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Out of fuel PT boat attack

 
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Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 6:14:32 PM   
Og

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 6/3/2004
Status: offline 		In my current email game I just send my PT boats all spread out on the coast of japan. The aircraft won't attack them because they are too small but they still mannage to close to 2000 yards at night and fire their torps (even though they have been out of fuel for weeks).

yours
Og
Post #: 1
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 6:28:07 PM   
mavraam


Posts: 436
Joined: 5/11/2004
Status: offline 		In the tutorial, after reading a post on the PT boats, I decided to make some 'fleets' of surface raiders, with 25 PT boats in each and send them after transports. I had such good luck with them, I wondered what the hell I needed subs for! But I decided this was an exploit, especially when I realized that after they were out of fuel, I could still move them 1 hex every turn, so I stopped using them.

It seems there need to be some tweaking with these things.

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RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 6:40:32 PM   
Deathifier

 

Posts: 362
Joined: 6/17/2002
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Bombers/fighters set to attack at 100ft should chew them up, same applies for AG's.

Particularly effective if whatever is used has cannons on them.

- Deathifier

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Post #: 3
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 6:44:11 PM   
Peever


Posts: 196
Joined: 3/17/2002
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		Ships never quite run out of fuel in WitP. They will always be able to move at least one hex a turn. The manual says this is so you don't have to send ships out to tow them in. Sending them out to the Japan in that fashion is an exploit.

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Post #: 4
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 6:45:46 PM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		I was rescueing my PT boats from the PI. I sent them south towards Espiritu Santu. Of course they ran out of fuel quickly but are still heading for the island. On the way, they encountered a Japanese Transport convoy and blew the heck out of it. I think it was heading towards Kavieng or Rabaul. Sunk three transports and damaged another. Apparently the Torps on the PT boats have no problems.

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Post #: 5
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 6:46:51 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathifier

Bombers/fighters set to attack at 100ft should chew them up, same applies for AG's.

Particularly effective if whatever is used has cannons on them.

- Deathifier


True, a good fighter can maul some PTs but the problem with PTs is the lack of real warships doing enough damage to them. In my PBEM I had 5 PTs move up the PI coast and attempt to mess with my landing at Lingayan. I had a surface fleet of 1 CA, 2 CLs and I think 4-5 DDs that intercepted them. In the battle I sunk only 3 of the PTs allowing the others to escape.. In my opinion that is not realistic.. The 'real' warships would have hammered the PTs into nothing - especially since a single hit from the cruiser's main guns would all but destroy a PT... Even if the PTs ran, the DDs could give a could chase (so could some cruisers depending on class) and probably kill or cripple a few more.. A fleet of 25 PTs is nearly invincable, as an equal amount of warships will at best kill 6 or so per combat, whereas if the PTs get close enough (or lucky enough) can put a whooping on the entire enemy TF...

Xargun

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Post #: 6
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 9:19:55 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Xargon,

You mean that a 5" shell, that weighs 80 lbs, with 15 lbs of High Explosive (that's a lot of fire-crackers!) would blow apart a boat made of plywood in 1 shot?!

[/sarcasm]

I think the problem is that our over-zealous crews keep firing at every scrap of driftwood with a survivor clinging to it, instead of finding another target.

-F-

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Post #: 7
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 9:26:57 PM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		2 solutions: 1: Get rid of the 1 hex rule. If a ship runs out of fuel then it will need to be "towed" back (get a ship with fuel out to it to refuel it)
2: PT boats out of fuel cannot attack
and perhaps a house rule to limit the size of PT boat TFs 15 boats sound fine.

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Post #: 8
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 10:11:41 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

2 solutions: 1: Get rid of the 1 hex rule. If a ship runs out of fuel then it will need to be "towed" back (get a ship with fuel out to it to refuel it)
2: PT boats out of fuel cannot attack
and perhaps a house rule to limit the size of PT boat TFs 15 boats sound fine.


A better rule would be either:
1 Don't let PT boats out of shallow water hexes. 60 miles from land is enough for unitis that were designed t odefend bases.

or

2 If in a non-coastal hex, don't use the special code that lets PT combat start at very close range. They should be spotted at distance like normal ships and let the chips fall where they may.

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Post #: 9
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 10:13:45 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

2 solutions: 1: Get rid of the 1 hex rule. If a ship runs out of fuel then it will need to be "towed" back (get a ship with fuel out to it to refuel it)
2: PT boats out of fuel cannot attack
and perhaps a house rule to limit the size of PT boat TFs 15 boats sound fine.


While more 'historical' your first solution was axed a long time ago for practical reasons (game wise) It would create a pain in the butt situation for players not to mention a swatch of new coding.

the run out of fuel/no attack suggestion is good.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 7/20/2004 8:14:08 PM >

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RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 10:20:26 PM   
Bradley7735


Posts: 2073
Joined: 7/12/2004
Status: offline 		I think if any ship runs out of fuel, it's defensive and offensive abilities should go to zero. I do like that they move one hex per phaze, though (keeps the headaches down).

That way, if a player wanted to run amok far from a fuel source with a death star of CV's, they'd be sitting ducks if they actually ran out of fuel. As it is now, I don't really fear running out of fuel, unless I need to get somewhere fast.

that's more of my 2 cents.

bc

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Post #: 11
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 10:24:05 PM   
UncleBuck

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		I think Defensive fire should stay the same but Offensive fire, should be reduced or if the game calculates combat using the maneuver and speed of the ships, that that speed be 2 Kts. They would be sitting ducks, but sitting ducks with guns. A battleship is still very dangerous even if it is sitting still.

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Post #: 12
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 11:31:16 PM   
Guderon

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleBuck

I think Defensive fire should stay the same but Offensive fire, should be reduced or if the game calculates combat using the maneuver and speed of the ships, that that speed be 2 Kts. They would be sitting ducks, but sitting ducks with guns. A battleship is still very dangerous even if it is sitting still.


Perhaps, but any ship (even a heavily armed/armored BB) would quickly be pounded into rubble if it couldn't maneuver. Once the enemy ships had the correct fire solutions, it would be over very quickly. Not to mention how deadly any torpedo attacks would become...

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Post #: 13
RE: Out of fuel PT boat attack - 7/20/2004 11:38:07 PM   
MadDawg

 

Posts: 374
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

the run out of fuel/no attack suggestion is good.



Its a good start, but I think that it only solves part of the problem though as they can be used in task forces with larger ships from which they can refuel. Maybe if they couldnt refuel this way also? Then people have a problem transporting them though.

In reality a PT task force attacking a group of enemy warships would have to be very lucky to get a hit in, but at the moment it seems quite easy. I think that this points to something being a little off in the combat engine with regards to PT boats (maybe they are too hard to hit or are too accurate with their torps).

Dawg

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Post #: 14
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