't secret out of intent rather (in my instance) from exhaustion. After a few hours of editing the OOB to fix the hundreds of minor errors that are there, were there, and were built in from the word go. Going round and round, sometimes arriving back at the beginning and wondering what I am wasting my time for.

At that point, the last thing on my mind is to report to the world my misadventures and walks up the garden path.

Here for those who want the details are one such adventure.

Please, if you find any errors, report them to me.

Belgium Edit

Import 6 pounder gun Mk4/5 from UK
Use weapon 82 in unit 022

Added sound names to weapons
089 Panzerfaust 627
090 PIAT 633
091 M1 Bazooka 636
092 Panzerschreck 624
216 Mas 38 SMG 621

136 Change LBM to 7024
132 Change LBM from 62 to 7040
227 Latil TAR H2 change LBM from 7673 to 7921

Major Overhaul 4 Mar 2004

UNITS

004 ACG-1
Change start date from May 1940 to April 1940
Change HE ammo to 15 (10)
total Ammo load is now 55- correct?

005 T13 B.1
FC 1 (0)
Radio 11 (90)
End Date 1940 (1941)
Armour and cost adjusted.

006 Stuart I
FC 3 (2)
RgF 4 (3)
Radio 70 (91)
FT 38 (42)
Smoke Dis: No (Yes)
end date retained at 1943. British army stopped using them earlier than that. Were any in use in the Belgian Army outside of the ETO in 1944?

008 Sherman I
Carry 12 (8)
Skirts 50 (70) The Sherman II had the cast hull.

009 Sherman V
Carry 12 (8)

010 T.13 B.3
RgF 2 (1)
Speed 26 (18)
Radio 20 (10)
FH 20/25 (10/0)
FT 22 (10)
ST 10/0 (10/22)
RT 10/0 (10/15)
Add weapon 2 196
Cost 30 (24)
Class Tank Destroyer (turret Tank Destroyer)

011 Panhard 178
Radio code 13 (10) excludes this unit from formations

012 Humber MkII
Carry 2 (4)
Radio 71 (91)
Start Date Nov 41 (July 40)
Add weapon 2 179
Fix armour same as UK model

013 Daimler AC
Change name to Daimler MkI AC
Start date July 42 (May 42)
AP 48

014 Carry 105 (check what guns this unit is supposed to haul.)

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 28
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 6:13:46 AM   
Major Destruction


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/10/2000
From: Canada
Status: offline
OOOPs, sorry there was more.........

Rarity 1 (0)

015
Radio 10 (11)
End date 1940 (1949)

016 Bedford QL (Check the weapon)
017 AGR2
Change end date 1940 (1949)

018 47mmL32 SA FRC
Change name to Canon 47mm AC

019
Change radio code 90 (13)
Remove10 rounds AP ammo
Change cost 36 (50) - same as for Germany 75mm how

020 2pdr AT-Gun
Change name to Canon 2Pdr AC

021 6Pdr AT-Gun
Change name to Canon 6Pdr AC
Rarity 0 (1)

022 6Pdr AT-Gun L
Change name to Canon 6Pdr L AC

024 40mm bofors
Radio 60 (80)

025 BE 60mm Mortar
Crew 4 (8)
Cost 24 (56)

026 BE 81mm Mortar
Cost 32 (26)
End Date 1948 (1949)

027 BE 4.2in Mortar
LBM 9941 (57)
Cost 36 (38)

028 Browning FN MG
FC 2 (1)
Radio 10 (2)

030 BE Rifle Sqd
Cost 18 (20)

031 BE Rifle Sqd
FC 2 (1)
Cost 22 (20)
LBM 7791 (7808)

032 BE Rifle Sqd
FC 2 (1)
Cost 22 (20)
*Check the Class*
Remove HE ammo from Piat
End Date 1946 (1949)
cost 27 (29)

032
Class Infantry (Heavy Infantry)

033 BE Rifle Sqd
FC 2 (1)
Cost 28 (25)
End Date 1945 (1949)

034 Engineers
**Check Class**
Cost 32 (42)
Swap weapons 2 and 3
End Date 1945 (1949)

035 BE Cavalry
Change end date to 1932 (1940)

036 BE ATR
Change rarity to 13 to exclude this unit from purchase
**Remove unit if possible**

037 Boys ATR
Chnge start date to March 1940 (July 1940)
Change radio to 12 (0)

038 PIAT
Change end date to 1945 (1949)
Remove HE ammo

041 Ammo Dump
Change end date 1940 (1949)
**see unit 201**
Change weight 255 (250)

042 Fort
Change unit details

043/
**Change later**

044 Fairey fox
Change start Date Jan 1935 (1937)
Add 8 10kg bombs
Add SH 1
Cost 26 (14)

045 Gladiator
Change rarity 2 (0)
Weapons

046 Hurricane MkI
Start Date June 1939 (May 1940)
Rarity 2 (0)
SH 1 (0)

047 BE Eng Sqd
End Date 1945 (1949)
Weapon 2 097 (087)
Weapon 3 087 (229) aaaaargh! misc small arms is for crewmen ONLY!!
Cost 31 (27)
Class motorised engineers (engineers)


048 C.R.42 AS Falco
Change name to CR.42 AS Falco
Start Date Feb 1940 (Jan 1939)
Rarity 2 (0)

049 Battle
Rarity 2 (0)
Start Date March 1938 (Jan 1939)

050 FO Bren Carrier
Weight 224 (124)
End Date 1946 (1949)

051 Add unit Company HQ
052 Add Unit BE Engineer Sec

053/054 Command Post
Rarity 1 (2)

055
Rarity 1 (2)
End Date 1945 (1949)

056/058
End Date 1945 (1949)

060 BE 50mm Mortar
Rarity 0 (1)
Use LBM for Romanian lt mortar?
Cost 17 (16)

061 BE Pioneers
Cost 31 (42)
Exchange weapons 4 and 3

062 76mm L9 FRC IG
Change name to BE 76mm Mortar
Change class to mortar (62- Infantry Gun)
Crew 4 (6)
FC 0 (1)
Rarity 0 (1)
Weight 104 (106)
Cost 22 (15)

063
Size 2 (3)

064
Speed 18 (32)
Radio 21 (10)
Icon 1007 (995)
Ammo 30 (20)

065
Radio 20 (11)
Cost 30 (33)

067 M3A5 Grant
Copy data from UK to get the correct text entry
Start Date November 1942 (May 1942) M3A5 not built until Novemeber.

068 Jeep
Crew 2 (1)
Carry 104 (105)
Weight 223 (113)
Ed Date 1945
Weapon 1 139 (143)

069
LBM 7766 (403)
Carry 10 (110)

070
End Date 1945 (1949)
LBM 315 (396)

073
End Date 1946 (1949)
Cost 91 (132)
Ammo loadout same as for UK

074 17Pdr AT-Gun
Change name to Canon 17 Pdr AC

075
Cost 61 (63)

076 M20 Scout
change name to M20 Scout Car

077
End Date 1945 (1949)

079
Rarity 1 (2)

084
LBM 7712 (664)
Weapon 2 0 (148)
Weapon 4 133 (0)
End Date 1945 (1949)
**Edit ammo load**

085 Add 75mm Battery
086 Add 150mm Baty

088
LBM 7608 (8204)
Text 0 (8204)

089
LBM 7614 (67)
090 Create unit

095 create unit
**Add LBM**

096 Create Unit

098
**Fix Later**

099 Obs Post
Start Date 1934 (1930)
Cost 32 (36)

100 Replace unit with new Fort

101
Strongpoint
Replace entirely with a MG fort

102 New unit

103
Weapon 4 HE ammo 0 (40) AP ammo 40 (0)
FC2 (1)
cost 24 (20)

104
Name Motor Cav Sec (Motor Inf Sqd)
Start 1937 (1930)


105
FC 2 (1)
End Date 1945 (1949)
Cost 21 (20)

106
FC 2 (1)
End Date 1945 (1949)
Cost 26 (28)

108 Carry 220 (224)
Weapon 1 237 (114)

109
Start date June 1944 (June 1945)

110
End date 1946 (1949)
cost 51 (73)

111-129 New units

140-208 New Units
**Check data**

202-221, 224, 231-235, 242, 243 New Units

244 Change end date to 1940
245 Change availability to Jan 41-45 (Jan 43-49)
-----------------------------------------------------------

Weapons

12
13
16
17
20
21
24 new
29
30
33
37
38
40
42
43 (new)
44
45
49 (new?) Change name.
54 Change name from 77mm L37 mle GP to 77mm L37 GP
56 (new)
57 OK
63
71
72
75 OK
76 OK
81 new
82
83
84
87
88 import from USA
90
96 New
97
98 new
101
102 OK
103 OK
105 imported from UK
107
111 create new weapon
114
116 New
117 new
118
120
130
131
133 copied from UK
134
139
140
142 not available for purchase but used
143
148
150 new
160
163
164
176 copied from UK OOB
177
179
184
185
196
197
205 new
207
217 new

227 Create M2 SMG
Range 12
Acc 4
Warhead 1
HEKill 4
Sound 558

228 import M3 SMG from USA
rename to M3A1
increase HEKill to 4 (3)

229
230 (new) July 42-49
232 new weapon
233
235 imported from USA
237 PM Sten (used for truck weapon)
239
240
242
243

Formations

1002 Armoured Cav Sec

1003
Units 001 (002)

1004
End Date 1945 (1949)
1004/1005 Change units to 006 (007)

1009
Remove all Trucks
Units 1/2 103 (106)

1010
Name motor Cav Plt (Motor Inf Plt)
Start Date 1937 (1930)
Remove LMG and mortar and replace trucks

1011
Name Inf Plt Reserve (Rifle Plt-)
Special 20 (0)
Unit 5 060 (0)

1012
Engineer Plt
Remove

1013
Name Engineer Plt (Sec)
End date 1940 (1949)
Special 10 (0)
Units 52 (34)
Move to 1012

New 1013
Engineer company


1014/1044 Chasseurs Plt/Sqdrn
Change end date to 1932
(1940)

1030 Remove unit 5
1046 rebuild formation according to TOE
1047 Remove Unit 2
1048 Remove unit 3
1049 End date 1946 (1949)
1050/1051 End Date 1945 (1942)
1053 Rebuild
End date 1946 (1949) see 1144.
1056 change platoons to 1036 (1035)
1058 Remove - unnecessary

1061 Inf Gun Sec removed
Replaced by Howitzer Battalion
1063 Inf Gun Plt removed
Replace with new formation

1064 remove (duplicatedin 1065)
replace with new formation
1066 remove
1068 End Date 1945 (1949)
1069 Start Date 1931 (1930)
1070 New formation
1072 New formation
1075 remove unit 4
1076-1078 New Formations
1081-1089 New Fromations
1090 End Date 1945 (1949)
1092 Replace formation with Halftrack Section
1098 End date 1945 (1949)
1099 Add Formation
1101-1109 New Formations
1117-1130 New formations

1132 end date 1941 (1949)
1133 New Formation
1134 End Date 1941 (1949)



1177-1180 New formation
1178 is only for convenience. Use restricted to motor infantry companies in the lower slots therefore asigned recon status to avoid using excessive orders, assigned elite status to increase the cost accordingly and placed in the unknown purchase screen to restrict this formation to inf companies.

j edit (icon fixes)

169/170 Icon 1002 (530)
added unit 149 (imported from Version 3) - needs formation

_____________________________

They struggled with a ferocity that was to be expected of brave men fighting with forlorn hope against an enemy who had the advantage of position......knowing that courage was the one thing that would save them.

Julius Caesar, 57 BC

(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 29
RE: Countless Hours and days and years and now 8.2 - 5/20/2004 6:38:24 AM   
Orzel Bialy


Posts: 2664
Joined: 4/4/2002
From: Wisconsin USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Major Destruction

What do you guys think about bicycle units?

Do they work?
Would you rather the bicycles were eliminated and those jaeger type units replaced with regular infantry?


MD...I'm not trying to start anything...but why ask this question if the files were indeed finalized and handed over to MG for posting?

_____________________________


(in reply to Major Destruction)
Post #: 30
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