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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Question about production

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Question about production - 7/26/2004 5:30:58 AM

vontiger

Posts: 222
Joined: 6/1/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
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Ok I understand the way HI works. But the one thing I am still a little cloudy on is moving supply/resources around.

With resources in China and Malaya is there extra to go around??

What to do I move to mainland Japan, oil/resources or supply/fuel... or both.

Are there any areas in Japan I can dump it and it will be transported around by rail??

Can I get oil/resources to move from malay to through china and then a small hope to the mainland if I take a Chinese city or 2??

Thanks

Post #: 1

RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 5:45:39 AM

mogami

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From: You can't get here from there
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Hi, You need to move resource/oil to bases that have heavy industry. The production system requires them both. Bases that are short either will look at other bases connected by rail/road and if there is a surplus there it will move where needed. Excess in China should move to one of the coastal bases. (excess moves from non port hexes to port hexes.) In the Home Islands excess will even move across water without requiring shipping. Osaka is the main Japanese supply base so unloading there should be enough (all the other Home Island industry will draw excess from Osaka)

You should not have to move supply/fuel back to Japan but you may need to move it to near by bases as needed. (Supply produced by Saigon is used in Borneo and Malaya with any further supply requirments coming from Home Islands. ) Generally I use certain bases as supply hubs that recieve supply from Home Islands and then distribute it from these where needed. At start these are Palau-Truk-Kwajalean. The Indo China bases produce their own supply as does Hong Kong after it's capture. Expand the heavy industry at Saigon and Bangkok and you save a lot of transport (they are much closer to resource/oil then are Home Island bases.) The main draw back to this is there is no production other then supply/fuel but I think the heavy industry points still are available for use in production by factories in Home Islands with out requiring further transport.

It takes a few months to get regular resource/oil shipment to Japan. This is impacted by the amount of damage the centers take when captured. You might actually have to send supply from Japan in order to repair some of these centers. (Or you might come out way ahead over history by capturing them undamaged and be getting 1943 outputs in 1942)

< Message edited by Mogami -- 7/25/2004 10:48:08 PM >

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RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 6:03:22 AM

vontiger

Posts: 222
Joined: 6/1/2004
From: Brisbane, Australia
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Thanks Mogami that answers alot more questions.

1 more question what happens when u run out of HI??

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Post #: 3

RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 6:29:44 AM

mogami

Posts: 12789
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From: You can't get here from there
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Hi, If you ever run out of Heavy Industry then you are almost ready to begin a new game.

Don't expect Japan to run her production at 100 % Capacity. Instead expect to run it in spurts. (sometimes 75 % sometimes 50 % depending on arrivals of resource/oil) If you can maintain above 50 percent of your total capacity into late 1944 early 1945 you are a superb manager (or the enemy is being clobbered).

The bad news here is you will never be actually producing all that you ae capable of. To maximize production output you need to look for all the short cuts like sending resource/oil to places like Saigon-Bangkok-Hong Kong where the distances for transport are much shorter then all the way back to Oska. Expand these facilities even if it means other heavy industry in Home Islands will be idle for lack of material. This being said don't move too much resource/oil to those bases either. (If it could be moved and used back home before being required there then it is not efficent) You want to strive for "just in time" arrivals of resource/oil in forward areas while excess is stockpiled in Home Islands.

As you expand these forward bases they will require more but they reduce the need to ship to Japan in a proportianal amount. (If you require 1000 Heavy Industry to produce enough suppply-fuel-aircraft-guns etc) when you expand the closer bases by 100 you make them more effective as they are likely to be 100 % operational. (I can't see any reason for Saigon and Bangkok not to be always operating durig the period the allies have no aircraft capable of reaching them) The Home Islands on the other hand will have periods where materials are not on hand. (this will be depentant on several majors factors)

1. Amount of expansion of Home Island industry.
2. Time required to capture resource/oil centers
3. condition apon capture of resource/oil centers
4. Duration of period enemy air can reach either the centers or the transports needed to move material.
5 availabilty of transports of proper type. (It's not enough to have 100 AK in Osaka you have to insure the ships move to resource/oil load it and move where needed)

You can see it will be much easier to run Saigon at full production compared to Koyto. THe important consideration from my point of view is to first insure Saigon is running then it is to move material in the form of resource/oil to Osaka and then have to move supply/fuel to Saigon. Saigon starts with 60 heavy industry. In 2 months it can be 120. So in 2 months I can double my supply/fuel production there (reducing shippng required to achive the 60 heavy industry out put when compared to running the same 60 heavy industry located at home. (In effect I've moved 60 heavy industry from Home Islands to Saigon rather then expanded my total Heavy Industry )

My advise then is to expand heavy industry close to resource/oil and instead of expanding heavy industry in Japan expand the aircraft/arms/vehicle/shipyards.

Don't lose sleep over idle Japaness capacity. (It's easy to expand capacity well beyond what you could ever operate) On the plus side here is the fact that the Allies will need to damage/destroy a fair portion before they ever impact your actual output. (If you are runnin a steady 75 % then you can have 25 % of your total damaged/destroyed before it effects your actual production.

Ask me for the time and I tell you how to build a watch

< Message edited by Mogami -- 7/25/2004 11:30:25 PM >

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RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 8:38:08 AM

esteban

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Joined: 7/21/2004
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Japan starts the game with a pretty huge surplus of heavy industry. They start with over 13000 heavy industry points in their control, and by my calculations, they only need about 8000 heavy industry per day to run their existing stock of shipyards, armament factories, vehicle factories, aircraft factories and engine factories flat out.

However, the Japanese armaments industry is woefully underdeveloped. They produce something like 5-6 times as many manpower points than they can equip. So reserving a healthy chunk of that manpower for expansion of industry, they probably need to at least triple or quadruple their armaments production.

Additionally, the Japanese naval shipyards start the game trying to produce more warships than they can make. These yards need to be expanded by at least 10% to cover the starting deficit, much less anything that is needed later in the war. Although there are not a lot of Japanese armored units, the Japanese vehicle industry needs to be expanded as well. It looks like by a factor of at least 50% to me, but that is a guesstimate at this time. A lot of Japanese division units have integral armored or reconnaisance units in them, that use tanks and other vehicles, but it is tough for me to see what the full ToE is for these divisions, so I can't calculate how much is needed to build them all out fully. All I can say so far is that the starting Japanese vehicle industry is significantly undersized.

So, the Japanese war machine needs a lot of investment at the start. You can do this, but the expansion places your starting oil and resource stockpiles more quickly. So make sure to grab those lightly defended resource and oil targets in the NEI (Sorong, Amboina, Kendari, Borneo) and Northern Malaya/PI ASAP!!

< Message edited by esteban -- 7/26/2004 6:34:35 AM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 8:51:13 AM

mogami

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Hi, Just so we don't confuse anybody. Resource and oil are only required by heavy industry. The main output of these are heavy industry points that run all the actual production factories. (aircraft arms vehicle) a side effect of heavy industry producing heavy industry points is supply and fuel points. Unless you can feed the heavy industry expanding the factories to produce equipment is pointless.

I'm not sure what the final resource/oil requirments to run a heavy industry point is but multiply your total heavy industry by those resource/oil requiments to find your actual per day needs. I think it is quite easy for Japan to expand factories past what she can provide heavy industry for dispite her being able to build excess heavy industry. (by this I mean even having enough heavy industry to provide points for producton will fail to achive 100 percent because she is unable to provide resource/oil to all that heavy industry every day.

This is the main area for study and planning. I cannot post numbers because every game will be different. It depends on conditions that cannot be predicted. I can say if Palembang suffers major damage then Japan will be in major trouble and if it is captured 100 percent intact that player will be well ahead of history. The Japanese required till mid 1943 to get the SRA production to 70 % of it's prewar output. Japanese players cannot plan any expansion before they know what they are going to have to work with. Take the SRA as soon as possible. Decide then what Japan can provide and with this plan your post SRA operations.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 7/26/2004 1:50:09 AM >

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RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 12:34:47 PM

SiTheSly

Posts: 94
Joined: 7/25/2004
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Thanks for those posts they will be really helpful when I play Japan next after I finish having a go with the allies. Up to June 43 and might be able to finish off Japan in a years time.

One quick question, which is more important to Japan oil or resources? Having a look around the map it seems that it would be oil.

Once again thanks for the excellent posts.

< Message edited by SiTheSly -- 7/26/2004 10:39:15 AM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Question about production - 7/26/2004 5:04:30 PM

mogami

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Hi, They are equaly important as it requires both of them to operate heavy industry. However Japan is much more limited by the number of tankers on hand compared to the number of AK.

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Post #: 8

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