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Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game??? Noone ever uses it right???

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game??? Noone ever uses it right??? Page: [1]
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Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game??? ... - 6/29/2004 10:55:59 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		Seems like everyone hates this order and never uses it. While the AI always uses it which doesnt seem fair.

Ive never understood the purpuse of this order. I know that no japanese commander would ever use this order because range is his advantage.

Was this put in the game just for the allies so they can offset this advantage and scoot a little closer by getting an extra hex move???

What's the reasoning behind this order and why??? Id rather it not be in the game...

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 11:09:06 AM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline 		That’s not true. Everyone hates what happen when you forget to turn this on/off when you need to…React to enemy carriers can be used very effectively, for example only with react set on you can ambush IJN carrier (1 or 2 stupid to engage enite KB) early in the war and enter the battle without a/c range disadvantage… there are many other ways to successfully use it…

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 4:38:42 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Ditto that. With good intel, it can be a powerful tool. I know ..I had it used on me.

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 4:44:08 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

only with react set on you can ambush IJN carrier


Yeah, that's what Tanaka was saying. It seems to help the allies but not the Japanese. As the Japanese I would like an option to react BACK and keep the range I want. In fact, "react to" should be changed to "React to range X" where X is the preferred range you set ahead of time. It would be part of the battlle doctirne to try and force a fight at a certain range.
By the way, is "react to" just for reacting to enemy CVs? If so it is kind of useless. I think ot would also scoot your CVs closer to any merchant shipping that was almost in range to get in completely in range.

(in reply to Subchaser)
Post #: 4
RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 4:46:02 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Hey dt,
How about a react and flee order? launch the planes.. especially if they could make it to anouther base and "get the heck outta dodge"

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 6:22:14 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Hey dt,
How about a react and flee order? launch the planes.. especially if they could make it to anouther base and "get the heck outta dodge"


Sounds good to me. I think that is pretty much what the Japanese did at the Marianas. It would also be good if you were launching an all-kamikaze strike. I argued earlier in development that the range for kamikazes should be double the plane's normal range since it is a one-way trip but that idea was rejected.

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 6:46:44 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Too the music for the christmass tree( oh tannanbaum)

" oh editor oh editor.. forever we are greatfull.. oh editor oh editor.. forever we are greatfull.. for when the fall you pick them up and when they sink you mend them up.. oh editor oh editor ...."

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 6:49:40 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Launch and Flee??? That sounds like a Nik the 'coward' tactic

Fine with that as long as 100% of your planes are lost from running out of fuel and crashing into the sea.

The standard practice is to launch and close range to try and give the fighters more air time over the target, not launch and move away.

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 6:57:37 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		"We are the new admirils trying to actually win.. not locked into some historical model of Jap failure" ok that being said.. after 43 are any of these planes coming back to my fleet? And why wouldn't they land on an Island base.. refuel and make there way back?

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 7:29:26 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Launch and Flee??? That sounds like a Nik the 'coward' tactic




who hasn't sent his turn 1 yet?



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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 8:01:54 PM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka

Seems like everyone hates this order and never uses it...

I only hate it when I'm the underdog, and I forget to turn it off.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
I know that no japanese commander would ever use this order because range is his advantage.

Are you kidding? I find it especially useful to punish foolish USN Players who stray too far from LBA support...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
Was this put in the game just for the allies so they can offset this advantage and scoot a little closer by getting an extra hex move???

The "one step in waltz" that you refer to only applies to UV. In WitP, React is completely Player controllable.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tanaka
What's the reasoning behind this order and why??? Id rather it not be in the game...

It was used to simulate the doctrine of "closing the range" that both US and IJN used when attacking sea borne targets. Admirals figured it they were gonna fight, the were gonna let it rip.

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 8:02:15 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

only with react set on you can ambush IJN carrier


Yeah, that's what Tanaka was saying. It seems to help the allies but not the Japanese.


Japanese player can effectively use ‘react to’ tool also, at least in UV. I won several CV battles as IJN using this tactics. If you choose your starting position wisely and have enough intel on enemy position - your carrier TF react to enemy carriers and move into excellent attack position out of Devastators torpedo range (5 hexes away from the enemy), TBD still can attack, but only with bombs… ten times less effective weapon to be used by TBD… => IJN wins.

IJN can also include some slow warships into CV TF and reduce maximum speed of TF (and reaction jump radius as well), I prefer to use Nagato class BBs. If these are in CV TF, your carriers can’t do those 12 hexes jumps, only 10… and here we go.. sometimes you don’t see TBD at all, they are just ballast aboard US carriers.

...of course it works only when US TF do not have ‘react to enemy’ orders (pretty often in my practice), but all this makes your tactics more flexible

quote:

By the way, is "react to" just for reacting to enemy CVs? If so it is kind of useless. I think ot would also scoot your CVs closer to any merchant shipping that was almost in range to get in completely in range.


Yes it is only for reacting to enemy CVs and it’s extremely useful. Fortunately CVs do not react to any merchant shipping, surface combat groups and other auxiliary TFs, just imagine this, your carriers react to anything larger than barge? Total mess.

< Message edited by Subchaser -- 6/29/2004 9:10:37 PM >

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 9:03:51 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Hey dt,
How about a react and flee order? launch the planes.. especially if they could make it to anouther base and "get the heck outta dodge"


Sounds good to me. I think that is pretty much what the Japanese did at the Marianas. It would also be good if you were launching an all-kamikaze strike. I argued earlier in development that the range for kamikazes should be double the plane's normal range since it is a one-way trip but that idea was rejected.



Hey..get this.....there was actually a Kamikaze training school


And they wondered why the 10 yr reunions were so poorly attended.

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RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 9:50:14 PM   
ATENTOKO

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 8/14/2002
From: las palmas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

only with react set on you can ambush IJN carrier


Yeah, that's what Tanaka was saying. It seems to help the allies but not the Japanese.


Japanese player can effectively use ‘react to’ tool also, at least in UV. I won several CV battles as IJN using this tactics. If you choose your starting position wisely and have enough intel on enemy position - your carrier TF react to enemy carriers and move into excellent attack position out of Devastators torpedo range (5 hexes away from the enemy), TBD still can attack, but only with bombs… ten times less effective weapon to be used by TBD… => IJN wins.

IJN can also include some slow warships into CV TF and reduce maximum speed of TF (and reaction jump radius as well), I prefer to use Nagato class BBs. If these are in CV TF, your carriers can’t do those 12 hexes jumps, only 10… and here we go.. sometimes you don’t see TBD at all, they are just ballast aboard US carriers.

...of course it works only when US TF do not have ‘react to enemy’ orders (pretty often in my practice), but all this makes your tactics more flexible

quote:

By the way, is "react to" just for reacting to enemy CVs? If so it is kind of useless. I think ot would also scoot your CVs closer to any merchant shipping that was almost in range to get in completely in range.


Yes it is only for reacting to enemy CVs and it’s extremely useful. Fortunately CVs do not react to any merchant shipping, surface combat groups and other auxiliary TFs, just imagine this, your carriers react to anything larger than barge? Total mess.

VERY GOOD YOUR OF YOU. I´VE ALSO USED IT SOMETIMES, BUT I DON´T REALLY COME TO MANAGE IT WELL.
MORE TIME IN FROM OF THE CIC ISUPOSE

(in reply to Subchaser)
Post #: 14
RE: Why is the react to enemy carriers even in the game... - 6/29/2004 10:30:07 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline 		CIC also.

BTW, please fix your Caps Lock key!

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Post #: 15
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