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- 12/9/2001 6:32:00 PM

Mikimoto

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline

I ever thinked Versailles treaties were perverse and a shame, but GB and France were revengeful. National humiliation exacerbates nationalism.
And I ever thinked Carpet Bombing was a war crime too. Do you remember Dresden carpet bombing?
And Hiroshima and Nagasaki nuking?

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Desperta ferro!
Miquel Guasch Aparicio

(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 31

- 12/9/2001 6:37:00 PM

Bj�rnR

Posts: 55
Joined: 8/24/2000
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Tomo
I don’t mean that the reports of wartime crimes are false. It’s obvious that the worst crimes were committed by non-democratic nations. (One on the victors side). I just wanted to remind us that the victors do write the history and the dangers of that. Even the victor is a human.
Equally I agree with you that there is a danger in the losers trying to re-write it.
This is the reason why it takes generations to get an objective picture of what really happened.

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(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 32

- 12/10/2001 2:54:00 AM

NeoWhiteWolf

Posts: 33
Joined: 5/15/2001
From: USA
Status: offline

Tombstone...sorry for my late response on your last response on the Americans holding japanesse.....We may have not raped and killed...but we made them work for 14 hours a day and gave them literraly bread and water...wiuth no compensation for when the war was over...and after the war anti-asian acts happened until after korea....all governments hurt others in the name of justice... On those who supported my last response ...if any of you are in colleg take Sociology and Anthropology as a minor or an elective...it gives you an idea on how brutal we really are
And on one final note...The Jewish ppl have been persecuted since Egypt....Russia since its creation has killed around (a really rough figure i read in a book) 1 out every 3 ever born in the world....tell me that isnt sad thge germans just did what russia had done for a near millenia... I dont codone what germany did and in fact a lot of my friends are jewish and i see them as someone who beleives in something different than someone else...also good reading material... I think the book is Seeds or Tryanny..or something like that it talks on Leaders of the last century who have commited genocide in theie own countries...Ill post the real title as soon as i can find it.... But in the end war is war...there is no right there is no war...theres only losing and destruction...one side wins and one side suffers desctruction...as they say theres only the Dead and Dying...THose who are already dead and those who are going to die...Damn this is depressing sh**.... Sorry tombstone but i laugh at how this started on how to play a WW2 capaign with Germany...then some says a deragatory sentence i defned it then it goes in my favor then you yell at me then i yell back and ppl support a little of both we said......So i guess its a tie... [ December 09, 2001: Message edited by: Richard WhiteWolf ]

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(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 33

- 12/10/2001 6:45:00 AM

Tombstone

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline

This is not a competition. I probably need to lighten up, but the truth about the past cannot be allowed to fade away. We have to carry our errors with us always, to make certain we don't let the conditions arise that allow terrible things to happen. Russia has done a great deal of wrong over the years, that changes nothing when it comes to what Germany did. I don't want to tie, or win, or lose here. I want people to know the horrible things that groups have done in the past, and realize that they were unacceptable. I'm against the apologist point of view. It's true that this blew WAY out of proportion, but I have say that it was far more disquieting to hear some people's opinions on this topic than any initial point of contention over phrasing. Tomo

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(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 34

- 12/11/2001 12:21:00 AM

A.H

Posts: 34
Joined: 6/3/2001
From: Finland
Status: offline

People who just cry about SS killing jews and forgetting and minimizing the soviet actions are inferior humanbeings. (that's not a racial concept. Stupid people are inferior.) The SS never officially tortured the prisoners in a so brutal and raw way like the soviet NKVD. SS troops just blowed the heads off the enemy. Of course in a such large amount of people there must have been some psychos too. People who denie the allied warcrimes are just typical victims of the western propaganda. If Hitler wanted to get ridoff those kinda assholes I have nothing against it. Stalin had millions of jews killed too. The NKVD had a big part in that. Cry about that for a change you liberal assholes. It's more hard to believe that people like the Germans commited such things, but it's not so big surprise to hear tprimitiv Russians doing those things. So German is a better example or a warning or whatever. Soviets did ATLEAST as much warcrimes as the Germans. Soviets did it in more raw and sick way. The Germans were gentlemanns even in killing and gassing. As sick as that may sound. Zyklon-B didn't effect painfully, you just went to sleep, no pain. Except of ants eating you piece by piece. Raping of million wimen In Germany was OK too I guess dear liberal assholes? the Germans never had the permission to rape slavic wimen. Some did but not many I strongly believe. Primitiv Russians were(propably still are)like animals. The victims of western propaganda and liberal inferior human beings who don't have their feet on the real life and assholes who don't know much about the .war.crimes.aubject, DON'T bother to answer. I'm ashaimed that you people who live in the merry happyland are called humans. Just whining and complaining and denieing everything that doesn't fit your picture of the "USA, THE SUPER LAND" and "I don't know nothing about Hitler, but he sucks anyway because that's what I am supposed to think. Me very much nevahhh have to do any research about the subject I just have to ask my jewish teacher and my slavic friends how this thing works" the western people have learned to fly without knowing how to land after the ww2. Just because you won with mass, doesn't mean you are anything great. You suck. I just realized how much I hate the so called western society a.k.a USA, britain and cocksuckers promised land France. People who I talk to here almost always are researcing every perspective on the subject and always are trying to understand why something bad happened. People aren't happy little party guys from mufasa land. Accept that killing is a normal part of man. People have killed each other always. So called civilizaized nations are just hippocryte **** lands who are about to fall in couple hundred years. Democracy and "liberacy" are just passing moments in human evolution and in 600 years people will look at us and laugh. Laugh hard. i hope none of you assholes who didn't get what I'm trying to say and provoc don't have to answer because I don't give a **** about your opinions or you. I hate you and I don't want to get more angry watchin' your stupid hippocryte 'feet in the air' comments. People who understand, feel free to contact me and share your opinions. Every stupid comment I take as a challenge and as a declaration of fight. As stupid as that may seem. But when I think about it I have no reason to be ashamed to YOU. Just bann me if it make's you feel better but I have only brought up my opinion which I'm never ashaimed to tell. May the force of the righ-minded help me.

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A.H

(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 35

- 12/11/2001 12:51:00 AM

Jackk

Posts: 174
Joined: 6/2/2000
From: Charlotte, NC
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Mogami:
Greetings to all my Matrix friends. I try to stay out of these threads that begin with one subject and then a fire fight over a word or phrase erupts. Any one who has read "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" will recall what effect 'harmless' words or saying aloud a careless phrase had there.

And the answer is........42!!

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Jackk "Smile today cuz tomorrow may really suck"

(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 36

- 12/11/2001 7:21:00 AM

Tombstone

Posts: 764
Joined: 6/1/2000
From: Los Angeles, California
Status: offline

OMG A.H., you're crazy. I'm reduced to laughter, I'm sorry I stirred this up. Look at this guy?! Great post buddy, hope you're proud of yourself. You're assumptions about this thread are hilariously off-base. It's always interesting when one of you guys pop out with your real beliefs though. Anyways, if anyone else feels like discussing this topic please email me privately. It's an interesting and important topic... just a tough one to be objective about and one that heavily involves morality and philosophy. Tomo

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(in reply to SoleSurvivor)

Post #: 37