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Cavebusting?? - 1/11/2002 8:48:00 PM   
Omegaunit

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		OH MY GOD Is there a way to bust these caves? Wild bill what do I do? Man I have tried everything, offshore batterys, appoaching in smoke, engineers... I lost a whole company of engineers and it didnt even suppress the cave. how did they do it in real life?
How do I do it in the game WATCHTOWER IS AWESOME!!

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Post #: 1
- 1/11/2002 9:34:00 PM   
Alexandra


Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		Here's what I do for caves: Smoke - and Bypass! Ignore 'em, move past 'em. They can't move after all. If I really wanna kill a cave, I detail a Sherman to stand off and fire at it till I get a kill, but, for the most part, I just move on past. Alex

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(in reply to Omegaunit)
Post #: 2
- 1/11/2002 9:57:00 PM   
Jeff_Ewing

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/16/2001
From: Staten Island, NY, wargame captial of the US
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Omegaunit:
OH MY GOD Is there a way to bust these caves?
There's an entire training scenario, which should be #9 on your scenario list. However, I favor Alexandra's method, smoke 'em and bypass. I'm not sure how realistic this is: I'd hate to have a cave full of p.o.'d IJA in my rear as I took an objective. But until CL it's my preferred method. Can anyone comment on the usefulness, against a human opponent, of bailing the crew of a cave to harass the enemy's rear? I believe they'd be armed with "Miscellaneous Small Arms" rather than the formidable array of weapons in the Japanese "Cave" units. Jeff

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Post #: 3
- 1/11/2002 10:20:00 PM   
mao

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		Get the cavebusting trainer - but the best thing is to bypass the caves, win the battle and then come back later. Smoke is your friend. If you are lucky enough to have a flamethrower tank and can get it close to the cave without damage - then toast those Japs

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Post #: 4
- 1/11/2002 11:05:00 PM   
Omegaunit

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 12/31/2001
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		My Scenario #9 is for bunker busting
I was wondering if there was a speficic strategy for caves. But I guess the same old ones work for caves as well as bunkers

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Post #: 5
- 1/12/2002 6:42:00 AM   
CaptainBrian

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 12/27/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		During WWII the USMC developed the "Corkscrew and Blowtorch" Technique. This entailed laying smoke at the cave entrance. Once smoke was built up, a bazooka, AT gun or tank main gun would fire into the mouth of the cave, suppressing the defenders. The coup de grace was delivered by a flamethrower, either man-packed or tank-mounted. I know that WP bazooka rounds were a favorite to fire into caves. Their incendiary effects, combined with choking chemical smoke made for a nasty combo.

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CaptainBrian

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Post #: 6
- 1/12/2002 7:27:00 AM   
Easy8

 

Posts: 324
Joined: 6/10/2001
From: Austin, Tx
Status: offline 		I agree, bypass if possible, but when you have to knock 'em out, this is what I do. Approach slowly with recon infantry, followed by engineers and tanks. Hopefully you will spot the cave entrance before it opens fire on your units Once spotted, use inf smoke grenade, direct fire arty and/or tank guns to lay smoke on the approach routes. Have your FO call in indirect smoke to cover the entrance.Use direct fire from covering units to supress. Slowly move your enginners to the flanks. (If playing Wild Bill's Pacific Theater scenarios or campaigns, watch out for other caves/fortifications covering the flanks with interlocking fields of fire) Get behind the caves and assault them. Usually requiress MANY attempts, but you will eventually kill it. Works well with any fortification units. I also like to infilitrate special forces behind suspected fixed fortifications and approach from the rear. The key is to neutralize their strengths (High armor value and firepower) and exploit their weaknesses (limited fields of fire and no manueverability) to your advantage.

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Post #: 7
- 1/12/2002 7:30:00 AM   
bigtroutz


Posts: 2417
Joined: 4/22/2001
From: Montana, USA
Status: offline 		sounds like you are trying to take down the cave from the front....big mistake in my opinion. if the cave rally's with you standing there scratching your *** , you are toast. here is my technique:
1) 81mm mortar the cave/bunker (this helps to find mines) and use any other units you have to add supression w/o getting waxed
2) move engineer or other unit with sachel charges/FT ability to the closest non-targetable hex to the cave front to get the highest possible assault probability (sux to get fired on from adjacent hex while moving). pop smoke in front so the other units can move by in safety.
3) assault, rally, re-assault. try try again moving more units if you want to. units with a supression of under 10 will assault, over will fire at it normally only, usually. leave at least one unit there to try again next turn, its probability of success goes way up.
4) OR yes, bypass it if you dont want its victory points. i generally am greedy and take the vp's, lol

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Post #: 8
- 1/15/2002 9:00:00 PM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Try a heavy AT gun set up 10 to 15 hexes away (far enough away to not be spotted) and just keep shooting until the cave is destroyed. The Marines did not destroy a lot of caves they just sealed them up and left them. Since this is not an option in the game the AT method works best, if you can not leave them alone and bypass them.

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Post #: 9
- 1/15/2002 10:02:00 PM   
lnp4668

 

Posts: 517
Joined: 11/10/2000
From: Arlington, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by pbear:

The Marines did not destroy a lot of caves they just sealed them up and left them. Since this is not an option in the game the AT method works best, if you can not leave them alone and bypass them.
That is what the US is doing now in Afghanistan

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Post #: 10
- 1/16/2002 7:49:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Good suggestions from everyone, Omegaunit! Let's see if I can help. 1. Bypass if possible. They are not leaving that cave so don't worry about them attacking you from the rear. I wish that were in the game! 2. If you have to take them out, "Corkscrew and Blowtorch" is good. Now on Guadalcanal that method was not perfected. In fact, the Marines did not have flamethrowers on Guadalcanal! Did you know that? But the Japanese did. So use the follwoing. 1. Suppressing fire of all kinds, artillery, small arms, bricks, etc. 2. Use smoke, especially your infantry..lots of smoke! 3. Use the fire and move tactic. One unit fires, the other moves. Then the reverse. 4. Try to get forward either a tank, SP gun or some engineers, satchel charges. 5. Take your time. Rushing here will get you killed. 6. Remember, keeping them suppressed continues to weaken them. An accumulation of enough hits will take them out eventually. Strongpoints are your worst nightmare if you are attacking and cannot avoid them. But they can be beaten! Semper Fi! Wild Bill

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Post #: 11
- 1/17/2002 11:16:00 AM   
BruceAZ


Posts: 608
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Omegaunit:
[QB] OH MY GOD Is there a way to bust these caves? I agree with Alex, by-pass them if you can. That's the good news. The bad news is they get a lot tougher as you get into latter battles. Good luck! You are going to need it. Bruce
Semper Fi

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Post #: 12
- 1/17/2002 9:58:00 PM   
mao

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		The scenario designers of MC-W are really MEAN - they put caves at 30 height where my smoke is not always blocking the los - MEAN MEAN MEAN

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Post #: 13
- 1/18/2002 11:21:00 AM   
Wild Bill

 

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline 		Hey, Mao! I'm glad to see that you changed desert sand for beach sand! Welcome to the Pacific. That is good. You've been in North Africa far too long. From no water to too much water. I told those those sons of Nippon to choose hills on lower levels but you know how they are Good hunting with that Springfield ...WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Omegaunit)
Post #: 14
- 1/18/2002 4:49:00 PM   
mao

 

Posts: 167
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Michigan, USA
Status: offline 		I'm playing alternate scenarios of NA, LV and -W; it's nice to get away from the long range tank battles of NA...

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Post #: 15
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