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How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 7:55:11 PM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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I know 2by3 has two other projecsts in the works right now, so im not trying to start anything.
Im just trying to get a headcount here.

The question is...If 2by3 announced today a new WiR...how many would immediatly earmark the money for its purchase?

I will raise my hand and be the first
Thanks in advance for the responses

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Post #: 1

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 7:56:43 PM

daniel123

Posts: 296
Joined: 8/30/2000
From: Orlando
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i would want it to be a western and eastern front.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 2

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 7:59:32 PM

kaleun

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline

Me too, but then again, I would also buy UV Med.
Now what would be good would be a UV Med+WIR+Western front.

All rolled up in one BIG game

< Message edited by kaleun -- 6/16/2004 12:00:13 PM >

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Post #: 3

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:00:22 PM

ZOOMIE1980

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I know 2by3 has two other projecsts in the works right now, so im not trying to start anything.
Im just trying to get a headcount here.

The question is...If 2by3 announced today a new WiR...how many would immediatly earmark the money for its purchase?

I will raise my hand and be the first
Thanks in advance for the responses

Probably.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 4

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:07:13 PM

daniel123

Posts: 296
Joined: 8/30/2000
From: Orlando
Status: offline

using ssg maps and units

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)

Post #: 5

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:10:36 PM

dwesolick

Posts: 593
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline

Count me in! (on any and all the above)

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(in reply to daniel123)

Post #: 6

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:14:46 PM

GameTester

Posts: 156
Joined: 6/14/2004
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How about WiE?

(in reply to dwesolick)

Post #: 7

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:16:25 PM

ZOOMIE1980

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
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Or how about this idea.

Rework the WitP data engine to take out all the hard coding (basically keeping the combat resolution modules, production management, etc...), maybe move to a structured disk file data management system, basically an engine designed for comsumer use, and then sell just the engine with a game editor and clip-art, sample video, etd... that you can draw your own maps, animations, and so on, and we can all use the engine and map generator to make our own wargames where 2X3 maintains a nominal licence fee for each copy sold in a commercial venture...

Or, for geeks like me, sell the engine as a C++ class library API that I could use to assist in coding my own game for my own private use....

And before anyone laughs, that is EXACTLY what UnReal has done with their stuff. You can licesnse the engine and buy their level editors and pre-packaged artwork and such and actually use that to develop your own RTS/FPS type games. You can also get a C++ API to do more indepth game development (which is what you see when you see games reviewed in PC Gamer that say "uses the UnReal engine").

(in reply to daniel123)

Post #: 8

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:20:46 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone�
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Fallschirmjager,

I would buy it, that's certain. But I agree with Daniel. It should be the whole "european theatre": east and west fronts and north Africa ("and Asia" in fact, in case germans managed to invade Egypt -or the Caucase from russian front- and advance towards the oil fields in Persian Gulf). And I would like the UV system (or WITP, since they say it is even better). Some players don't like the "infantry combat" engine. I do like it. I think it is very realistic and to tell the truth I am not interested about the "tactical" thing. A game including both european and Pacific theatres would be probably a monster though. 2 games would be fine. And now we are about to have one: WITP.

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)

Post #: 9

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:21:25 PM

Blackwatch_it

Posts: 247
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I know 2by3 has two other projecsts in the works right now, so im not trying to start anything.
Im just trying to get a headcount here.

The question is...If 2by3 announced today a new WiR...how many would immediatly earmark the money for its purchase?

I will raise my hand and be the first
Thanks in advance for the responses

I'm in for WiR

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 10

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:31:05 PM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
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From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
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Try and keep it to the original question

I would like to see WiR and then WiE seperatly

Otherwise you are going dangerously off course into grand stratadgy

WiR was and is a massive game and its at a good scale.
Updated graphics and interface....better combat and economics model and better supply model and you have a fine wargame.

If they decided to put both fronts together...I would probably not purchase such a game...its just way too big
WiR is one of the best wargames I have ever played
Its only marred by the horrible eye hurting graphics and the piss poor interface

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Post #: 11

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:39:54 PM

ltfightr

Posts: 537
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Little Rock AR
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I want it all. WITP level game encompassing the world no diplomacy just the actions (declarations of war that the minor countries did historically ie Brazil Hungary ect) unless a major country attacks them 1st like USA attacking argentina.

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(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 12

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 8:45:43 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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I don't know about you guys, but I'd really like to see 2by3 go into some tactical stuff like maybe Jutland. WitP is going to fill my strategic time for a long time to come and WoW is shaping up to be a real fun quick & dirty team game too.

I want Naval Battles at the epic level! A good tactical real time two player Jutland just suits the bill.

Did I mention that Jutland would be good idea?

I miss my GNB days! I miss my Harpoon days! Navy! Navy! Navy!

(in reply to ltfightr)

Post #: 13

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:00:22 PM

Apollo11

Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
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Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I don't know about you guys, but I'd really like to see 2by3 go into some tactical stuff like maybe Jutland. WitP is going to fill my strategic time for a long time to come and WoW is shaping up to be a real fun quick & dirty team game too.

I want Naval Battles at the epic level! A good tactical real time two player Jutland just suits the bill.

Did I mention that Jutland would be good idea?

I miss my GNB days! I miss my Harpoon days! Navy! Navy! Navy!

Jutland would be great!

But let us not forget:

Norm Koger (author of TOAW): The Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905 (Development Title) - Tentative release Q3/2004

http://home.austin.rr.com/normkoger/RJW.html

Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 14

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:04:39 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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I asked about Norm's stuff and got pretty much told the combat routines were at the child level.

(in reply to Apollo11)

Post #: 15

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:21:28 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

I don't know about you guys, but I'd really like to see 2by3 go into some tactical stuff like maybe Jutland. WitP is going to fill my strategic time for a long time to come and WoW is shaping up to be a real fun quick & dirty team game too.

I want Naval Battles at the epic level! A good tactical real time two player Jutland just suits the bill.

Did I mention that Jutland would be good idea?

I miss my GNB days! I miss my Harpoon days! Navy! Navy! Navy!

Listen to the sound of my voice Gary.....you want to update Warship and Battlecruiser......battleships rock......Jutland rules.........its been nearly 20 years. We need an update.....Apple IIe sound effects suck.........

_____________________________

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 16

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:28:51 PM

TulliusDetritus

Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone�
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Fallschirmjager,

well, historically you can't separate "WIR" and "WIE". There was a primary front: in Russia. And then secondary fronts: north Africa and Normandy. There was too the "Atlantic front": the submarines (there was some activity even in the Indian Ocean). I think we could manage it, why not? This hypothetical game covering the WHOLE european theatre a.k.a. "Germany first" would be more or less like WITP. And don't forget "germans" were in the Atlantic, North Africa, and whole Europe. It's the same "enemy"

Burma and/or China would be => North Africa and/or Normandy
Russia would be the whole Pacific Ocean => the "serious" and DECISIVE fight between US and Japan

It all depends on the taste of each player, which I respect, of course. By the way, to me WIR is probably the best strategy game too (UV changed my opinion).

Anyway, perhaps the question is: are anglo saxon companies interested about a game in which the r�le of americans/british IS secondary -although the "propaganda" tries to falsify history in order to mask this fact? Why do you think they NEVER did that game yet?

Mr. Frag,

when it comes to massacring ("tactical"), I prefer Doom2 or Wolfenstein Enemy Territory

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 17

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:30:22 PM

dwesolick

Posts: 593
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline

Never played it before, but HPS Simulations (the guys that make Panzer Campaigns) have a tactical PC game based on Jutland. Looks like you can control the entire fleets on either side, etc. Can't vouch whether it's good or not since tactical really isn't my cup of tea.

Here is the link to their website: hps games

< Message edited by dwesolick -- 6/16/2004 7:36:22 PM >

_____________________________

"The Navy has a moth-eaten tradition that the captain who loses his ship is disgraced. What do they have all those ships for, if not to hurl them at the enemy?" --Douglas MacArthur

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 18

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:32:54 PM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Fallschirmjager,

well, historically you can't separate "WIR" and "WIE". There was a primary front: in Russia. And then secondary fronts: north Africa and Normandy. There was too the "Atlantic front": the submarines (there was some activity even in the Indian Ocean). I think we could manage it, why not? This hypothetical game covering the WHOLE european theatre a.k.a. "Germany first" would be more or less like WITP. And don't forget "germans" were in the Atlantic, North Africa, and whole Europe. It's the same "enemy"

Burma and/or China would be => North Africa and/or Normandy
Russia would be the whole Pacific Ocean => the "serious" and DECISIVE fight between US and Japan

It all depends on the taste of each player, which I respect, of course. By the way, to me WIR is probably the best strategy game too (UV changed my opinion).

Anyway, perhaps the question is: are anglo saxon companies interested about a game in which the r�le of americans/british IS secondary -although the "propaganda" tries to falsify history in order to mask this fact? Why do you think they NEVER did that game yet?

Mr. Frag,

when it comes to massacring ("tactical"), I prefer Doom2 or Wolfenstein Enemy Territory

WiR had secondary fronts abstracted but still represented.
The larger you get...the more detail you lose.
I would like to see every front treated seperatly at higher detail
But perhaps that is just me
I have never liked massive type wargames
WiTP will be massive of course

and it remains to be seen how much I will enjoy it compared to UV

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Post #: 19

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:35:52 PM

LTCMTS

Posts: 300
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From: Newnan, GA
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How about combining it with the old WitW companion game for a big old WiE?

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 20

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:37:47 PM

dwesolick

Posts: 593
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

Never played it before, but HPS Simulations (the guys that make Panzer Campaigns) have a tactical PC game based on Jutland. Looks like you can control the entire fleets on either side, etc. Can't vouch whether it's good or not since tactical really isn't my cup of tea.

Here is the link to their website: hps games

They also have Tsushima and Guadalcanal at the tactical level.

_____________________________

"The Navy has a moth-eaten tradition that the captain who loses his ship is disgraced. What do they have all those ships for, if not to hurl them at the enemy?" --Douglas MacArthur

(in reply to dwesolick)

Post #: 21

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:42:33 PM

Jonny_B

Posts: 299
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From: Dunnellon, Florida
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War in Europe 1939-194?

This game engine would need a change in land combat.
The air combat and naval combat engines are already great in Witp.
However, land combat would have to be on a tactical level, interactive screenplay level.

Positioning armor, artillery, infantry units, etc., able to call for air strikes, possibly played in real time environment.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 22

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:48:58 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

I know 2by3 has two other projecsts in the works right now, so im not trying to start anything.
Im just trying to get a headcount here.

The question is...If 2by3 announced today a new WiR...how many would immediatly earmark the money for its purchase?

I will raise my hand and be the first
Thanks in advance for the responses

Then I will be the second!

Played long time ago Russia on C-64 (when i was a high school pupil)....amazing game!

Unfortunatly, after Russia there was no a game like this one. Road to Moscow stucked somewhere and never see the day light

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 23

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:49:19 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline

quote:

I want Naval Battles at the epic level! A good tactical real time two player Jutland just suits the bill.

THATS IT! YOUR OFF THE TEAM FOR USING CURSE WORDS!

< Message edited by Kid -- 6/16/2004 7:54:06 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 24

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:52:08 PM

Blackwatch_it

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Joined: 2/6/2004
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[/quote]

WiR had secondary fronts abstracted but still represented.
The larger you get...the more detail you lose.
I would like to see every front treated seperatly at higher detail
But perhaps that is just me
I have never liked massive type wargames
WiTP will be massive of course

and it remains to be seen how much I will enjoy it compared to UV
[/quote]

There is a 2by3 projesct on hold for the new russian front game:

http://www.2by3games.com/ussr.htm

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 25

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:52:08 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

THATS IT! YOUR OFF THE TEAM FOR USING CURSE WORDS!

Thank god! I finally figured out how to get the boot! All these months of making Kid pull his hair out with sloppy bug reports for nothing. All I had to do is say real time!

< Message edited by Kid -- 6/16/2004 8:00:19 PM >

(in reply to siRkid)

Post #: 26

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:52:24 PM

tiredoftryingnames

Posts: 1919
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From: Chesapeake, Virginia
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Real time is bad for this type of game.

(in reply to siRkid)

Post #: 27

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:52:37 PM

siRkid

Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Try and keep it to the original question

I would like to see WiR and then WiE seperatly

Otherwise you are going dangerously off course into grand stratadgy

WiR was and is a massive game and its at a good scale.
Updated graphics and interface....better combat and economics model and better supply model and you have a fine wargame.

If they decided to put both fronts together...I would probably not purchase such a game...its just way too big
WiR is one of the best wargames I have ever played
Its only marred by the horrible eye hurting graphics and the piss poor interface

I'm right there with you.

_____________________________

Former War in the Pacific Test Team Manager and Beta Tester for War in the East.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 28

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:54:13 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
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From: Alien spacecraft
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tiredoftryingnames

Real time is bad for this type of game.

Indeed! "Fighting Steel" proved that. Trying to simotaniously monitor up to 20 ships sucked.

Turn based is the only way to go. Warship/Battlecruiser's system has IMHO never been bested in terms of putting the player in the middle of the action.

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Post #: 29

RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/16/2004 9:55:13 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

Real time is bad for this type of game.

Real time flow, with order phases every x number of seconds.

ie: Think like this:

I want to order a turn, I signal a turn by raising the right flags. Ships follow my signal. Some don't see the battle orders, things get confusing.

I don't mean real time continuous, just not 24 hour turns

I want to command the fleet, not run the ships. Ships are run by their own commander, with his own strengths and weaknesses. Crew quality determines how the individual ship performs.

Think of Jelly-belly standing on his deck, issuing orders while reports are coming in. You want to live it at the command level, not micromanage it at the nuts and bolts level.

< Message edited by Mr.Frag -- 6/16/2004 2:58:56 PM >

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Post #: 30

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