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RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR

 
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RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/19/2004 9:27:52 AM   
Becket


Posts: 1269
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartley

Sure, but what is the commercial potential of any wargame not involving US forces ?



Sad but true in many respects.


I don't think so. Maybe it's because I almost never play the US (except in revolutionary war scenarios or Nato vs USSR scenarios) but I think most people who play the US would be very happy playing either Germany or the Soviets.



I think Battlefront did just fine with Combat Mission: Barbarrossa to Berlin, even though it features nary a Western soldier.

_____________________________


"The very word Moscow meant a lot to all of us....it meant all we had ever fought for" -Rokossovsky

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 91
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/19/2004 9:35:48 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		After the shelacking I just receved from Arnir I hesitate to make a statement of this scope, but I would contend that the Wehrmacht had very little chance of completely destroying Russia's ability to make war. I think the standing misconception is that by taking Moscow, the Germans would have won the war. This is a mistake in my opinion. The key to defeating Russia was the industry and oil supplies. By throwing Guderian at Moscow instead of Kiev, Germany would have forefitted much of the advantage they had going into the summer offensive of '42, making the penetration of the Caucasus that much harder. Much of the heavy industry was already out of reach in the Urals by this time. As for the government, that would be very silly, with Uncle Joe having a train waiting for him at the station.

(in reply to Becket)
Post #: 92
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/19/2004 10:03:48 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		oni,
Fortunately we will never know, but I agree, and I like to point out vast areas greeted the germans as liberators... strange but true. If they had the sense to "free" these subjugated peoples perhaps several hundred thousand troops, or more could have been trained and deployed.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 93
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/19/2004 10:20:24 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		There is three kinds of stupid: Stupid, realy stupid, and attacking Russia

That said, I always played the Germans when playing WIR.


_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 94
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/19/2004 3:15:42 PM   
Becket


Posts: 1269
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

oni,
Fortunately we will never know, but I agree, and I like to point out vast areas greeted the germans as liberators.


It is true that the Kazahks and other ethnic minorities felt this way. To their everlasting sorrow, for the most part. The persecution by their "liberators" came quickly, and then the persecution by Stalin fell swiftly after the territory was retaken.

To Oni -- the point about Moscow is really tied in to whether they get Stalin. If Stalin dies, IMO there would be a huge power vacuum, perhaps significant enough to cause the country to surrender. Maybe not, though. However, if they achieve Moscow and the Cacausus, then Russia's ability to make war would be gone, for at least a few years. The Soviets might wait patiently on the other side of the Urals, then come out years later to counterattack, but that's about all they could do.

Remember, if Gamelin had positioned better forces at Sedan, or if he had abandoned the Dyle Plan and kept his forces in France, we might be talking about whether or not it was possible for the Germans to take France. OKW put the chances of success at 10%. Barbarrossa is similar, to me at least.

< Message edited by Becket -- 6/19/2004 1:16:42 PM >

_____________________________


"The very word Moscow meant a lot to all of us....it meant all we had ever fought for" -Rokossovsky

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 95
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/19/2004 9:48:04 PM   
highblooded

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		The Eastern Front is my favorite WW2 theater of all time. I would definately purchase an updated version of WIR. Gary please please please remake this game for windows.

(in reply to Becket)
Post #: 96
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 12:14:00 AM   
Stavka_lite


Posts: 171
Joined: 3/15/2004
From: Tucson
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Becket

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartley

Sure, but what is the commercial potential of any wargame not involving US forces ?



Sad but true in many respects.


I don't think so. Maybe it's because I almost never play the US (except in revolutionary war scenarios or Nato vs USSR scenarios) but I think most people who play the US would be very happy playing either Germany or the Soviets.



I think Battlefront did just fine with Combat Mission: Barbarrossa to Berlin, even though it features nary a Western soldier.


Battlefront released Afrika Korps (Med Front) a couple of months ago and you can't find a Russian anywhere in that game

_____________________________

Yes, it is a dry heat... but so is a bloody blast furnace!

(in reply to Becket)
Post #: 97
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 7:38:56 AM   
PlacidDragon

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		I'd definately order an updated WIR, that is my favorite strategy war game of all time (hands down) :)

(in reply to Stavka_lite)
Post #: 98
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 8:08:18 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Just so everyone knows, back in 2000 we put a lot of time into the database, map and initial design of a new Russian front game. If I remember it right, it was 10 mile hexes and used a system that was turn based with move/attack in the same phase. This was put on the back burner while we finished UV/WitP and then World at War. We felt that World at War had greater sales potential and after all of the time invested in UV/WitP we wanted to work on something a little simpler. If/when we get back to working on a Russian Front game, it will be the one we started work on in 2000. We know what we wanted to do, just didn't have the time to do it and everything else. Once WitP and GGWaW come out, we have at least 5 games we are interested in working on (the only two you guys know about now are Med War and Russian Front). As usual, our eyes are bigger than our stomachs. We'll just have to all wait and see what develops.

(in reply to PlacidDragon)
Post #: 99
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 8:31:52 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Wow I'd love a screen shot of the map.

_____________________________






I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 100
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 11:39:23 AM   
Reichenberg

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 2/7/2004
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		Thanx for the inside info about your projects.

And I still Would prefer Russian Front over Med War

Uwe

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 101
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 3:57:00 PM   
PlacidDragon

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		Thanx for the information Joel I guess i'll just cross my fingers then

(in reply to Reichenberg)
Post #: 102
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/20/2004 10:23:16 PM   
Svar

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 9/7/2000
From: China Lake, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Just so everyone knows, back in 2000 we put a lot of time into the database, map and initial design of a new Russian front game. If I remember it right, it was 10 mile hexes and used a system that was turn based with move/attack in the same phase. This was put on the back burner while we finished UV/WitP and then World at War. We felt that World at War had greater sales potential and after all of the time invested in UV/WitP we wanted to work on something a little simpler. If/when we get back to working on a Russian Front game, it will be the one we started work on in 2000. We know what we wanted to do, just didn't have the time to do it and everything else. Once WitP and GGWaW come out, we have at least 5 games we are interested in working on (the only two you guys know about now are Med War and Russian Front). As usual, our eyes are bigger than our stomachs. We'll just have to all wait and see what develops.


I have been waiting along with all the WIR beta testers since you first announced the new Russian front game. I know Gary has already done it three times but it was always a DOS game and he could do wonders with Windows just like WitP. I also realize that you need to make money so fully support your World at War game and will buy it as soon as it comes out.

< Message edited by Svar -- 6/20/2004 8:23:41 PM >

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 103
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 6/21/2004 1:53:33 AM   
IronDuke_slith

 

Posts: 1595
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Manchester, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus
probably due to that flap a few years back where someone posted an article that showed that despite claims that the game calculated results based on indiv weapons stats, in actuality it just added up all the values and came up with very generalistic combat results. This allowed some anomolies to show up....such as 50mm AT guns being more effective than 75mm (german) and other examples were shown

Caused a big brew ha ha. Supposedly it was fixed in a patch.


I remember this as well (it was 50 Tiger tanks vs. 50 jeeps example that stired ghosts) but this was fixed in, I think, 1st patch for original TOAW and never was problem afterwards.

The latest (and greatest) TOAW CoW (Century of Warfare) was very very good game...


Leo "Apollo11"


The King Tiger Company Versus Jeep Army thing was caused by the original game engine (TOAW1)aggregating and comparing values. It was a bit of a nasty spat, I forget the name of the Guy who annoyed Norm with the article.

Norm solved the issue for TOAW2 (modern battles) where by weapons systems were rated for armour strength and the penetration capability of their main armament. This meant you could get M1A1 companies fending off several hundred T-34s if you cared to set it up.

I don't think it was patched into TOAW1, but rather the original 1939-55 game engine was updated with the new game engine and released as Wargame of the Year Edition. The current Century of Warfare encompassed both titles in one new title, and has the new game engine with individual ratings etc throughout as well.

I'd love to see WIR updated at the scale they suggest. People have tried to do it with TOAW with varying degrees of success, but a purpose built engine could create a wonderul game.

Regards,
IronDuke

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 104
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 7/8/2004 6:49:28 AM   
Itsjustme0771

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 1/22/2003
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		BTTT

Now that WitP is out.....

<clearing his throat>
<tapping his foot>



_____________________________

We will either find a way or make one--Hannibal 247-183 B.C.

(in reply to IronDuke_slith)
Post #: 105
RE: How many would like to see a new and update WiR - 7/8/2004 6:57:41 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
Joined: 8/12/2002
Status: offline 		Another vote for Russian Front. Would like a different visual scheme for land warfare (bigger counters with some visual info displayed on em). I want this waaaay more than the Med.

_____________________________

"Fear is a darkroom where the devil develops his negatives" Gary Busey

(in reply to Itsjustme0771)
Post #: 106
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