Some v7 prices

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Some v7 prices

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Some v7 prices - 1/22/2002 3:10:00 AM

asgrrr

Posts: 529
Joined: 9/18/2001
From: Iceland
Status: offline

This is not an issue that I normally find enjoyable to debate, but... Anti tank guns and machineguns seem considerably overpriced now. Compare the PAK40 to armored vehicles with similar armament. The gun costs 74, only 13% less than a TANK mounting the same gun! (Pz4F2, 85). And considerably more expensive than the same gun (actually even a slightly superior version) on a self propelled chassis!!!? (Marder3m, 43). MMG MG42 costs 39, close to double that of a regular rifle squad (23), and the same as an 8 wheel armored car, mounting a howitzer and a machinegun! (Sdkfz 234/3) Bwaaaahh! While these prices may reflect the actual effectiveness in SOME situations, I for one don't agree with point values based entirely on such considerations. The resources behind the production of units seem entirely disregarded, and as far as combat effectiveness is concerned, the difficulty of employing non-vehicular guns in a fluid situation seem disregarded also. An AT-gun is better than a Self propelled one if you are on the defense, and know where the attack will come (no redeployment necessary). But how often does that hold true? And don't forget the price of a truck for transport. I was actually just setting up a PBEM game, and quickly realised that there is absolutely no point in buying AT-guns anymore. I suspect the AI will see it the same way, and it was already in a bad way in that respect.

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- 1/22/2002 9:35:00 AM

Paul Vebber

Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline

PRoduction costs have nothing to do with game related point values and never will. No matter what you pick for a point scheme, there will be something that will seem to one person or another a "better bargain". AT guns have a significant stealth and survivability advantage in many situations (ie AT guns typically get several shots before they are spotted, and require several hits to kill off. bviously if they have to figh infantry they will be in trouble, and require good planning to use properly. Vehicles. especially light AT vehicles, have mobility, but especially the lightly armored variety are often dispatched by a single hit. The current prices are done based on a consistent formula. The spread sheet that did it is 47MB (Yes forty-seven MEGA BYTES) in size. THere are hundred of weighting factors that could each be the subject of heady debate. I have basically given up that any sort of points system that will satisfy everyone is possible, for the simple reason that different players have different tactics that stress different sorts of units in different situations making a singlepoint value an invalid measure of value in all the situations. But like Democracy, its the worst form of game balancing, except for all the others...

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- 1/22/2002 11:04:00 AM

asgrrr

Posts: 529
Joined: 9/18/2001
From: Iceland
Status: offline

This is not something that I want to make a great beefcake out of. The approach taken has a lot in favor of it, perhaps not least objectivity. I personally think it is a bad turn to ignore the entire "supply and demand" aspect, it makes for weird and ahistorical armies. But that is something I can swallow. In a democracy, the only baromet is what comes out of the ballot box. If players stop buying AT-guns and machineguns, (and I'm not saying they have) that is an election.

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Never hate your enemy.
It clouds your judgement.

(in reply to asgrrr)

Post #: 3