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SPWAW which version is best 101

 
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SPWAW which version is best 101 - 5/31/2004 11:08:11 PM   
hellcat

 

Posts: 805
Joined: 3/25/2002
From: uk
Status: offline 		This is a 101 on Why we have so many versions of the game going around and a good 101 for anyone getting into the game. I've noticed here and at the depot there's quite a bit of confusion about and any new faces must wonder what on earth it is we're all going on about sometimes. so here it is and why we're all confused and hung up on versions...

SPWAW grew out of Steel Panthers a game by SSI / Mindscape back in must have been 1994-1995. It went through a few versions there up to Steel Panthers III and after leaving that stable passed on to Matrix (is that right?) where it's been continuing it's life as SPWAW.

That went up to version 7.1 I think, which we were all merrily playing away (at least I think that's what the version was we were all merry men playing).

Then a funny thing happened, PanzerLeo came along and made 7.1 H2H which is generally reckoned to be kickass good and an all round improvement on 7.1 and every preceding version of the game.

MG in it's wisdom went onto make 8.0 (I was off radar back then) but it was generally considered a step down from 7.1 due to some heinous errors in it and (please anyone correct me if I'm wrong on this as I wasn't about at the time) then 8.1 came along that fixed some of the issues with 8.0 but not all, hence the need for 8.2 which as we all know (isn't here just yet).

Tension runs high with this version as many people have kinda held off because it's 'make your mind up time' as to will 8.2 be any good? A big proportion of the community will probably then decide whether to stick with H2H or 8.2.

H2H is like a breakaway game almost, although it's the same game it's far more realistic in many ways.

There's also the issue, that 8.2 may or may not herald an 8.2 version of H2H...

With all these versions some people have downloaded and have installed on their machines maybe 3 or 4 versions of the game. 7.1, 7.1 H2H, 8.1 and soon (?) 8.2
and possibly (??) 8.2 H2H

It's all a bit much for one game and I guess everyone has built 8.2 into a big crossroads.

Personally it's a darn shame MG didn't pick up and make H2H part of the official version of the game as that would have solved most problems.

It all feels a bit like the old betamax vs VHS video thing way back... betamax was technically better but VHS won out as brand leader...

If I made any errors here please feel free to correct but that's about the gist of it. I hope this clears up a few things for some of the newer faces around here. I've recently returned to this place after a break and it seemed very confusing to me!

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 5/31/2004 11:24:05 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat

It all feels a bit like the old betamax vs VHS video thing way back... betamax was technically better but VHS won out as brand leader...


That's true and we're all sitting around waiting for the DVD anyway - i.e. heeellooo Combat Leader.

I will not speculate in what 8.2 will mean for the games, or if the arrival of the upgrade will necessitate a split between AI and H2H players.

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 12:07:09 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		A great lead in there Hellcat.

To further flesh out though would require this addendum.

Steel Panthers was once called just that Steel Panthers
Much like Advanced Squad Leader was once just a game called Squad Leader.

But people were not happy, and more was needed.

Official versions exist called Steel panthers, Steel Panthers 2 Modern Battles and Steel Panthers 3 Brigade Combat. Those last two are actually still on sale at CD Access.com for those wishing the original retail item for whatever reason.

Steel Panthers grew and continued to grow.
But there was a split at one point, and the SP Cammo group eventually ended up taking the game in the direction that it is now. They provide us with SPWW2 which is their vision of the ideal Steel Panther 1, as well as SPMBT which is likely the better version of Steel Panthers 2 Modern Battles.

SP Cammo's games are closer in look and feel to the original versions, but are also quite DOS designed, although a clever user can run them in XP in some cases. But they give no hassle in 98 SE by comparison.

No real Steel Panthers fan will be finished till they at least check out SP Cammos efforts, that are also fully free downloads.

The SPWaW program apart from wandering through versions getting increasingly tweaked has also created their pride and joy the Mega Campaigns, which this user feels is the ultimate Steel Panthers any version experience.

About version 5, SPWaW looked like it might actually be finished. And we were all pumped for the release of the logical successor to our style of wargaming, that being Combat Leader. But that program is still under construction (sadly).
And due to wargamers being wargamers, the program just keeps getting fiddled with.

Version 7.1 is considered worthy of comment, and it was about the time Panzer Leo's H2H mod appeared.
Some say H2H is THE way to play. It is a popular consensus among many.

Currently the game has evolved into the currently anticipated 8.2 release. It will likely be matched up with a combination MC ultra download eventually (I am not saying I have ANY official word on that, it's just a logical assumption people).

There are so many custom made scenarios out there, that requesting a list of all that has been made, is really way beyond the realm of the realistically possible.

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Post #: 3
RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 12:32:00 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		My 2 cents(or,another sit-down session in line with the above)
Why might you ask the different versions of the same game(Steel Panthers)?
Well,the nuts and bolts of the fact is there are at least 2,and possibly mors schools of thought on thi,SP has been for all of us WW2 wargamers the epitomy of ground combat simulation,(turn-based) around,with a much larger following than a couple of also popular "near-copycats" by Talonsoft,also good games in their own right,but EXTREMELY limited in scope and graphics compared to the SP genre..
SP allows one to be Zhukov,or Patton,or Homma,or Montgomery,etc,or almost any other nation's combat leader from WW2,and from any time during that conflict..
The 2 main camps of thought have beenfor the "gameability crowd",or the "historically correct" bunch,(like myself)..
The grandfather of all of this:Steel Panthers,has shown itself to be a venerable old warrior,lasting through all these various incarnations,(and may be likened to the robust Douglas DC3,of games),without much stretching here....
It is to the credit of all of the original designers and continued support by the current contributors that SP in ALL it's forms is still the greatest strategy/tactics game around..
It is so perfect,we all in this forum have as many opinions of what's "right and wrong" with the game,as we have versions permanently "etched" onto our harddrives..
For any newbies coming to the Forum,please do not read hatred or vitriole into the comments of the older grognards...We are ALL on common ground here,and all had to start somewhere,but we ALL started basically the same place,and occasionally get to bump into each other along the way..

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 12:40:12 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Yes however I disagree with the H2H being the next step, H2H is great I play it often it looks better and has very good new units and plays very well but it has one major flaw IMHO the pricing is a bit off: 7.1 has holes in it but I very much enjoy playing it just as much as H2H unfortunatly I think 8.0 and 8.2 the pricing will go the route of H2H pricing. I will ofcourse play them anyway this is just my .02 cents

If H2H could have some of 7.1s pricing I think you would have a very good game, but I will not judge 8.2 until I play 20 to 30 games, after about 30 games in 8.01 the play of some units are better or worse than the stats that are shown I can't figure out why this is, it just is.

< Message edited by VikingNo2 -- 5/31/2004 12:43:00 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 1:33:46 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		I have both H2H and the beta release of 8.2, and my customized OOB uses features from both. From Panzer Leo, I've chosen a few pics and incorporated these into 8.2. I also use Leo's German nomenclature for the 8.2 OOB 70, but this is not everyone's cup of tea, or rather, stein of Beck's. For pricing, weapons values and formations, I will stick with 8.2, for obvious reasons. (For the few of you that didn't already know, I was on the OOB Editing Team.)

8.2 will probably be the choice for games against the AI. While the AI is not any smarter, it will make better force selections in generated and long campaigns than previously. H2H will probably be the favorite for PBEM players, as that is what it was designed for. I see no problem with having both versions.

You guys will have to judge for yourself, once 8.2 goes public. Leo may follow up with an updated H2H, but I don't know what his intentions are. Here's a bit of inside dope, though: Leo was asked about being an 8.2 contributor some months ago, but he never replied. We can only speculate on what might have been. Honestly, though, I think it's a good thing the gamers have these two separate OOBs, and what are essentially different games, as Leo modified the mech.exe for H2H. Vive la difference.

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 2:38:30 AM   
Gallo Rojo


Posts: 731
Joined: 10/26/2000
From: Argentina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

[W]e're all sitting around waiting for the DVD anyway - i.e. heeellooo Combat Leader.



LOL

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 3:09:14 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I still will NEVER understand why people are being forced to take an AI version of H2H as the 'official' version. Maybe it should have been released as a mod like H2H was, and called Steel Panther AI or something. 7.1 was good to both types of players, especially those who play both ways. Now we are getting AI shoved down our throats, because 'players never turn on Rarity'. It had an ON/OFF switch for a reason. Now the pricing will force it on everyone.

I was not a big fan of the pricing in H2H (two companies of Shermans or T34's for the price of one PzIV company), and that is why I played 7.1 exclusively. Now I will most likely turn to H2H, at least partially. Someone should have looked at how wildly popular H2H was before deciding to key the game to AI play.


Goblin

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 4:54:09 AM   
hellcat

 

Posts: 805
Joined: 3/25/2002
From: uk
Status: offline 		I do hope it doesn't necessitate a split as I play AI and PBEM so I'd be split down the middle

Gob does that mean the rarity on off function has been taken away for 8.2?

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Post #: 9
RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 5:19:48 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hellcat

I do hope it doesn't necessitate a split as I play AI and PBEM so I'd be split down the middle

Gob does that mean the rarity on off function has been taken away for 8.2?


Hellcat, the rarity function is still there, and in no way did I imply that 8.2 was geared only for solo play. Part of the 8.2 "read me" is located within the "Imminent" thread (on page 3) , and I would suggest that you read it.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 5/31/2004 10:21:20 PM >

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 10:34:11 AM   
VikingNo2


Posts: 2918
Joined: 1/26/2002
From: NC
Status: offline 		Hellcat what Goblin is saying is the prices on units have been change and unless 8.2 is different certine items are priced so you will never use them like the recoiless rifle is move expensive the a 88mm Flak/AT. This was due to some decision some where that sarted linking price to how rare the item was over how combat effective it was. So what ends up happening is PBEMers will not be able to purchase those units due to the expense, which in effect is to quote Goblin " forceing rarity down our throat. As I said earlier I have not played 8.2 yet so I cannot comment on it. But I do have a copy of 7.1 on my harddrive and on a CD just to be safe.

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RE: SPWAW which version is best 101 - 6/1/2004 1:33:11 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VikingNo2

This was due to some decision some where that sarted linking price to how rare the item was over how combat effective it was.


Actually no. Their prices were raised to correct an AI purchase problem. Dunno if they have changed their prices back to lower values if the 8.2 AI purchases are now better.

Voriax

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