Posts: 178
Joined: 10/15/2001 From: richmond, va Status: offline
well, i am creating a scenario for someone. here's the lesson - the first time you save the scenario in the editor, make damn SURE that you have the scenario set to the battle type that you actually want the battle to be (defend, delay, M.E., advance, or assault). Because what you pick the first time is the AI's default stance for the battle no matter how many times you adjust and save after that.
My example:
I was given a map w/ VH/VP already set up and was tasked to select an enemy force and do defense setup. The player would be in an advancing mode. Well, when he saved the game he saved it as a meeting engagement and then sent it to me. I went ahead and set up the enemy forces. I tested it in AI vs. AI mode and my AI forces (that is, non-player forces) which were supposed to be in delay mode were moving all over the map. So I set all units to Defend stance and also set the battletype to Defend mode. No, they still are scurrying all around, even though each VH is in their initial control. There is no reason for them to be moving on the first turn, even in the rear areas.
So I thought I'd do another battle and make the first save as a Delay battle. You know what - the stupid little dudes stay right where I want them.
Lesson learned. Now to do this battle ALL OVER AGAIN!!!! >:-(
Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000 From: Finland Status: offline
In Meeting Engagement -stance:
Set reaction to 99.
Hit 'F2' -key to all AIs formations.
Switch AI -formations to computer control.
Give object to 'zero'-unit of a formation to hex where it is defending.
HC-editing; take radios away from formation leaders.
But as you said, to be sure that guys stay input you'll should set mission to defend for AI.
mosh
The only way to have assurance that you can keep units in place is by setting up scenario as assault defend.
Then, of course, you'll have to script in the moves and reaction turns for the AI side, or for perhaps boths sides if it can be played on either.
The important thing to remember is to set reaction turns and the formations to computer control. That is essential. Lessons learned, like you, in the crucible of trial and error, General.
WB
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In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Independent Game Consultant
Posts: 178
Joined: 10/15/2001 From: richmond, va Status: offline
Wait, what are you saying, WB - that I should set all formations to computer control for the AI force (that is, in the Headquarters Screen)? That can't be what you are saying..
Itis very easy to change the stance.
I often change the type of mission from x to Assault/Defend, change the stance and set reation times.
It is not as good as getting it right the first time but seems to work pretty well.
The nature of the scenario makes a difference. Some are more conducive to these sorts of changes than others.
If you set reaction turns and use waypoints, by all means you should. If not under computer control, they will begin wandering...OR in an assault defend scenario if they are defending, they may not move at all.
WB
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In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Independent Game Consultant
Posts: 178
Joined: 10/15/2001 From: richmond, va Status: offline
Ok, thanks. I went back and checked through some of your scenarios and was confused, but now I know what you are saying. Essentially, if the AI is in Defend mode, I need to set a reaction time and waypoints for a platoon if I want it to move; otherwise it'll just sit there until engaging the enemy, correct?
Newbie question here, I've had the editor and SPWAW for quite some time now, but I don't know hwo to change the AI setting, I know how to do most everything but that, but when I play scenarios it says both side's mission is to advance. . .
Posts: 178
Joined: 10/15/2001 From: richmond, va Status: offline
That means it is set at meeting engagement, which is the default setting when you start editing a battle. Look between the two flags in the main editor screen. there you'll see areas weighted toward one side or another. a meeting engagement is when both are equal, defense a bit towards one side, and defend all the way towards one side or another (advance and assault being reciprocal).
Posts: 178
Joined: 10/15/2001 From: richmond, va Status: offline
oh - one question (it might be covered in the scenario designers guide, but since we're on this subject): does the AI always respond best in Defend/Delay mode? Or can you also use the Advance/Assault mode and get good results? I seem to remember in SP1 that it was best to use AI Defend or Delay even if the AI *was* supposed to be advancing or assaulting, and just set waypoints and reactions times for the units.
It seems pretty even handed to me General. I think it works well from either direction. Now of course, if you leave the advance side as is, the units will attack, just not perhaps the way you want them to do.
And occasionally they will deviate from the prescribed routing. I'm not sure what triggers this, but Michael Wood could fill that in for us if he ever has the time.
You know, in all the versions of SP, the AI control works better in this game than any other. It is reliable and a lot of scripting can be done to make the scenario behave as you want it to.
Zero, when you start the scenario editor, the very first thing you do is set the scenario in the center at the top of the screen. That is where you can make assault-defend, advance-delay or meeting engagement scenario setting to your liking.
WB
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In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Independent Game Consultant
Thanks Wild Bill. I have a couple other map editor questions, I couldn't find a FAQ or anything for it, so here goes;
How do I get the side-walk looking things for cities? I can find a picture of all of them under saved maps, but don't know how to include them in a map.
How do I select a specific building without clicking 5k times from wood, stone or multi-hex buildings?
How do I make larger artillery appear on the field? Say Italian 203mm howitzers.
How do I make ships appear on the map?
What is the meaning of life?
Thanks a mil!
Originally posted by ZeroAntipop: How do I get the side-walk looking things for cities? I can find a picture of all of them under saved maps, but don't know how to include them in a map.
City streets are to be found in the "single hex user" shape file. In SPWAW map editor hit "a" key (screen below shows then "user custom terrain"). Then you can access the single "city street" graphics with "SHIFT+1" command. Enter 99 for an overview of available shapes, then left click map.
How do I select a specific building without clicking 5k times from wood, stone or multi-hex buildings?
You need to know the icon number of the desired building. Unfortunately there is no overview of the available buildings in the manual or elsewhere. Nevertheless, you can cycle through the available buildings with the "SHIFT+1" command in SPWAW map Editor again. Another way would be (as I do often..) to place any building on the map and then change its graphic to the one you want with "Tile transfer" command in Freds Map Editor. For "How to" check his HTML manual or my document in the signature below.
How do I make larger artillery appear on the field? Say Italian 203mm howitzers.
In SPWAW "deploy screen" use the "change current unit to different type" command ("R" key") and then choose the unit you like. Many of the "scenario design only" unit types like onboard heavy artillery, can only be accessed if year is set to 1949 and month to december! Check especially the "czech" and "norway" OOB for special units you can´t access elsewhere!
How do I make ships appear on the map?
Same procedure as last. Set year to 1949, month to december and browse the OOBs in question. (Japan, Norway ect.)
Hope it helps
__________ Harry
Merci beaucoup (thank you very much, no I'm not French). I can load maps that show all of the buildings and the street hexes with a number by it, I just don't know how to repeatedly select that number =(. I'm still confused.
I think Harry has done a superb job of answering these questions, Zero, so anything I say would be superfluous (a common failure on my part ).
I would, however, only add that using these new tools requires a bit of practice. By that I mean try doing these things on a practice map first.
Get a feel for how they work. Learning in scenario design comes by doing as much or more as reading.
If you look at those first maps in the game, you'll find some simple instructions on how to gain access and control to buildings and other map features.
In the SPWAW manual there is a very detailed explanation of the map features and how to use them.
Look in the SPWAW manual, beginning on page 133. and the section that interests you beginning on page 139 and onward.
Read that over and experiment with the steps and I think you will catch on quickly to how it is done.
WB
_____________________________
In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Independent Game Consultant
Thank you, the manual is kind of weird to read though since it's not a real manual. . .In fact it won't even display now period.
[ December 10, 2001: Message edited by: ZeroAntipop ]
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Scenario Design - a hard lesson 
Scenario Design - a hard lesson - 
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).
I would, however, only add that using these new tools requires a bit of practice. By that I mean try doing these things on a practice map first.
Get a feel for how they work. Learning in scenario design comes by doing as much or more as reading.
If you look at those first maps in the game, you'll find some simple instructions on how to gain access and control to buildings and other map features.
In the SPWAW manual there is a very detailed explanation of the map features and how to use them.
Look in the SPWAW manual, beginning on page 133. and the section that interests you beginning on page 139 and onward.
Read that over and experiment with the steps and I think you will catch on quickly to how it is done.
WB
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