More Kills than Enemy Aircraft?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> More Kills than Enemy Aircraft?

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More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/4/2004 10:43:46 PM

Duane1972

Posts: 5
Joined: 9/7/2002
Status: offline

I had the following combat report in Scenario 5:

Attacking Aircraft:

AGM2 Zero x 8
G4M1 Betty x 55

Defending Aircraft:

F4F-4 Wildcat x 34

Enemy Aircraft Losses:

AGM2 Zero x 13 destroyed
G4M1 Betty x 50 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied Aircraft Losses:

F4F-4 Wildcat x 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Could this be pilots claiming more kills than occurred or possibly more aircraft attacking than what was initially reported?

Post #: 1

RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/4/2004 10:49:29 PM

bradfordkay

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline

It's called Fog Of War... your pilots are reporting more kills than they actually got. You didn't really believe them, did you?

If two pilots shot at one plane and each claimed a kill, did they get one or two planes? The combat report shows pilot claims, the intelligence screen gives a more accurate report.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Duane1972)

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RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/4/2004 11:06:59 PM

Duane1972

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Joined: 9/7/2002
Status: offline

Thanks Brad,

I thought that might be happening but wasn't sure.

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RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/4/2004 11:09:59 PM

TheHellPatrol

Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

I'm glad this was brought up, last night my sqd. of 76 Hellcats came across 26 Zeke's and after a rather long fight the tally was 73 Hellcats to 9 Zeke's

. Almost over i thought, but at 69 Hcts to 0 Zks it ran for another 5 minutes. End results: 138 Zeke losses & 14 Hellcat losses

None of the numbers matched up, okay FOW, but at first glance i thought it was "looping" because it kept alternating "shots" 69 Hks vs. 0 Zks & 0 Zks vs. 69 Hks and so on and so on. I am still confused as to what is a more accurate account, but as long as they stay dead

, i'll live.

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

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RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/5/2004 1:23:55 AM

MadDawg

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline

Ive noticed some whacky results too...check out this thread guys where Ive explained it in more detail.

Currently it seems that the air to air Combat Animation and the following Combat Summary both have different FOW applied to each, thus they do not match each other. This may be by design but it seems really odd considering the manual states otherwise and the Combat Summary of ship combat, etc, gives a true account of the battle.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=647545

Dawg

(in reply to Duane1972)

Post #: 5

RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/5/2004 6:29:47 AM

Belphegor

Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

I am not at all convinced that the ship reports are not affected by FOW...

I sunk two CLs at Wake according to reports... in the ships sunk list I have two DDs sunk at Wake. So at least when Air to Sea combat happens the reports can be FOW too. Waiting for some ships I have sunk in surface action to show up...

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Post #: 6

RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/5/2004 6:41:50 AM

MadDawg

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Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline

Belphegor, yup, ship combat does have FOW in it which is great but that isnt what Im getting at. What I was saying is that this Ship Combat Animation and Combat Summary shown directly after the animation do *match* each other (even though both are incorrect due to FOW).

My point is that the Air to Air combat Animation and A to A Combat Summary (shown right after that AA combat finishes) dont match each other most of the time. If you check the manual it gives the impression that this shouldnt be the case and its got me wondering if its some sort of bug. At the moment its just a little confusing with two different reports being given on the one battle.

Dawg

(in reply to Duane1972)

Post #: 7

RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/5/2004 6:44:44 AM

Belphegor

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Joined: 5/10/2004
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Aha! Now I understand what you were saying... thanks.

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RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/5/2004 4:32:15 PM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Hey MadDawg,

UV worked the same way, as I recall. It's a deliberate design decision. The reason there's more disparity in the air (as opposed to surface combat) reports is that it was harder to verify pilots' claims, since dogfights have fewer witnesses and often take much less time than ship-to-ship slugfests. If a ship sinks during surface combat, that's a hard fact to miss. If a plane is hit and later ditches in the ocean, no one may know. More generally, as others have noted in this thread, pilot claims were especially exaggerated.

What's always struck me as odd is that the intel screen gives a pretty accurate lowdown of both air and naval losses, which takes some of the fog out of the fog of war. Maybe this has been changed; I'll have to watch it more closely. I always thought the intel screen in UV was too intelligent.

(in reply to MadDawg)

Post #: 9

RE: More Kills than Enemy Aircraft? - 7/5/2004 11:40:07 PM

MadDawg

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline

Just so we are on the same page....

The FOW in air to air combat is fine I think and it makes sense it is quite inaccurate. Try this though...watch a combat animation of an air to air battle, couple the kills you see per aircraft type, and then compare these values to the on the Combat Summary show directly after and you will see they dont add up. Thus basically we have having Fog of War applied in two different ways for the one battle.

Personally I think it would be best to have these too value the same, as the combat animation seems to give a much closer account of the battle yet I dont always want to spend my time watching it.

I dont see any real reason to have two different FOW results from the one battle and after reading the manual it seems like it shouldnt be that way.

Does that make more sense guys?

Dawg

PS : Grotius, I am pretty sure that the intel screen is 100% accurate for both sides for air to air and ships lost? Ships do have a delay before they show up now though, of between 0-60 days depending on their spotting.

< Message edited by MadDawg -- 7/5/2004 9:44:04 PM >

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