Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercing values)?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercing values)?

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Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercing va... - 7/7/2004 11:23:08 PM

Paulus Pak

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/23/2001
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline

I'm playing WWII Generator Campaign, first battle in december 1942 r. I have bunch of Tigers and PzKpfwIVG's. I'm shooting (from Tigers) at russian T-70's, from 38-39 hexes. I got several hits (88mm) and NO penetration. Information box is showing some strange data about T-70 armor during hits (calculated values varies from 1500, up to 2000). Shooting at T-34 from Tiger(28 hexes) - several hits, and no penetration (calculated armor value - 2900 at maximum). Shooting at T-70 (20 hexes) from PzKpfwIVG (75mmL-48) - several hits, no penetration (calculated armor value - 2000 at maximum). Shooting from Tiger at T-70, from 3 (THREE) hexes - several hits, AND NO PENETRATION (calculated armor value - 1500 at maximum). What's going on?
If you want, I can send you a savegame with this situation.

Post #: 1

RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/8/2004 2:47:01 AM

stevemk1a

Posts: 855
Joined: 3/30/2002
From: Penticton B.C.
Status: offline

My first suggestion would be to check your preferences. For some reason, the game will sometimes jack up the Armour toughness preference to something really high, like +1600% for no apparent reason

. If this happens, just delete the steel.prf file and that usually fixes things.

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Post #: 2

RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/8/2004 6:30:21 AM

BryanMelvin

Posts: 1555
Joined: 7/28/2000
From: Colorado, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulus

I'm playing WWII Generator Campaign, first battle in december 1942 r. I have bunch of Tigers and PzKpfwIVG's. I'm shooting (from Tigers) at russian T-70's, from 38-39 hexes. I got several hits (88mm) and NO penetration. Information box is showing some strange data about T-70 armor during hits (calculated values varies from 1500, up to 2000). Shooting at T-34 from Tiger(28 hexes) - several hits, and no penetration (calculated armor value - 2900 at maximum). Shooting at T-70 (20 hexes) from PzKpfwIVG (75mmL-48) - several hits, no penetration (calculated armor value - 2000 at maximum). Shooting from Tiger at T-70, from 3 (THREE) hexes - several hits, AND NO PENETRATION (calculated armor value - 1500 at maximum). What's going on?
If you want, I can send you a savegame with this situation.

Ahh, now I can discuss this: Best to Check the SPWAW Manual page 190 for more details.

Spwaw considers a units size, terrain , weather, speed of target, etc, and slope of hit. The flat level 0 ground is not all flat - spwaw engine calculates dips and rolls in the ground that can add too or subtract from a deflected shot. The game factors all these things in. Just shoot at these within 800 to 1000 yards and you'll brew'em up.

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RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/8/2004 8:32:00 PM

Paulus Pak

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/23/2001
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: willy

My first suggestion would be to check your preferences. For some reason, the game will sometimes jack up the Armour toughness preference to something really high, like +1600% for no apparent reason . If this happens, just delete the steel.prf file and that usually fixes things.

That's it. Russian tank toughness set at 1600%. Thank you for advice.

(in reply to stevemk1a)

Post #: 4

RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/8/2004 8:37:15 PM

Paulus Pak

Posts: 109
Joined: 1/23/2001
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BryanMelvin

[Ahh, now I can discuss this: Best to Check the SPWAW Manual page 190 for more details.

Spwaw considers a units size, terrain , weather, speed of target, etc, and slope of hit. The flat level 0 ground is not all flat - spwaw engine calculates dips and rolls in the ground that can add too or subtract from a deflected shot. The game factors all these things in. Just shoot at these within 800 to 1000 yards and you'll brew'em up.

I understand calculations quite well, I'm playing in SPWAW from version 4-something, earlier I was playing for a very long time in SP-1, SP-2 and SP-3. So I can say, that I'm an experienced player. And I know warfare history quite well.
But when I'm shooting from 3 hexes (1 hex=50 meters, isn't it?), from Tiger I, at T-70, and all I got are ricochets and nothing more - than I'm sure, that something is wrong.
But know problem is fixed, preferences got messed up...

(in reply to BryanMelvin)

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RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/12/2004 11:44:44 AM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

When in doubt with some results of the armor pen routines, hit ALT-L to write the armour routine calculations into a text file called combat.txt This is to be found in the games root folder. Sometimes with certain horizontal hit angles (anything non perpedicular), huge armor values (and following ricochet) are calculated. The game assumes some vertical hit angle as well, so you seldomly achieve any book values!

Off course at times a corrupted *.prf causes some trouble too, but most of the time things appear quite in order after checking above mentioned combat.txt file!

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RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/12/2004 3:22:55 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

When in doubt with some results of the armor pen routines, hit ALT-L to write the armour routine calculations into a text file called combat.txt This is to be found in the games root folder. Sometimes with certain horizontal hit angles (anything non perpedicular), huge armor values (and following ricochet) are calculated. The game assumes some vertical hit angle as well, so you seldomly achieve any book values!

Off course at times a corrupted *.prf causes some trouble too, but most of the time things appear quite in order after checking above mentioned combat.txt file!

With an armor value of 2000 on a T-70, you can safely assume a corrupt *.prf file.... Even with angles and modifiers, armor thickness can't possibly reach those levels. The angle in that case would be 0-1 degrees, i.e. parallel to the hit surface.

I've had that problem too. My Tigers were thwarted outside Stalingrad by a mighty BT-11.

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RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/14/2004 9:47:05 AM

Jamminji

Posts: 199
Joined: 4/4/2003
Status: offline

I have a couple questions about this annomally...

First what do you do with the corupted prf file(s)? Where/what is it?
Second, if this happens in a PBEM game what is the general rule... ie start over? Can you fix it "in"game? etc.

jam

(in reply to Belisarius)

Post #: 8

RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/14/2004 2:34:54 PM

Voriax

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline

Jamminji, the file in question is 'steel.prf' and can be found from the 'save' subfolder.
As to what to do with it, delete

It contains your preference settings and probably some other things too. After you have deleted it just start the game and it will create a new .prf file. Of course you have to redo all your preferences.

Deleting this file will correct many, many 'odd behaviour' style bugs you may encounter.

I can't tell what an pbem game likes about deleting steel.prf, perhaps some other person can help with that.

Voriax

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Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!

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Post #: 9

RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/14/2004 2:43:58 PM

Belisarius

Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline

IIRC, PBEM games don't like tinkering with the steel.prf file. If it's corrupted you need to restart the game since your opponent's game files will re-write your FUBAR steel.prf even if you delete it.

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Post #: 10

RE: Something wrong with armor values (or armor piercin... - 7/14/2004 10:07:01 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
Joined: 1/18/2001
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockinHarry

When in doubt with some results of the armor pen routines, hit ALT-L to write the armour routine calculations into a text file called combat.txt This is to be found in the games root folder. Sometimes with certain horizontal hit angles (anything non perpedicular), huge armor values (and following ricochet) are calculated. The game assumes some vertical hit angle as well, so you seldomly achieve any book values!

Off course at times a corrupted *.prf causes some trouble too, but most of the time things appear quite in order after checking above mentioned combat.txt file!

With an armor value of 2000 on a T-70, you can safely assume a corrupt *.prf file.... Even with angles and modifiers, armor thickness can't possibly reach those levels. The angle in that case would be 0-1 degrees, i.e. parallel to the hit surface.

I've had that problem too. My Tigers were thwarted outside Stalingrad by a mighty BT-11.

Yep. It�s the *.prf file me thinks too.

The combat.txt file is quite handy for debugging purposes though.

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Post #: 11

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