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Why Would They Leave out........

 
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Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 6:53:51 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Serious why would a plane type that was considered by the Navy as :

p.500 Francillon

"Their Standard transport Aircraft"

A plane type Numbering just over 500 built and purchased during and just before the war, with around 100 in service at the beging of the war, be left out of the Japanese OOB?

Their must be a reasion, frankely I am baffeled by this and somewhat frustrated, does anyone know why?


L2D3(Tabby)



< Message edited by Brady -- 6/3/2004 4:54:49 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:04:12 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		So you would do it your self.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 2
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:10:13 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Nice Mogami, if you like when we play I will be hapy to intertain using your Modified game if you want to play as Japanese.

................................................

But imo it is quiet disturbing that we would have to add such an important aircraft to the data base ourselvs.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 3
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:12:06 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		No Brady I modified it for you. I put 84 on map and 25 in the pool you'll have to pick a factory to build them. (I always turn off the Hickory since I don't like it)

I'm thinking that people will love the editor as much as they love the game.



I still have to get the airplane facing the other way.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 6/3/2004 12:15:21 AM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 4
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:15:46 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		WoW, Thank You, I almost feal bad about complaing abot this now.


..........................................................


Seriously though I dont get it, why leave it out?

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 5
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:17:11 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Because there are 1000 items and only 100 slots. I had to remove items to fit it in.

See anything strange about this ship?




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 6/3/2004 12:23:10 AM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 6
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:31:43 AM   
stubby331


Posts: 268
Joined: 10/24/2001
From: Perth, Western Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Because there are 1000 items and only 100 slots. I had to remove items to fit it in.

See anything strange about this ship?





Hi Mogami,
Is this AMC standard in the database or another example of your editing skills. (The Japs had a few of these fitted out didnt they?)

The only thing I see as slightly strange is the durability set @ 25....

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 7
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:32:06 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		It is the Missing Armed Merchant Cruser


.......................


Forgive me, but why dident they add more slots???

< Message edited by Brady -- 6/3/2004 5:33:57 AM >

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 8
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:40:35 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		Mogami

quote:

Because there are 1000 items and only 100 slots. I had to remove items to fit it in


Please explain?

Surface Raiders - Yes just want the INJ needs !

Now all we need are a fleet of Japanese Carrier Subs.

I hope your scenario ships with the game!

How easy/hard is it to add new artwork to the game for new ships/aircraft?

< Message edited by pad152 -- 6/3/2004 5:46:47 AM >

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 9
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:41:05 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		LOL

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 10
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:44:13 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		"Hi Mogami,
Is this AMC standard in the database or another example of your editing skills. (The Japs had a few of these fitted out didnt they?)

The only thing I see as slightly strange is the durability set @ 25...."


Hi, As far as I can tell the Japanese had a number of these (and everyone that I could ID I changed) AP that they armed and considered aux crusiers.

I didn't change the durabilty rating from the standard AP did they actually add protective armor to these ships?

< Message edited by Mogami -- 6/3/2004 12:44:25 AM >

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to stubby331)
Post #: 11
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:48:09 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Seriously Why not have more slots(Empty ones) available?

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 12
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 8:15:47 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Mogami

quote:

Because there are 1000 items and only 100 slots. I had to remove items to fit it in


Please explain?

Surface Raiders - Yes just want the INJ needs !

Now all we need are a fleet of Japanese Carrier Subs.

I hope your scenario ships with the game!

How easy/hard is it to add new artwork to the game for new ships/aircraft?



Hi, I hope every one understands that every item added with special attributes requires more code for it to be used by the AI and everything in a offical scenario needs to be used by the AI. Scenario designers can add items for human use and just set house rules. My AMC has a load value of 3500. I'm not sure but where the AI or a dingbat human might try to put 3500 float planes on it. I'm considering classing it as a CL (Since it is a cruiser of sorts and in order to commerce raid it need to be allowed into a surface TF and AP's cannot be placed in surface TF.
But if I design a scenario to play Brady in a PBEM game and make a house rule not to put more float planes on it then I have no problem with code.
I've added a few ships that are large bulk carriers. The house rule for their use is they can never load anything except resource points.

The I-400 boats are included in the game. I've added the D-1 class as well. (no torpedos. How the AI would use these would require alot of work but Brady will know they are only for supply transport. And then there is the time thing. 2By3 and Matrix could keep on adding things till the cows came home and never finish the game. Scenario designers will have all the work already done to start with and only need to add what they think is missing and change what they don't agree with.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 13
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 8:39:36 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Cl, might be the way to go on that Mogami. I must say I do appricate the effort Mogami.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 14
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 9:29:32 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I've made 9 of them so far. I know they were not all the same and as I learn more details they will each be changed.
Also I've found two ex Chinese CL that entered Japanese service in 1944 and placed them into the production pool. (Built in Shanghai by the Japanese they were completed in 1937. Scuttled and then raised the Japanese converted them to convoy escort and they entered service. One was sunk by USN submarine the other by aircraft from TF 38.)
Ioshima and Yasoshima.

I going to add the "Wuden Hulled Fleat"

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 15
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 10:10:18 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami

No Brady I modified it for you. I put 84 on map and 25 in the pool you'll have to pick a factory to build them. (I always turn off the Hickory since I don't like it)

I'm thinking that people will love the editor as much as they love the game.



I still have to get the airplane facing the other way.





Does this mean people can eventually add japanese midget subs to the game???

_____________________________


(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 16
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 11:44:33 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline 		From this thread I still do not understand the 'empty slots' story. Mogami or someone in the know, could you explain in more detail the 100 empty slots vs the 1000 items?

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 17
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 1:23:55 PM   
Radzy

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/19/2004
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline 		Additional question for additional units: Will it be possible to capture ships or even rebuild ships scuttled (well, maybe not scuttled but captured in port due to unability to break through enemy blockade as it historically happened few times)? The same question for aircraft or even land equipement (I mean, will it be possible to capture them)?

Sorry if that was mentioned, hovewer I couldn't find any answer using forum's search engine...

< Message edited by Radzy -- 6/3/2004 3:58:03 PM >

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Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears
Ains a year say a prayer faur me
Close yir een an remember me"
Sgt. MacKenzie

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 18
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 4:03:53 PM   
rhohltjr


Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pascal

From this thread I still do not understand the 'empty slots' story. Mogami or someone in the know, could you explain in more detail the 100 empty slots vs the 1000 items?


Yes. Enquiring minds want to know this. I remember trying to figure out which stuff to pick for the empty slots in PacWar. So ,... how about that 100 slots vs 1000 items then....

(in reply to Pascal_slith)
Post #: 19
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 6:02:35 PM   
Blackhorse


Posts: 1983
Joined: 8/20/2000
From: Eastern US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami
Also I've found two ex Chinese CL that entered Japanese service in 1944 and placed them into the production pool. (Built in Shanghai by the Japanese they were completed in 1937. Scuttled and then raised the Japanese converted them to convoy escort and they entered service. One was sunk by USN submarine the other by aircraft from TF 38.)
Ioshima and Yasoshima.


Hi Mogami. Glad to see that you're adding the ex-Chinese cruisers Ping Hai ("Amicable Sea") and Ning Hai ("Peaceful Sea"). I'm surprised they're not in the main game database -- I remember them being added to one of the PACWAR updates.

A little more history: Ning Hai was built for China in Japan, at the Hirami shipyard. Laid down in 1930, completed in 1932. Ping Hai was built by the Chinese, to the same design, in Shanghai. Laid down in 1931, and scheduled for a 1933 launch, but not completed until 1936 because the Japanese ended technical assistance and the Chinese replaced the planned Japanese armament with Krupp and Bofors guns.

Both vessels were sunk, or ran aground, in combat on the Yangzte river in September, 1937. They were captured by Japan, refloated, towed to Japan and used as floating barracks. In 1944, because of the critical shortage of escort vessels, the Japanese refitted both vessels as second-class cruisers. The Ning Hai became the Yashoshima, and the Ping Hai was commissioned as the Ioshima.

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Oddball: Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?
Moriarty: Crap!

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 20
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 6:24:27 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		[/quote]

Does this mean people can eventually add japanese midget subs to the game???
[/quote]

Hi, Adding Midgets subs is easy. Adding submarines that are in fact torpedos (Kaiten) is much harders. You see one is a vessel that fires weapons. The other is a weapon deployed by another ship (or from a shore installation)

The great difficulty with midgets is their range. There is no way to load them onto a larger ship for transport.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 21
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 6:27:34 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		So Mogami, what ships are you deleating to add these, or rather what class of ships, since as I understand it an entire class must be romoved to add another one......corect?

(in reply to Blackhorse)
Post #: 22
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:04:09 PM   
pry


Posts: 1410
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas
Status: offline 		Any changes made with the editor (new things) are totally dependent on the number of empty slots available in the correct data base for the item that you are trying to change or add. The size of each database is different depending on how much information was needed to create the current scenarios with a few slots left empty empty for user defined enhancements. There are empty slots in every database (except leaders) some have a large number and some have very few it depends on the database.

There are 8 individual databases that make up each scenario

Individual ship database (This is where you set their detailed information, location or arrival)
Ship class database (this is where you create a class complete with weapons Etc.)
Aircraft database (class Db for aircraft)
Air group database (this is where you create groups and set their location or arrival)
Location data base (All base, LCU and on map TF information)
Device database (this is where you create weapons)
Pilot database
Leader database

There is also a individual scenario database where you set game length, replacement pilots etc…

Having spent the last 10 weeks of testing doing nothing but working on scenarios with the editor, I can tell you once you get used to how the editors work they are very easy to use. (Very time consuming but easy)

< Message edited by pry -- 6/3/2004 11:23:19 AM >

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Post #: 23
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/3/2004 7:20:04 PM   
Jaypea

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		I am really looking forward to playing with the editor. It makes this game so much more replayable. Hats off to the developers for including such a powerful editor with the game.

merci!

(in reply to pry)
Post #: 24
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/4/2004 12:27:35 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Replayable?
I played PACWAR and was only able to play it three times through. Took me a veeery long time. This monster will probably last until retirement

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
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Post #: 25
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/4/2004 12:33:52 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		No first turn is likely to be the same forget about the entire 1600 odd turns being the same! There really is no end in sight.

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 26
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/4/2004 12:34:45 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		This is not a game, it's a bloody profession

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

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Post #: 27
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/4/2004 6:04:24 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline
quote:

There are empty slots in every database (except leaders) some have a large number and some have very few it depends on the database.


Quesion for Pry.

1. If there are no free slots for leaders, does that mean you can't add additional land or ground units, because they require leaders?

2. Have they added addition slots for aircraft? I remember after the editor doc was released it was noted there were only 3 or 4 slots available for new Japanese aircraft types.

3. Is it possible to add a new location on the map, edit the Map and add location data?

< Message edited by pad152 -- 6/4/2004 4:05:09 AM >

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 28
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/4/2004 6:11:54 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

3. Is it possible to add a new location on the map, edit the Map and add location data?


No

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 29
RE: Why Would They Leave out........ - 6/4/2004 6:14:32 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		TY, Pry for the info.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 30
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