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Any resources on building campaigns? - 12/16/2001 2:43:00 PM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		Hello, I am in the process of creating a campaign involving a company of FJ (that's right, a single company, I don't enjoy creating large scenarios) as they fight from action in Spain*, Poland, Holland, France, Crete, Eastern Europe, France, the Ardennes, and finally Germany itself. Divided into several 'operations' in the style of the campaign collective, ie. no rebuild points until the operation is complete . And even then expect me to be a stingy bastard with the points even then, due to the fact that finding good paratroopers is hard and Germany wasn't too keen on keeping up with demand . What I need are a few tutorials, such as tips on planning operations, how to create those little introductions and debriefings, any tricks to keep the player from screwing the campaign up (accidently), etc. Also any information on FJ battles, either fighting as paratroopers or elite infantry, would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
*Is having a company of FJ fight during the Spanish Civil War exceptionally ahistorical? All I really know is that a few small units fought to test the theory of blitzkrieg, not any real specifics. [ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ]



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- 12/16/2001 7:02:00 PM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		I can't answer your question, but allow me to voice my support for your project- it sounds like an excellent idea.

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Post #: 2
- 12/16/2001 7:10:00 PM   
Mikimoto

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 11/6/2000
From: Barcelona, Catalunya
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Kuroshio Apocal:
*Is having a company of FJ fight during the Spanish Civil War exceptionally ahistorical? All I really know is that a few small units fought to test the theory of blitzkrieg, not any real specifics.[ December 16, 2001: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ]
Hi Kuroshio. The infamious "Legión Cóndor" did not included parachutes. They tested some delicious things, here in Spain: Tanks, Carpet Bombing over civillians, Close air support, etc... But there weren't parachutes in the Spanish Civil War.

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Miquel Guasch Aparicio

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Post #: 3
- 12/16/2001 7:40:00 PM   
wulfir


Posts: 3091
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Achtung Fallschirmjäger, stillgestanden! An interesting project you got there! Go for it, I’d sure hope to see it finished some day… Some advice from an amateur: Nothing beats your own experience…I would recommend that you toy around a while with the editor and the edit campaign function and learn how they are used if you are not already familiar with them. It might be a good idea to make an experimental campaign just a few battles long - sort of like a practice run. Could save you some sweat when you start up working on the real campaign…things like how to set aux status and not forgetting the off board artillery or Jabos or that the reinforcement flags are set while you are editing the map and not while deploying the troops and so on… Your intention is to make a campaign that will span the entire war, that really is commendable – quite an effort. I have been working on one limited to Normandy, and boy, I had no idea of the time it takes. Don’t let this scare you however, just keep in mind when you begin that it could take more time then you had anticipated. Be prepared, stock up on Pepsi, Coca-Cola or whatever you favour. Also, it is good to have a basic plan for the flow of the campaign clear before you start – it makes things easier if you know where you want go. I had to learn this the hard way. The book Storming Eagles by James Lucas handles the history of the German paratroopers during the course of the Second World War. Not perhaps all that detailed but you might want to check into it anyway, it gives a good background if nothing else. Finally – save, save, save…

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Post #: 4
- 12/17/2001 9:19:00 AM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks for all the good advice and encouragement everyone. This could get awfully big, quick, with seperate missions for defeats, victories, and draws, etc. Player plays about 4-8 missions per operation. Including side missions for different results, thats about 8-16 total missions per operation. Then again, I could make it that decisive defeats in certain missions mean that the player's remaining forces are assumed to be destroyed, dispersed, or captured... damn I'm evil . Mikimoto, I wasn't planning on putting any paradrops into the Spanish Civil War operation. It was more of a 'these-troops-and-their-gear-needs-to-be-combat-tested'. A quick, mostly easy fighting against light opposition. Example, in the first mission it is quite possible to win without suffering a single casualty. The intent is (as I believe it was historically) to get your troops some combat experience. Don't worry though, after the first operation, it gets tougher. A lot tougher . I've made a few sample battles, nothing ground-breaking, just enough to give me something to get my feet wet and behind my ears dry. But does anyone have any idea how to create, format, and order those little briefings at the beginning and end of every mission? EDIT: 'campaign' in the first paragraph should of been 'operation'. Fixed. [ December 17, 2001: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ]



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- 12/18/2001 8:16:00 PM   
TheZel66

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 4/6/2001
From: Phila, PA
Status: offline 		I asked Wild Bill a while back if he'd put together a basic tutorial on the ins and outs of building a campaign.. Bill???

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- 12/19/2001 10:14:00 AM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		Well, I have kept moving on, taking all your advice into account, and now the Spanish campaign (no paradrops, just fighting to prove your worth to Hitler, unless you screw up particularly badly) is 85% complete. However, I hit a snag, a pretty big one actually. Is there anyway to control paradrops in a campaign game? If I set the aircraft to AUX status, they cannot be loaded with core-force units. If I allow the player to drop wherever they please, then scenarios will be unbalanced. Especially in scenarios where (historically) the drops were scattered, and units had to fight to reform, then fight to the objective. Any workarounds? [ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ]



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Post #: 7
- 12/19/2001 5:29:00 PM   
Fredde

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Kuroshio, There is no way of presetting where you can or cannot drop hard-coded as far as I know, if not using AUX troops altogether. A work-around for this (which I have used plenty of times in my own scenario creation) is to simply mark on the map with the text writing function where you want your drop zones and write it clearly in the introduction text. It is just like introducing an "extra rule" in a board game to make it more interesting. Most players will follow this to get themselves a more interesting/historical battle. Those who not, well, that's up to them. If they like unbalanced games better.. let them Good luck with your campaign, and don't hesitate to ask more questions. I and others are more than willing to help.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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Post #: 8
- 12/20/2001 2:18:00 PM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		Ugh. I surely do hope that CL incorporates some more concrete ways of controlling player deployments during the campaign. IE. set some battles for free deploy and some as a fixed deploy. Well, I just started on the Low Countries operation. Expect your first real fights here. I screwed myself over on the first mission, neglected to set my airstrikes as AUX, so they weren't there during the campaign battle. That is supposed to be the main weapon killing those pesky hilltop defenders. Not suppressed, they torn into my company's collective ass from the DZ to the military crest. Still, I managed to pull a draw out of assaulting up-hill, against an experienced enemy infantry company, supported by 40mm Bofors and several infantry guns. I'm glad I chose to end the campaign (temporary) after that, I don't think I would of even survived the easiest of battles with what was left of my unit. Call it 25-30 total effective paratroops, including mortar crews, out of the entire company, thats all that was left after going up that damned hill . Still can't figure out those introductions though, I know I'm close, it keeps niggling on my brain, I just don't know what it is... [ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ]



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Post #: 9
- 12/20/2001 9:00:00 PM   
wulfir


Posts: 3091
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Kuroshio Apocal:
Still can't figure out those introductions though, I know I'm close, it keeps niggling on my brain, I just don't know what it is...
Inside the Edit Campaign you can right-click on the various scenarios and possible results and simply type whatever briefing or end-result text you wish to have. Example:
(the first battle might look something like) (the first scen) DL ML D MV DV
000 Battle#1 0001 0001 0001 0002 0002 Just right-click on the numbers and type. (what you type at Battle#1 will be the introduction for the campaign and the first scenario, at DL it will be the text that appears if the player receives a Decisive Loss etc.) If you wish to edit the text later, look it up in the SPWAW Campaigns folder. It will be a notepad (I think this is the English name) file for every briefing and result, named something like c002c000, c002c0001, c002c002… If you have a long text you might wish to have breaks or empty lines. Use this symbol: *. Also, if you have written a long text, at for instance the first briefing, don’t try to view it while in the Edit Campaign. As far as I know you can have several pages of text but there is a limit to how long the text can be when you write or try to view it while you are still in the Edit Campaign function. I am not aware of any rules as to how the text is to be written. I think the only limitations there is your own imagination. However, people do seem to avoid using very foul language. Hope that was what you wanted to know.
/ Ulf [ December 20, 2001: Message edited by: Wulfir ]



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Post #: 10
- 12/20/2001 11:20:00 PM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks! It was that easy? Wow. I am an idiot.

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Post #: 11
- 12/21/2001 12:45:00 AM   
Fredde

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Another advice. Go for the text files in the campaign directory directly and use your favourite editor instead of writing it in the rather limited game provided one I am actually also in the process of creating a parachutist scenario in the low-countries. Hypothetical one featuring a German paradrop to secure a bridge over the Dyle.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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Post #: 12
- 12/21/2001 12:13:00 PM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		Thanks, Fredde. Not to knock Matrix, but I didn't know the meaning of limited until I used that in-game text editor. So far the campaign is going well, except for the fact I forgot that FJ didn't drop with weapons or ammo. I know I could simulate that via taking away all their ammo and having them drop, but once again, the ugly way campaigns are made prevents me from doing it. Perhaps a toggle called Airborne Assault? In which you can assign a mix of transports and/or gliders to the core force thus forcing them to leave the heavy stuff while taking only a limited amount of troops per wave? Just an idea.

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Post #: 13
- 12/21/2001 8:49:00 PM   
kurtbj

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 5/15/2001
From: UK
Status: offline 		Kuroshio,
Good Luck with your campaign. I like the sound of it, sounds similar to the Balkan camapign I did with a small amount of forces and few rebuild points. The biggest advice I can give you is that its very difficult to decide how many rebuild points to give. When my campaign was tested I had some people telling me how easy it was and others claiming it was impossible. Part of the problem was trying to account for what the player would buy in his core forces...in hindsight maybe I should have bought the units for the player (no Panthers/Tigers etc). I really hope you have fun doing the campaign. The best advice for learning how to do it is to look at existing camapigns and text files to see how its all put together..thats how I learnt it. Good Luck Kurt

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- 1/4/2002 3:21:00 AM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		OK, I have mostly finished up with the campaign in Low-Countries and it's on to Crete. However, given the nature of operations in Crete and the limitations of the SP:WaW editor, I've decided to portray the the taking of an AA position, by a relatively intact company. However for later battles, I was wondering if it was possible to have AI controlled units and formations, strictly off-limits to the player. I've always hated it when people have used AUX units as meatshields, protecting their core units while treating the AUX like cannon-fodder. While historical in some cases, it isn't in others and I was hoping that the AI could have control of a few of the units, to keep that sort of thing out of the battles.

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Post #: 15
- 1/4/2002 3:53:00 AM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Howdy Stone is rollin', huh ? Ok, you can do alot with the Freds editor and saved game. You can take ammo out and give them back in game by airdropping 'ammo-canister' from Norway/-dec.-49. I have done it into my campaign. (that is to be released in January ) But don't take gun away, it can be replaced by the engine with something weird. It is not easy task to deny from player AUX-units use. I don't know is it possible, but I would go for third player (p3) and assign that to AIs control with all set up. It could work, somebody could test it ? Better way that I would consider and have used with success is that you give to core and to AUX-forces something very clearly important work. Kind that keeps them busy so that they can't be used 'wrong', and if used too freely player will loose his core. Nasty way but gives alot to handle to player who tries to do something unwanted, yet gives good feeling when used right. Its not a balance and amount of opposing forces, but how they are used mosh

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mosh

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Post #: 16
- 1/4/2002 5:01:00 AM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Ok, you can do alot with the Freds editor and saved game. You can take ammo out and give them back in game by airdropping 'ammo-canister' from Norway/-dec.-49. I have done it into my campaign. (that is to be released in January ) But don't take gun away, it can be replaced by the engine with something weird.
And this works with campaigns? Yahoo! What is the specific procedure for this? I guess I might have to tone down some of the defenses to account for the fact that your troops are going to be scrambling for their weapons and ammo after they scatter everone and hit ground.
quote:

It is not easy task to deny from player AUX-units use. I don't know is it possible, but I would go for third player (p3) and assign that to AIs control with all set up. It could work, somebody could test it ? Better way that I would consider and have used with success is that you give to core and to AUX-forces something very clearly important work. Kind that keeps them busy so that they can't be used 'wrong', and if used too freely player will loose his core. Nasty way but gives alot to handle to player who tries to do something unwanted, yet gives good feeling when used right.
I never really considered that. Come to think of it, it might work better that way, in a few later scenarios. Of course, it does look a bit odd for other units not-attached to be commanded by an officer of lower rank .

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- 1/4/2002 2:55:00 PM   
Fredde

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by skukko:
Howdy
Ok, you can do alot with the Freds editor and saved game. You can take ammo out and give them back in game by airdropping 'ammo-canister' from Norway/-dec.-49. I have done it into my campaign. (that is to be released in January ) But don't take gun away, it can be replaced by the engine with something weird.
mosh

Mosh, this would not work with core forces? I've tried to do that several times, works in the first battle (with prebought/save file core force) but in the second battle ammo is all back to normal (together with changed weapons). This forced me to stick with non-modified way-too-heavy equipped Finnish soldiers in my campaign

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

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Post #: 18
- 1/4/2002 7:44:00 PM   
skukko


Posts: 1928
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		If that is so Gunner then I haven't just noted it. Ways to get over it could be using edited AUX -units to present this lack of ammo and core to something else, IE holding positions while others get weapons are loaded. I've done that and it was nailbiting action for core.
I'll get back to campaign work to see what can't be done MCs work a bit differend ways as those are hardcoded campaign-engines. mosh

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Post #: 19
- 1/5/2002 6:32:00 PM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Fredde:
...I've tried to do that several times, works in the first battle (with prebought/save file core force) but in the second battle ammo is all back to normal (together with changed weapons)...
Argh! Once again, limitations on the engine come up and bite me on my ass ! Still haven't gotten around to testing those AI controlled units, I'll let you guys know how it goes. For now I'm snarled back at tweaking the balance of the Belgian operation. Even with the minimum of missions, you would take between 40-60% losses. Not cool, in terms of what I want the operation to play out like. [ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ] [ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Kuroshio Apocal ]



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Post #: 20
- 1/11/2002 12:32:00 PM   
Kuroshio Apocal

 

Posts: 49
Joined: 11/16/2001
From: Riverside, California, USA
Status: offline 		While testing and balancing my campaign, I noticed something a little odd. My HQ unit (6 men) took 1 casualty during the first battle. Nothing wrong there, stuff happens. No repair points were issued between the first and the second battle, yet come next mission, my HQ unit had 6 men in it. Does SP:WAW actually get down to the grunt-level and determine just what sort of casualty was inflicted? And then have slightly wounded members return? If so, that's pretty damned cool. If not, put it in CL . Also, after I playtested my second operation, and let the campaign flip back to the first mission, I noticed that the replacement squads (to fill in for the ones completely wiped out) were at a (relatively) high experience of 75-85! As well as several of my near-elite units, around 90-99, had their experience level take a bit of a dip down to 80-90 experience. I'm talking units that took maybe one casualty, so I didn't repair them. Did the game simulate dispering veteran NCOs and officers to buck up replacement units? Very, very, very cool if SP:WAW did.

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