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Limited Ammo advice? - 6/10/2004 9:11:37 PM

Flyboy

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Joined: 6/10/2004
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I usually play with limited ammo off, but am about to start a PBEM game with limited ammo on . . . if I understand ammo carriers and ammo dumps, carriers have to be in an adjacent hex to the reloading tank, while tanks have to share the same hex with an ammo dump, which reloads at twice the rate of a carrier (assuming zero suppression).

Any tips, tactics etc with respect to ammo carrier or dumps?

Post #: 1

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/10/2004 9:22:20 PM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
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You just have to be next to either kind of ammo supplier. You never are required to share the same hex.

I wouldn't worry too much about reloading tanks with ammo when you just start PBEM. Your tanks are going to die before they run out of ammo or the game will end by the time you get around to reloading most tanks. There are a few that have limited ammo loads. Just exercise fire discipline and don't shoot at everything that moves. That's a better way to go about it rather than worrying about reloading tanks.

Your onboard arty is the thing that will require more reload attention.

rb

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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Post #: 2

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/10/2004 9:35:09 PM

Flyboy

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Joined: 6/10/2004
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Thanks rbrunsman.

I'm going to be playing Germ, defending against Russ assault in JUly 1944 (Kursk time). I plan on having 50% of Russia's combat points.

In your experience, will Tiger (early) tanks run out of ammo if we play a long (35 turn) game? How many turns will elapse before will I have to reload 'em, assuming they each fire 2-3 rounds per turn?

Also, with limited ammo on, what happens to OB arty and rockets? Just read the arty tactics thread, but I'm not clear on this.

Without having tried it yet, I thought a good tactic might be to move SPA around with an ammo carrier in tow, using scouts to pop smoke and confuse his counterbattery (my opponent is actually an arty officer in real life, and looooves counterbattery) . . .

Do forts (AT pillboxes) run out of ammo?

Thoughts?

< Message edited by Flyboy -- 6/10/2004 7:35:45 PM >

(in reply to rbrunsman)

Post #: 3

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/10/2004 10:10:48 PM

Voriax

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Flyboy, with limited ammo on your OB rockets will essentially be "one shot wonders". So you better make that one salvo count. with arty it'll take several turns until they run dry. Perhaps 8-10 turns with light arty, 4-5 with heavier stuff. Of course you could turn off some of the guns in each battery to conserve ammo.

As for your pillboxes, they can run out of ammo but they usually have so much to start with it really isn't a problem. With reduced ammo on then even they may run dry.

You can figure out turns until reload by looking at the oob files (select editor from menu). You early Tiger has 60 AP rounds. Considering you will not fire every turn I'd say some tanks may run out of ammo but not all. Also keep in mind that ammo trucks/dumps reload HE first, then AP...so if you have fired 10 HE a truck will spend several turns filling up HE before it even starts loading AP..reload rate for larger rounds is like 1-3 rounds/turn

Voriax

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RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/10/2004 10:47:10 PM

Flyboy

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Thanks - stupid question (is there any other kind from a Matrix Recruit?) - how do I turn tubes off for OB arty?

If I take OB arty as reinforcements, say 20 turns into the game, do they come fully loaded?

< Message edited by Flyboy -- 6/10/2004 8:50:46 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/10/2004 10:55:24 PM

Voriax

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From: Finland
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Go to the bombardment menu, then click the 'show data' button for those batteries you want to turn off tubes. Then just click the tube, it'll turn red. Just like if you'd turn off infantry weapon or tank weapon. You'd want to turn off at least the first gun as if the battery suffers a weapon breakdown it'll break the first gun and renders whole battery unusable. So fire first with the guns 2-4 and when they run out activate the 1st gun. Unless you play with breakdowns off, then it doesn't really matter.

Voriax

_____________________________

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Post #: 6

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 12:13:06 AM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flyboy

Thanks rbrunsman.

I'm going to be playing Germ, defending against Russ assault in JUly 1944 (Kursk time). I plan on having 50% of Russia's combat points.

In your experience, will Tiger (early) tanks run out of ammo if we play a long (35 turn) game? How many turns will elapse before will I have to reload 'em, assuming they each fire 2-3 rounds per turn?

Also, with limited ammo on, what happens to OB arty and rockets? Just read the arty tactics thread, but I'm not clear on this.

Without having tried it yet, I thought a good tactic might be to move SPA around with an ammo carrier in tow, using scouts to pop smoke and confuse his counterbattery (my opponent is actually an arty officer in real life, and looooves counterbattery) . . .

Do forts (AT pillboxes) run out of ammo?

Thoughts?

My thoughts:
Unless your opponent is very new to PBEM also, I suggest you play with equal points. If I were playing against you, I'd take 1/2 the points as the ATTACKER, not 1/2 the points as the defender. SPWAW really, really favors the attacking country.

I wouldn't rely on pillboxes too much. As soon as they are located, they can be rendered useless with one smoke round. You could increase visibility to 30+ hexes to make the smoke have less effect.

As for arty selections, you will want to slow the Russian's attack down with the arty, not stop it (because you won't be able to). So, to do this you should use 105mm tubes. 150s are great but you just don't get as many rounds out of them. The 75mm tubes don't offer splash damage so they aren't too good at defending either even though you are unlikely to run out of ammo with some of them. 105s are the best for the money.

Good luck and let us know how you do.

rb

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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Post #: 7

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 12:15:05 AM

Goblin

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rbrunsman,

How you doin', baby?

Goblin

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Post #: 8

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 12:17:14 AM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
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_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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Post #: 9

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 6:37:17 AM

Tequila

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Glad someone else likes 105mm arty. Speaking of 105mm, one of my favorite pieces of German anti-infantry, russian- horde busting armor is the StuH42. Mixing StuH42s and flame tanks is a great way to fend off the endless russian infantry letting your Tigers focus on hardware. :)

< Message edited by Tequila -- 6/11/2004 4:41:06 AM >

(in reply to Flyboy)

Post #: 10

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 9:06:59 AM

Mangudai

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From: The Middle West
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quote:

My thoughts:
Unless your opponent is very new to PBEM also, I suggest you play with equal points. If I were playing against you, I'd take 1/2 the points as the ATTACKER, not 1/2 the points as the defender. SPWAW really, really favors the attacking country.

Are you serious

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Post #: 11

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 3:53:36 PM

FNG

Posts: 514
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From: Devizes, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mangudai

quote:

My thoughts:
Unless your opponent is very new to PBEM also, I suggest you play with equal points. If I were playing against you, I'd take 1/2 the points as the ATTACKER, not 1/2 the points as the defender. SPWAW really, really favors the attacking country.

Are you serious

The attacker can bring his entire force to bear at one point in the defence, then defeat the defenders in detail as they re-position themselves to protect against the assault. Initially, the defender has to defend (or at least cover) his entire frontage. A good mobile reserve will help the defender, but if the attacker has done his homework he should defeat a static enemy every time (in SP:WaW :) ).

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Post #: 12

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 5:00:28 PM

Frank W.

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From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
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best arty in game is the US 105mm ( in H2H ) because better acuracy and hitting power than axis ones.

(in reply to FNG)

Post #: 13

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 5:02:07 PM

Frank W.

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From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
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but i think perhaps the 4.2 inch is a better buy, because lower delay and almost the same HE rating as 105. your thoughts ?

german arty:

120mm mortar

russian:

122mm + 120mm mortar

british

25 pdr. + 5.5. inch

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Post #: 14

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 6:10:27 PM

Veroporo

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Joined: 10/20/2002
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quote:

FNG wrote:
A good mobile reserve will help the defender, but if the attacker has done his homework he should defeat a static enemy every time (in SP:WaW :) ).

Think it this way: The attacker buys a mobile attack force and gets it going. The defender uses a quarter for recoinnaise and the rest for an attacking force. After some turns the counterattacks begins and it's 2 attacker's tanks versus 3 defender's (whom are attacking)! So the mobile reserve does not only help, but wins.

And then you can say it's not defending, and you're right ;)

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Post #: 15

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 6:19:13 PM

rbrunsman

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From: Phoenix, AZ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mangudai

quote:

My thoughts:
Unless your opponent is very new to PBEM also, I suggest you play with equal points. If I were playing against you, I'd take 1/2 the points as the ATTACKER, not 1/2 the points as the defender. SPWAW really, really favors the attacking country.

Are you serious

Yes. I am. I'm quite good at attacking static defenses, especially if you're a newbie.

rb

< Message edited by rbrunsman -- 6/11/2004 9:19:50 AM >

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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Post #: 16

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 7:41:27 PM

Maciste

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I'm currently playing against the AI with Russians against Germany... I changed my early HMG's to to Katyushas with an ammo carrier per platoon, and my SPAA for mixed 152 and 122 howitzers (for them, I'd buy ammor carriers or dumps, depending if I'm attacking and defending). Now I've got a great field artillery barrage that almost never run out of ammo, and I love to focus all my arty power against the main body of the attacking army while my tanks and some infantry creeps by its side to attack the flank and rear of attacking force... �I pity that poor A0 HQ with its SMG against 9 KV-1(c)!

(in reply to rbrunsman)

Post #: 17

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 8:16:46 PM

Mangudai

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quote:

Think it this way: The attacker buys a mobile attack force and gets it going. The defender uses a quarter for recoinnaise and the rest for an attacking force. After some turns the counterattacks begins and it's 2 attacker's tanks versus 3 defender's (whom are attacking)! So the mobile reserve does not only help, but wins.

And then you can say it's not defending, and you're right ;)

Exactly.

I believe rbrunsman that he could deal with static defenses like fortifications, mines and obstacles for 1/2 the cost of the defender. But armor can be used equally well by both sides. And, infantry have a significant advantage defending good terrain.

(in reply to Veroporo)

Post #: 18

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 9:54:25 PM

Poopyhead

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Now you're talking! Never defend anything, always attack. Last man standing gets the VH's.

Rock on!

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Post #: 19

RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/11/2004 11:21:13 PM

rbrunsman

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mangudai

But armor can be used equally well by both sides. And, infantry have a significant advantage defending good terrain.

First, your armor, as defender, is limited because it needs to defend some piece of ground. It therefore loses some of its advantages compared to the attacker who can go anywhere with it.

Second, don't rely too much on this mythic "significant advantage defending good terrain." Sitting still in SPWAW gets you killed no matter how good your terrain is. You need to move to be successful in PBEM.

For these reasons, in PBEM anyway, the attacker shouldn't be getting much of a point advantage in most cases.

rb

_____________________________

Everyone is a potential [PBEM] enemy, every place a potential [PBEM] battlefield. --Zensunni Wisdom

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RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/12/2004 4:59:49 PM

Gvaihir

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I second Rbrunsman as I experienced numerous times (even on my own armored skin) what happens when you dug in your butt and wait for your foe to come. Not a very brilliant tactic...

Nevertheless, terrain is an advantage but you cannot aford to rely solely on it.

Gvaihir

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RE: Limited Ammo advice? - 6/12/2004 7:32:38 PM

Frank W.

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i guess in H2H it�s a bit more difficult for an attacker because of lower spotting and the missing "*".....anyway i�m not good in both roles seems i have played to much meeting engagements.

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Post #: 22

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