300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar!

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300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar!

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300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 5:38:02 AM

Ivanmoe

Posts: 21
Joined: 12/1/2002
Status: offline

I moved on to the SOPAC scenario that runs from Mar42-Feb43.

The Zuikaku is holed in up in Lae, and I've slapped it silly with raid after raid from Dauntless' and low level A20 and B26.

Now, I know that the Air Corps boys were notoriously unreliable in there damage assessments against ships, but over forty of those hits were called by the SBD.

After each raid, I go back and check the intel screen and it dutifully reports that not only have I not sunk the Zuikaku, I haven't even received any points for damage!

Not good,

Ivanmoe

Post #: 1

RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 5:47:42 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ivanmoe

I moved on to the SOPAC scenario that runs from Mar42-Feb43.

The Zuikaku is holed in up in Lae, and I've slapped it silly with raid after raid from Dauntless' and low level A20 and B26.

Now, I know that the Air Corps boys were notoriously unreliable in there damage assessments against ships, but over forty of those hits were called by the SBD.

After each raid, I go back and check the intel screen and it dutifully reports that not only have I not sunk the Zuikaku, I haven't even received any points for damage!

Not good,

Ivanmoe

No points are awarded for damage until the scenario is completely over. Also, even if the ship is sunk, it may not appear on Sunk Ship list for up to 60 days. FOW ya know.

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RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 7:11:42 AM

Ivanmoe

Posts: 21
Joined: 12/1/2002
Status: offline

Hi Stafford, :)

Why is the game awarding points for OTHER ongoing losses if it DOESN'T record losses until the scenario is OVER?

For other air and naval casualties that is?

Moe

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Post #: 3

RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 7:39:44 AM

dpstafford

Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ivanmoe

Hi Stafford, :)

Why is the game awarding points for OTHER ongoing losses if it DOESN'T record losses until the scenario is OVER?

For other air and naval casualties that is?

Moe

I'm not sure I am following you. And I admit that my answer was based mainly on countless games of UV. But wasn't your original question about points for a DAMAGED Zuikaku? I am saying that point for PARTIAL kills don't "count" until the game is over. And if the CV is sunk it might appear in the list immediately, or it might not be there for up to 60 game days.

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RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 9:39:46 AM

Radzy

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/19/2004
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dpstafford

No points are awarded for damage until the scenario is completely over. Also, even if the ship is sunk, it may not appear on Sunk Ship list for up to 60 days. FOW ya know.

Also, the ships sunk are sometimes not visible (even if they were hit by xx torpedoes and yy bombs) at once. This is our immortal FOW

. It sometimes takes some time for intel to find out, that the ship is sunk.

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RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 3:44:52 PM

Feinder

Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline

It doesn't show points for ENEMY damaged ships until the game is over, because
a. The game doesn't know if the damaged ship is just going to sink tomorrow.
b. And (more importantly) for FOW, you certainly wouldn't know -how- badly damaged the ship is at present. But if it did show VPs for damaged ships, you could concievably be able to know the amount of relative damage done to the that last carrier you bombed.

Whereas, it does indicate your own damaged ship points (to you), because it can calculate this without a problem. It's -not- giving this information to the enemy. And if Saratoga get hit had, and it indicates that "damage ships" (due to Saratoga) is 200 vps; but tomorrow she does sink, you would see the vps in the damaged column disappear (assuming you have no other damaged ships), and then indicate the points in the "sunk" column. Your opponent however, would never see anyting in his damaged ships column; and wouldn't necessarily see anything in his "sunk" column for up to 60 days. If the scenario ends and Sara is not sunk however, you would have continued to see her points in your own damaged column, and your opponent would finally see the points for her in his damaged column (at end of scenario).

Also FYI, it's -very- hard to sink a ship in port. The way you sink a ship is from Floatation Damage. System damage might reduce it to an immobile hulk, but a ship with 97 system damage and 0 floatation damage is -not- sunk. And when you bomb a port, you use bombs, not torps (PH initial attack is a special case, at least that is my understanding). Bombs do sys damage and start fires, but normally, the float damage is marginal. Fires -can- create float damage, so you do have that working for you, but...

It's an uphill battle. Your bombs aren't doing much float damage to begin with. Still there is -some-. You get several hits, and start fires (more goodness), those fires might also add float damage (but again, not to the degree of a torpedo). However, your target is dispbanded in a port. That port (depending on the size), is -VERY- good at putting out fires and repairing float damage. In my opinion, most ports are TOO good at repairing float damage, but that's for another thread. So in all likelihood, the fire damage and float damage that you're causing each turn, is quite likely being wiped out by the port each turn, while the sys damage on your target is probably very high.

-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 7/8/2004 8:50:28 AM >

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RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 5:19:00 PM

Sonny

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline

Is the ship in port (disbanded) or just docked? Do you see it on the combat animation (if it is just docked)?

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Post #: 7

RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 5:31:05 PM

Ivanmoe

Posts: 21
Joined: 12/1/2002
Status: offline

Thanks to everyone for the thought that you put into these explainations.

Actually, I had just finished playing the Coral Sea scenario when I jumped into this one. In that game THREE IJN carriers holed-up in Lae AFTER being attacked and reported as hit by land-based bombers from Port Moresby.

The game reported myriad MORE hits on those ships as well (particularly the Shokaku), but when the game ENDED, the screens indicated no damage or points awarded for hits on ANY of those ships.

So, it would appear as though there are a couple of legitimate questions to be raised here:

1) Why, if the carriers were undamaged, did they take refuge in a port within range of enemy bombers?

2) Why didn't the game register damage against the ships (given that it reported such from otherwise capable USN dive-bombers).

All of this brings back memories of UV, BTW. I purchased that game as soon as it became available. It had a lot of bugs which I dutifully reported here at the Matrix forums. Virtually all of these reports were discounted as being attributable to my lack of knowledge of the game, the SOPAC campaign, or FOW.

So, I just quit posting and gave up on the game until a new patch would be issued, patches that frequently fixed the bugs that I had reported during my brief participation in these forums.

I like the game. Evidence of this is the dozens of hours that I have spent playing it since my download last week. But, I'd like to see it tidied up a bit. :)

Ivanmoe

(in reply to Feinder)

Post #: 8

RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 5:32:43 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
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Ivanmoe,

Do you have a pre-end save that we can look at to see one of your combat executions and then the ending status of the carriers? If so, please post it here. Thanks.

Regards,

- Erik

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RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 6:46:42 PM

Ivanmoe

Posts: 21
Joined: 12/1/2002
Status: offline

Hi Erik,

Thanks for responding.

I'll upload the .SAV tonight when I get home from work.

Ivanmoe

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Post #: 10

RE: 300 hits (claimed) and still no cigar! - 7/8/2004 8:04:09 PM

The Gnome

Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

quote:

1) Why, if the carriers were undamaged, did they take refuge in a port within range of enemy bombers?

Ohh nooooo, this is the one thing about the UV AI that eventually stopped my playing. I would end up finding some size 3 or 4 port damaging shipping with airstrikes as it sailed to that port. The AI would then say, "Hey I'm damaged. I better disband in a port; what's close?". Well the port it was heading to was close, it would go there, disband and die.

Kills would get especially juicy if the AI was using that port as a staging area for combat operations (Shortland was a prime example). You could end up putting the majority of the AI shipping to the bottom of the harbor. Not much fun at all.

Edit note: Clearly I hope this type of AI death spiral is addressed in WiTP.

< Message edited by The Gnome -- 7/8/2004 1:04:51 PM >

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Post #: 11

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