Feinder
Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
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1st, regarding the CA vs. PTs...
Not sure if I read you correctly, but as I understood, you were complaining that the 5" gun from the Atago sank the PT in 1 shot.
Not a problem at all. The PTs were made largely of plywood. A single 5" shell would sufficiently level your house (depending on the size of your house). No way! Yes way. A 5" shell ~ 127mm, that's a big friggen HE shell against a "soft" target like a PT boat.
1 5" shell = no more PT boat.
The first thing a weapon has to do is penetrate the armor of it's target. This is a fairly straightforward calculation. There are ratings for weapons, whether they are a bomb, or a 30cal tailgun of your Dauntless. 30cals have a penetration of 1, and and 18" gun has a penetration of 850. You take the armor rating of whatever is hit (usually deck armor for bombs and plunging (long range) naval fire, belt armor for close range naval fire and strafing. If the armor isn't penetrated, probably nothing happens, or if you're lucky, maybe 1 or two sys damage. However, if penetration > armor then...
The relative damge caused, is rated by the "effectiveness". That is the relative amount of "kablam!" of the shell. A Mk 16 - 6" gun has an effectiveness of 130. So if it hits something with an armor value of 200 or less, it will penetrate and use it's "kablam" of 130 against...
The "durability" of the target. This number roughly equates to the size/displacement of the vessal. A PT boat with a durability of 1 or 2, can be swatted with 50 cals (effect 10) and go down at the end of the engagement. The higher the "durability" (loosely translated, displacement) the ship, the harder it is to damage it (regardless of armor).
The durability of the Atago is 55, while the durability of the Saratoga is 110. These aren't so much "hit points" as they are "hit ability to absorb". Hitting the Saratoga with a 6" gun (200 penetration vs. belt armor of 175 = success), compares the effectiveness (123) vs. durability (110). This is going to cause about 10 - 15 sys damage (my guestimate, I have no idea of the formula). Whereas if the same 6" gun hit the Atago (200 penetration vs. belt 125 = success), compares effectiveness (123) vs. durability (55), is probably on the order of 15 - 20 sys damage. So the same shell, penetrating both ships, will do more damage to the smaller vessal (the Atago).
The 50 cals of the PTs can't penetrat the Atago's armor to begin with (50 cal penetration of 2 vs. Atago's belt armor of 125). But even if they did, the effectiveness of the 50 cal (10) vs. the durability of the Atago (55), is minimal.
Now the other way around. Assume it's the 5" guns of the Atago (not even the 8"ers), firing at your PT. The 3YT - 5.5" gun, has a penetration of 60, vs. the ZERO armor of the PT boat (which means that ANYTHING will penetrate it). Since the shell has penetrated, the "effectiveness" of the 5.5" gun (82) is rolled against the durability of the PT (which is 1). Bascially, all that is left is driftwood and a few arms and legs.
* This is one of my pet peeves tho. While in-game you CAN you pretty well whack a DD by strafing it (because your MGs penetrate 1, and DD armor is normally 0), I think it's a bit overpowered. While I don't think that DDs should be immune to MG fire (example Wake Island defense), I -do- think that the sys damage from aircraft 30/50 cals and the PTs 50cals and 20mms guns do far more sys damage than would actually be reasonable. Maybe give the DDs an armor rating of 2 or so (the P39 has an armor rating of 1 after all, more than DD!), would cut down on the (sometimes HUGE) sys damage that can be caused by a couple of strafing fighters.
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When do I withdraw ships?
It depends on alot of things.
a. How long is the scenario? In a 2 month scenario, sending a ship back would be meaningless. By the time it was repaired and returned, the game would be over. Even if it has 25 sys damage, as long as it can make 20kts, it's good for SOMETHING. If the number gets to where it isn't useful, I'll send it back to Rabaul/Noumea/Brisbane (wounded reserve sort of thing), but only if I'm worried about losing the vps, would I send it back. In a long scenario, where you actually can get your ships back, it's more tempting to return them. Natually, if I have a "wounded reserve" that has a valid replacement waiting in Pearl/Kure, then send it back.
b. Even for long scenarios (when you -might- get your ship back), consider the date (esp for Japan). For IJN, the "allowable points" (your ship commitment) rises thru about Sept 42, and then decreases ever more rapidly thru 1943 (which means that by Dec 43, you don't have many toys to play with, even if they're not sunk). So sending back the Kaga with 15 sys damage might be ok in Sept 42, because you'll still have ample points to have it returned to you in Jan 43. However, sending Kage back in Jul of 43 with 15 sys damage is worthless, because even after she is repaired, you're not likely to have sufficient "allowable points" in your pool in Sept 43 to get her back.
c. For the USA, send back all you want. Obviously, you don't want to send back all your CVs at once and be left with a handful of cruisers to face the IJN onslaught, but use your head. But USA "allowable points" are an ever increasing number, so sending a damaged ship back whenever, isn't usually a problem (unless it's Nov 43 and the scenario ends in a month anyways).
d. USN also get Flak and ASW upgrades (IJN does NOT upgrade, anything, ever). WONDERFUL stuff. VERY worth it. Keep your ships on a good rotation so that they get the upgrades (usually an increase of about +75% AAA and ASW). For the USA, I genearlly start sending a ship back at 15 sys damage. Again, use your discretion. If IJN has 4 CVs in theater, it's probably a good idea to keep 4 CVs of your own (unless there's already a CV waiting in Pearl to replace the one you send back).
*** edit : gave some explicit examples for you. I think this is what you're looking for.
< Message edited by Feinder -- 6/29/2004 3:39:57 PM >
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Damage - 
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) and for its troubles recieves 27 hits from CA Suzuya`s 5in guns. Sunk before end of day. Needless to say no torps launched.
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