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Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 6:35:37 AM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		What, pray tell, may cause a bunch of pilots to go on strike.

None of the air units in Southeast Asia have flown a mission in over a week. I ask nicely. I threaten to court-martial people. I try bribes. None of them will fly. The Japanese have even bombed airfield with figter planes on them. The pilots simply wave at the Japanese airplanes and go back to their drinking and their card games.

I am growing concerned of what might happen if this behavior was allowed to continue.

Thayne

< Message edited by Thayne -- 7/14/2004 6:13:00 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 6:38:22 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		They go on strike when you give them a mission.

Seriously, check your range settings. They may be like 1-2 hexes or something.

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(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 2
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 6:45:47 AM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I'm afraid that is not it. I have Hudsons set with a range of 10 and P-40s set with a range of 5.

They were doing just great for the first two weeks of the war. I mean . . . they couldn't hit anything, but at least they were firing projectiles in the general direction of enemy airplanes and dropping bombs in the rough proximity of enemy airbases and ports. Then, I suspected that I had not seen any activity in a couple of days. I asked some underlings to keep an eye out and, sure enough, no wheel has left the ground now for 7 days.

This is insubordination, I tell you. I do not approve of this kind of behavior. What if the pilots in other regions find out about this?

< Message edited by Thayne -- 7/14/2004 4:46:50 AM >

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 3
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 7:20:27 AM   
Platoonist


Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline 		What is their morale/fatigue situation? Mebbe those first few weeks of the war tuckered them out.

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Post #: 4
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 8:01:55 AM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Platoonist

What is their morale/fatigue situation? Mebbe those first few weeks of the war tuckered them out.



Well, I have a squadron of Blenheims with a morale of 90 and a fatigue of 0 with orders to attack enemy ground units 5 hexes away who aren't doing much of anything right now, on an airfield that requires 8 aircraft supply but provides 20.

Thayne

(Oh, and make that 8 days, now, with nary the lifting of a finger among them -- even though one enemy attack targeted a port in a hex with an airfield where 11 buffalos are parked on the runway, fueled and armed and ready for combat, with primary orders to provide bomber escort -- not that there are any bombers going anywhere to escort -- with a CAP percentage of 50, a morale of 54, and a fatigue of 3.)

(in reply to Platoonist)
Post #: 5
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 8:08:03 AM   
52nd Lowland


Posts: 244
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		Thats nearly as bad as those flippin B26 Marauders in Uncommon Valor...they must have thought it was a sleeping duty

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Post #: 6
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 8:08:32 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		The pilots need to be shot!

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Post #: 7
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 8:11:58 AM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

The pilots need to be shot!



If only I could find somebody in the area willing to do some shooting. . . .

Thayne

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 8
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 9:33:21 AM   
Arnir


Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline 		Probably not an issue at all, but...

Has anything in the base changed? Lack of supplies? Aviation support still there?

Grasping at straws.

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Post #: 9
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 9:39:44 AM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline 		Give it to Frag....he eat's ANYTHING!!!

Seems a bit disturbing to me. Haven't seen this yet in my stuff...

(in reply to Arnir)
Post #: 10
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 12:47:28 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 52nd Lowland

Thats nearly as bad as those flippin B26 Marauders in Uncommon Valor...they must have thought it was a sleeping duty


Marauders eh? I had an interesting one in UV where a squadron of Libs wouldnt fly. The second I transferred in a squadron of P-40s, off they went next turn. I thought it was something coded into the game that allows bomber crews to give HQ the finger without fear of court-marshal (Catch-22-esque, n'est pas?).

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Post #: 11
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 1:51:08 PM   
2Stepper


Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Onime No Kyo
Marauders eh? I had an interesting one in UV where a squadron of Libs wouldnt fly. The second I transferred in a squadron of P-40s, off they went next turn. I thought it was something coded into the game that allows bomber crews to give HQ the finger without fear of court-marshal (Catch-22-esque, n'est pas?).


Might be worth the effort. Take a unit of them and transfer them to a nearby base. Then next turn (assuming they continue to sit on their thumbs), transfer them back. See what happens... I agree though, this IS an odd one.

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(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 12
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 1:56:40 PM   
Montbrun


Posts: 1498
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Status: offline 		...check your escort groups - sometimes bombers won't fly without escort...

(in reply to 2Stepper)
Post #: 13
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 2:34:09 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I regret to report that, with all of this grasping at straws going on, the only thing that we have so far is a fist full of straws.

I have bombers at airbases with fighter squadrons set to escort.

I have moved squadrons to new bases. (Since I could not get them to fly, I thought a change of scenery might work. It didn't. They settled down in their new quarters and picked up their card games where they left off.)

In these 8 days, I have received two squadrons of reinforcements -- who joined the squadrons already in existence in participating in the no-fly rule.

The problem affects every squadron in Burma and India -- not just one base. No units will fight -- even fighter squadrons set to CAP whose bases are under attack. The pilots just drag their lawn chairs up on the hill and watch the Japanese make their attack runs -- then hold up score cards to tell the Jap pilot what they thought of his form and artistic ability.

I have troops in Rangoon who are cut off and fighting for their lives, and not a single pilot is willing to step up and help them out. I have a worry that if somebody doesn't help those Rangoonians out soon, they're going to defect and join the Japanese (not that I blame them).

Thayne

< Message edited by Thayne -- 7/14/2004 12:47:06 PM >

(in reply to Montbrun)
Post #: 14
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 2:48:03 PM   
barbarrossa


Posts: 359
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: Shangri-La
Status: offline 		Have you tried giving your bombers specific "ground" or "airfield" targets? Are these targets in range?

The airfields you are flying from...are they big enough to support your a/c? enough aviation support? supply situation good enough for ops?

Just a checklist, all these have been mentioned before in the thread. At least they're transferring!

I haven't run into anything like this.

< Message edited by barbarrossa -- 7/14/2004 12:48:51 PM >

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"Is it you or I that commands 9th Army, My Fuhrer?" -- Model

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 15
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 2:51:08 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Is this possibly something to do with Computer Control having been switched on at one time for the zone?

Or more obviously the planes are not at size 1 airfields?

If it is a genuine bug I believe you need to submit a save file to support@matrixgames.com for them to have a look at it. Together with a description of how to reproduce.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 7/14/2004 12:53:26 PM >

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 16
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 2:55:15 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Airfield sizes range from 1 up to 5 (with the bulk of the squadrons at size 3 airfields).

I have 7 bases with air units stationed there. Of these, 4 have more than enough aviation support points to handle the planes (3 of them are a bit light). 6 of them have enough general support points to handle the units stationed there (1 is a bit light). 7 out of 7 have more than 3 times the amount of supply available than is required. The HQ is on a hex with 73,365 supply points.

< Message edited by Thayne -- 7/14/2004 12:59:36 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 17
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 2:57:54 PM   
barbarrossa


Posts: 359
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: Shangri-La
Status: offline 		I got this idea from another thread talking about the same thing happening....perhaps those yutzes won't fly because the feel they need escorting fighters, if the the range to target is to great for the fighters to escort to the target....that might be it.........just another straw to pluck.

But then again, that doesn't explain the lack of CAP......

< Message edited by barbarrossa -- 7/14/2004 12:58:46 PM >

_____________________________

"It take a brave soldier to be a coward in the Red Army" -- Uncle Joe

"Is it you or I that commands 9th Army, My Fuhrer?" -- Model

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Post #: 18
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 3:04:04 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne

Airfield sizes range from 1 up to 5 (with the bulk of the squadrons at size 3 airfields).


OK. Well I can't explain the lack of CAP but it's possible that this may be the reason behind some offensive missions not being flown.

The rules as I understand them from the manual (apologies if this is already known):

1. Offensive missions require airfield size > 1
2. Level bombers require airfield size >= 4 for full bombload (B-17/B-24/B-29 require size 5-6-7 respectively)
3. Level bombers at airfield size 2 or 3 will only carry extended range bombload.
4. Dive/torpedo/fighter bombers only need size >= 2.

Having said all this it does sound rather like a bug ...

P.S. Aviation support is ONLY relevant with respect to repairing damaged planes, nothing else. If you're not getting heavy losses you can run bases at considerably less than the stated requirement.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 7/14/2004 1:06:59 PM >

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 19
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 3:24:29 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Recall, I reported that units were, once upon a time, flying offensive missions from those very same airfields just fine for the first two weeks of the war.

Now, I have moved all squadrons but 1 to airfields greater than size 1.

Akyab is the place where the fighters will not even fly CAP to defend their own base, and it is level 3 airfield.

< Message edited by Thayne -- 7/14/2004 1:26:17 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 20
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 3:26:05 PM   
foliveti


Posts: 371
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

[
P.S. Aviation support is ONLY relevant with respect to repairing damaged planes, nothing else. If you're not getting heavy losses you can run bases at considerably less than the stated requirement.


I thought Aviation support also affected the number of missions which could be flown from a base?

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(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 21
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 3:30:33 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: foliveti
I thought Aviation support also affected the number of missions which could be flown from a base?


You may be right, what does the manual say?

Thayne, it seems highly likely to be a bug. You need to submit a save file to support@matrixgames.com with explanation.

(in reply to foliveti)
Post #: 22
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 3:32:28 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarrossa

Have you tried giving your bombers specific "ground" or "airfield" targets? Are these targets in range?

The airfields you are flying from...are they big enough to support your a/c? enough aviation support? supply situation good enough for ops?

Just a checklist, all these have been mentioned before in the thread. At least they're transferring!

I haven't run into anything like this.



Yes, I have given them specific targets. I have also varied the targets on the off chance that bombers are not supposed to be able to attack ground units. I have set them to attack the same targets that they were successfully attacking in the first 2 weeks of the war. They ignore all of these requests.

I have set some of them to local commander's discretion. If I can't find something they want to attack -- maybe they can find something themselves.

No good.

(in reply to barbarrossa)
Post #: 23
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 3:51:53 PM   
Grouchy


Posts: 1117
Joined: 9/26/2001
From: Nuenen, Noord-Brabant, Nederland
Status: offline 		Groups of my decide to go on strike after attacking a ground target 1x. If I switch them to an AF attack they do as ordered. Switch them back to ground attacks and I get the finger again .

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Post #: 24
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 6:16:54 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		Not got WITP yet, but this reminds me of some problems I had in UV (but not for so long).

Try flying recon or naval search, only to see if your airmen report something. Or even supply or troop transport. Then you will see if the problem is that they won't do any flying at all, or they refuse to fight Japan.

To reply to another post, to launch ground air attacks requires regular recon flights or the bombers refuse to fly.

(in reply to Grouchy)
Post #: 25
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/14/2004 8:20:37 PM   
IceCreamSolider

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 5/5/2002
Status: offline 		Severe weather will ground them too - even if they have orders.

ICS

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Post #: 26
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/15/2004 6:56:47 AM   
Drongo

 

Posts: 2205
Joined: 7/12/2002
From: Melb. Oztralia
Status: offline 		Thayne,

Where are you currently at with this problem?

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Post #: 27
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/15/2004 7:19:23 AM   
CommC

 

Posts: 467
Joined: 8/3/2002
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		I'm having a similar problem with CAP not flying from a Air Combat TF. They haven't flown for several days (actually they have never flown since the TF was created). Enemy bombers keep flying over dropping bombs on the carriers with no opposition while the fighters stay on the deck. All the settings I can check, morale, pilots, supply, fuel, settings, etc seem ok.

The only explanation I can come up with is that they aren't flying due to bad weather. I thought that in UV, if an air group didn't fly due to bad weather, you got a message to that effect. I haven't seen any weather messages like that in WITP. Has anyone else? Should I expect such a message?

If it's weather, I'ld like to know how the enemy planes can fly and bomb accurately in the bad weather, but my planes won't take off.

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Post #: 28
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/15/2004 7:36:10 AM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		Funny you should ask.

I just finished another turn, trying the suggestion that I fly some recon missions to see what happens there.

Two pilots (1 Blenheim and 1 Hudson) actually took off and flew these missions.

I have no idea what this means -- other than the fact that it blows my theory that they are completely without any ounce of courage. I still think it may be difficult to fight a war without somebody willing to actually shoot something other than pictures.

Testing continues.

(in reply to Drongo)
Post #: 29
RE: Pilots on Strike - 7/15/2004 8:16:14 AM   
Drongo

 

Posts: 2205
Joined: 7/12/2002
From: Melb. Oztralia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CommC

I'm having a similar problem with CAP not flying from a Air Combat TF. They haven't flown for several days (actually they have never flown since the TF was created). Enemy bombers keep flying over dropping bombs on the carriers with no opposition while the fighters stay on the deck. All the settings I can check, morale, pilots, supply, fuel, settings, etc seem ok.

The only explanation I can come up with is that they aren't flying due to bad weather. I thought that in UV, if an air group didn't fly due to bad weather, you got a message to that effect. I haven't seen any weather messages like that in WITP. Has anyone else? Should I expect such a message?

If it's weather, I'ld like to know how the enemy planes can fly and bomb accurately in the bad weather, but my planes won't take off.


Since the TF being attacked by enemy a/c is also where your CAP is based, weather should have nothing to do with it.

Question - are your CV a/c capacities being exceeded by more than 10% (each)?

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drink more beer.

(in reply to CommC)
Post #: 30
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