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Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 6:36:39 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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Hey guys:

Just wanted to share a recent test game I was playing while tweaking the AI (modifying the computer's traditional loyalties i.e. I put a crazed dictator in charge of Russia) so when I started the game as I quietly invaded a few minors, Russia DOW'd me which forced me to pull back toward Berlin to defend! After dispatching a garrison in Warsaw, Alexander himself crawled (slithered rather) toward Berlin.

Snapshot of my situation before this battle...
Apologize for the blurred vision but again this had to be shrunk and converted to a jpg!
Yellow outlined area notes that combat is to be fought in this area.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

Post #: 1

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 6:42:46 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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Going into combat...

Note that I've got the numbers (They tried to forage in February on their way to Berlin ... bad idea)!
Note my guard commitment button at the bottom left (one asterisk for level 1, only France and Russia could do a level 2 shift).
Note that I have a cavalry bonus!

I pick echelon and he picks defend!
I woll 5 and he rolls 6, actually about a draw

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 2

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 6:50:19 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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Okay now to round 2 (Round sayes 3 but my images are after round)

I've decided to commit my guards ... I lose one factor (that's ok). Glad I committed the guards because I rolled a damn 2 BUT with my committed guards, the morale impact was enough to break the Russian Peacocks!

My pusuit was lackluster but did knock off a few more guys...

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 3

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 6:55:41 AM

Marshall Ellis

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Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
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Situation after battle...

Russian scum retreats back toward the motherland! Now I must decide what to do ???

Pursue them toward Moscow and force them to sue for peace? (I know, I know, the French are in Baden and Wurtemburg so I must be careful).

Anybody have any advice?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)

Post #: 4

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 10:14:13 AM

Forward_March

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It's hard saying what to do when playing an unknown (either a human, or an AI). If I were playing a human, I'd sound out France, then consider some punitive action like taking a province from him.
...but, if you wanna play like a Hohenzollern would be honor-bound to do, then eastward you must march! Vorwarts, meine kinder!!!

My apologies to those who actually speak German

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Post #: 5

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 4:29:35 PM

Wellington12347

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I would seek a conditional or informal peace with Russia to face France but I guess it depends on how the AI of the respective countries is set up.

Where's the rest of the Russian Army?

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 4:56:03 PM

ktotwf

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Very very cool. I hope the French aren't commanded by Napoleon. You might be in trouble....

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 5:09:15 PM

ardilla

Posts: 399
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From: Castellon, Spain
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I almost agree with Welly

It depends of where are the rest of the RU troops and what are the FR forces and who is in command of them.

It could be nice to divide the army, there are not too many left in the RU stack, I guess less than 16 I and maybe 1 Cav...so I will pursuit them with 30 I and at least 2 of CAV to gain the cav superiority against them in the next combat and move the rest towards Berlin to protect your capital, just in case the FR can move over it.

Maybe you can pick up some more troops from Berlin to join your army.

BTW, how is haddle the losses, I mean, you pick where to take them of from after the battle or is done automaticaly, kind of proportional from all your corps?

If you decide to split your stack is a good time to reorganize the corps, so you can save some money in supply them and leave the guard in Berlin.

I think it is the best to split, you dont need more to attack the RU if there is not more russians around from what I see.

Good luck!!!

P.S I want to download it!!!

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra Espa�a!!!

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 7:11:22 PM

Roads

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From: massachusetts
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Yeah, if you can fight that stack again (without it beign reinforced) you definitely want to get the PP.

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/22/2004 7:33:08 PM

ardilla

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From: Castellon, Spain
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Of course, and I dont see any other russian armies around.
Those will be an easy VPs for you!

With 2 full corps of INF and one of CAV you can kick him back!!

Even if you are very unlucky and lose you will make him lot of losses being almost double troops than him!

But beware of the FR AI...can give you a surprise in Berlin or at least getting inside Prussia!!!

Good luck Sir!

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Santiago y cierra Espa�a!!!

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Post #: 10

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 12:54:27 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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Hello all:

One point I forgot to mention is "casualty selection". This is done by simply selecting a unit at which point the available troop types will be popped up as buttons (Notice last image in the lower left). The lowest value troop possible will be auto enabled so I can by default simply click a unit and if inf and cav are available, inf will autoselect. If for some odd reason, I wish to take cavalry over infantry then I click the cav button at the bottom (haven't seen the situation pop up yet). Clicking the corps a second time will take one of the appropriate factors out of the corps. Battle will not proceed until all of my "must eliminate factors" are gone!

Hope this helps...

Thank you

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Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

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Post #: 11

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 1:32:21 AM

yammahoper

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Hmm, first, it sounds like you missed an important rule in original EiA game. After loosing a battle, if any casualties are suffered, one must be cav if they are present (representing cav holding the rear of the retreat). This results in a steady drain on cav in the game, which is very costly. I hope this rule is there but you just forgot to mention it because you won the battle.

Early in the game and Russia declares war on my poor Prussia? Diplomacy with the French and convince him now is the time to seize central Europe as his own and beat the snot out of the Austrian.

Regardless, you must spank the Russian again. He came weak and needs to be beat down, even capture his leader, which will help you gain a conditional. If the French move in and first move to seize your capital, well, a victory over the russian in battle and war will soften the impact of your surrender to the french. If the french declare war, sue for peace after he takes your capital. If he offers a conditional, take it, and you loose to the french, gain an enforced peace, beat the russian and do not loose a troop, leaving Prussia in great shape for major moves over the next year in minors and perhaps against a weakend Austria after France is done with him (a Prussian/Turkish prong is so fun to watch).

yamma

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...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 5:20:58 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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yammahoper@yahoo.com:

Nope, didn't miss it. The computer takes the cav casualty automatically (if available). It does this before prompting you to remove your casualties much like the guard commitment and the computer does this because it is not an option!

We also implemented the "2.0 morale loss" rule as it deals with militia casualties.

Thank you

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

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Post #: 13

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 6:59:07 AM

donkuchi19

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I was just wondering if you don't have a cav factor to lose, do you lose 3 inf factors in pursuit instead of 1 cav?

That is how it is in the original rules. (I also think it becomes 6 Militia if inf are not avail.)

< Message edited by donkuchi -- 7/23/2004 12:03:50 AM >

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 7:04:55 AM

Madcombinepilot

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From: Saskatoon, Canada
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*DROOL*

*SLURP*

Teasers like this make me want to play!!

Game looks great thus far, and I appreciate the attention to detail while staying true to EIA.

In you example.. where the heck is your Austrian buddy?

(in reply to donkuchi19)

Post #: 15

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 7:09:53 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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Yes indeed!

Pursuit casualties are as in EiA 1cav = 3inf = 6mil

Thank you

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Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

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Post #: 16

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 1:22:53 PM

Camile Desmoulins

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From: Madrid, Spain
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We play with a little home rule too: 1 Cav=1 Gd. Sometimes it�s very useful

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 1:29:18 PM

Camile Desmoulins

Posts: 115
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From: Madrid, Spain
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I suggest you: Quick alliance with Austria (You have it yet, I'm sure), and Great Britain. Rejoin your army at Kustrin. And pray everithing you know. The game has 132 months, don�t forget it...

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"Scis vincere, nescis uti victoria" (Maharbal)

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/23/2004 6:45:55 PM

shanebosky

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Suggestion for a future version:

With regard to casualties, I always thought it would be cool to have a random percentage from each battle (and siege--the unfortunate Mr Mack & company comes to mind) become prisoners of war. Now with the comp in control of mechanics this would be easy to track. It would be realistic--uh oh, I said it, and it would add an extra element of depth with strategic and diplomatic possibilities. Also, corps differences (force superiority, cav superiority), national tendencies (does the Turk take many prisoners?), and of course chit picks would all influence what percentage of casualties are actually taken as POWs.

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Post #: 19

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/24/2004 1:02:59 PM

ffak

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From: Paris, France
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

.....I committed the guards because I rolled a damn 2 ...

I never play the boardgame and I don't know the rules and how to play this game but I've got a silly question:

Is there somme die roll in this game? (real one or computer one)

thanks :)

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http://campaigns-france.org

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/24/2004 4:12:28 PM

YohanTM2

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ffak,

Yes there are die rolls after both sides pick a chit that reflects how they will fight that battle. Examples are assault and outflank for the attacker and defend and outflank for the defender. The chits for both sides are revealed and the battle is fought on a certain chart. The die roll results in a % loss of troops and a loss of morale that has the potential to break your army.

Yohan

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Post #: 21

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/25/2004 4:26:23 AM

Titi

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From: Montr�al
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One more question regarding casualties selection :

If a minor country corp is present, can you take all casualties from it or must you respect the proportion between minor/total forces available?

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/25/2004 4:47:37 AM

Forward_March

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Ack! I always hated it when my opponent would let his minors, or only militia, suffer all of the losses. Hopefully this won't be possible. I'm much more in favor of it being a percentage of each arm/nation present.

P.S. What are the icons over the cities that look like beer steins with a square in the upper left hand corner?

< Message edited by Forward_March -- 7/25/2004 12:49:01 PM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/25/2004 11:04:43 PM

yammahoper

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Well, all casulaties cannot come from a minor nation corp (losses are equal by percentage) and militia cannot be used to suffer any casulties after 2.0 points of morale are lost (i.e. the "2.0 morale rule").

Casualty losses with navies apply the same rule. If the Russian has a fleet with 20 ships and the Swedish fleet with 19 and then loses 7 ships in battle, he would loose 4 russian ships and three swedish ships.

EiA does have some limitations in the casualties area. For example, you cannot duplicate the Battle of Trafalger as the attack table does not allow or provide for an enemy fleet to be wiped out. Likewise, it could be possible only the Russian lost ships and the Swede none, but there is no way to implement that sort of event.

yamma

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...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/26/2004 4:41:28 AM

Titi

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From: Montr�al
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Thanks for the reminder Yamma but i knew the boardgame rule but i'm just seeking an answer from the marshall about the computer rule. In his answer he just speak of selecting casualties from any unit. I just want to be sure that there is dome restriction about minor unit.

One more point about this subject : You can take all your loses in one of your national corp while leaving other national corps intact . For example it is common for the russian to take loss in one of the high number while leaving the first one at full strengh. How can you justify it appart from an easy to play rule for the boardgame while restricting that same use about a minor force.
Isnt the computer game a good occasion to change this use aka using a percentage loss rule for all infantry corps in a battle?

One last point : when you use percentage loss rule, do you reset the counter each round or do you keep it for each day of battle?

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RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 7/26/2004 11:34:25 AM

ardilla

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It is a good question for Marshall, but I guess it has been taken into cosideration, hope!

About the Russian way of getting all his losses from a high numbered corp, it is not a big deal, since you can re-structure your army/fleet after each combat, so it can be proportional to all corps, but you can always take away one corp and spread it all over the rest to cover the losses and saving money from feeding that corp next turn.

And in my boardgame, we take the casualties proportional losses at the end of the battle, not every round, too much work and maybe too difficult to do it right, I mean if you have a proportion of 5:1 russians with swedish, it is difficult to lose more than 5 factors in a tipical battle, in one round of combat, but at the end of the 3 rounds, maybe you have lost 8-10 points so it works better at the end the percentage losses.

About the question you rise about lossing from each corp with percentage, it could be nice and more realistic, IMO, but of course, more complicated to play, I understand that if you do this you will not be able to change factors from one corp to another, think that I found too easy and not logical.

More complicated, not to calculate the % losses from each corp present, but more complicated because if you can not transfer points from one corp to another you may have after a while all your corps almost empty after a couple of years of war.

But, it could be interesting for the future to implement this as an option and to add experience to the corps or higher morale as experience for combat.

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Post #: 26

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 8/8/2004 1:09:12 AM

pfnognoff

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Hi guys,

I was away on my summer hollidays, I missed this thread, so I'm a bit late with my comments... It was a good holliday though...

In this situation I would as Prussia turn to Napoleon, seeking alliance, then if he agrees continue eastward, trash Russia, swing down a kick Austrian but on the way back home with a little help from Ottoman... I would probably end up being backstabbed by France, but this kind of oppening move from Russia just begs to be tought a lesson... Also it would be nice to observe the Brittain player loosing hair and bitting nails as his potential allies trash themselves... Bad Russian waging war on his buffer zone!!!

Marshall, maybe you can tell your "mad Russian" AI to pick his enemies more carfully and to be looking for them more to the south (Ottoman).

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Post #: 27

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 8/8/2004 3:31:46 AM

Marshall Ellis

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From: Dallas
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This is part of a rare strategy in the AI scripts that I call the "Russian backstab". It is, as I see it, a complete strategic farce for the Russian and invites nothing less than French victory. I've erase the game so I don't have the follow up images BUT Turkey soon after easily invaded Russia!

Thank you

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games

(in reply to pfnognoff)

Post #: 28

RE: Sharing a Prussian AAR ... - 8/8/2004 6:12:34 PM

pfnognoff

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"Russian backstab" is a valid thing to have in your Russian AI, because sooner or later in order to win, Russia will probably need to attack either Prussia or Austria. Just make sure to do that later in the game, preferably after the allies defend themselves against France succesfully... I guess you triggered this "backstab" artifically and AI knows better