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Respawned US CAs and CLs

 
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Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 10:49:49 PM   
Svar

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 9/7/2000
From: China Lake, Ca
Status: offline 		When I actually lost some US CAs in my Scenario #14 game in 2 Nov 42 they all were respawned as Cleveland class CLs so I used the same turn to test the mechanics of the US cruiser respawning routine. I was only able to lose CAs 21 different times because the same changes resulted in the same results. Twice I was able to lose 6 or more CAs. The first time I lost 7 CAs and they were respawned as 5 CAs and 2 CLs. The next time I lost 6 CAs and they were respawned as 2 CAs and 4 CLs. Of the 21 lost CAs only 8 were respawned as CAs, the other 13 were respawned as CLs but I think the probability is 50% for either class, the sample just isn't large enough. The maximum return time was 549 days and the minimum time was 458 days with the average very close to 500 days. Since there are 7 Baltimore class CAs that would be available if the game went out to Mar 46 that are not in the game I'm probably going to add the Jan 45 and Apr 45 arrival dates to my Scenario #15 OOB if I can find space and use the last 5 arrival dates for any respawned CAs that may show up.
Post #: 1
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 10:51:41 PM   
olivier_slith


Posts: 187
Joined: 5/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		How did you manage to play so many games?

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(in reply to Svar)
Post #: 2
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 10:52:04 PM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Japan is so screwed

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Post #: 3
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 10:57:05 PM   
Svar

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 9/7/2000
From: China Lake, Ca
Status: offline 		It is the same game I just replayed the same turn over again trying to change the combat results by changing where I sent 10 US and Austrailian CAs. In the original turn there were only 4 CAs but I split off 6 more from the Air Combat TFs for the test.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 4
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 11:25:54 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		If a CA dies, er sinks, and is respawned as a CA (50% chance?) and it sinks again, does it get respawned again (re-respawned)?

(in reply to Svar)
Post #: 5
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 11:34:57 PM   
esteban


Posts: 618
Joined: 7/21/2004
Status: offline 		Yep, that seems excessive. What was the historical replacement of lost cruisers?

Sunk U.S./Aussie CAs, as I recall:

Houston: Sunk off Java, replaced as Cleveland class CL
Astoria: Sunk at Savo Island, Not replaced, I think
Vincennes: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Baltimore class CA
Quincy: Sunk at Savo Island, Not replaced I think
Canberra: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Baltimore class CA
Chicago: Sunk off Russell Islands, Not replaced I think
Indianapolis: Sunk by submarine, Not replaced (but sunk at very end of war, so no time to do so)
Northampton: Sunk at Tassaforonga, Not replaced I think

Does anyone else have any info on the disposition of these ships that I think were not replaced? If what I recall is accurate, only 3 of the CAs that were sunk during WW2 were replaced by new CAs/CLs. All of the above ships were sunk in time to be replaced, using the game algorithms. Except for the Indianapolis, which was sunk after delivering the "Fat Man" A-bomb to Tinian, the others were all sunk in 1942. The only other exception was the Chicago, which was torpedoed by Betties off of the Russell Islands in early 1943.

So I think the Allies should be limited to 4-5 of these CA replacements. Otherwise there will be too much incentive to use Allied CAs like water.

(in reply to Svar)
Post #: 6
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/28/2004 11:40:36 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		Guys, also remember that by 1943, there were mass cancellations of cruisers as well. IIRC, around 15 Baltimores were cancelled or completed post war, and about 7 to 10 clevelands as well. If a ship is sunk in '43 (like the Northampton and Chicago), even if it is replaced, you won't see it until 1945 at the earliest. The main part of replacing ships is to replenish early war losses. After mid '43 I don't think it will really matter whether they get replaced or not.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to esteban)
Post #: 7
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/29/2004 1:34:15 AM   
Svar

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 9/7/2000
From: China Lake, Ca
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: esteban

Sunk U.S./Aussie CAs, as I recall:

Houston: Sunk off Java, replaced as Cleveland class CL
Astoria: Sunk at Savo Island, Not replaced, I think
Vincennes: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Baltimore class CA
Quincy: Sunk at Savo Island, Not replaced I think
Canberra: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Baltimore class CA
Chicago: Sunk off Russell Islands, Not replaced I think
Indianapolis: Sunk by submarine, Not replaced (but sunk at very end of war, so no time to do so)
Northampton: Sunk at Tassaforonga, Not replaced I think

Does anyone else have any info on the disposition of these ships that I think were not replaced? If what I recall is accurate, only 3 of the CAs that were sunk during WW2 were replaced by new CAs/CLs. All of the above ships were sunk in time to be replaced, using the game algorithms. Except for the Indianapolis, which was sunk after delivering the "Fat Man" A-bomb to Tinian, the others were all sunk in 1942. The only other exception was the Chicago, which was torpedoed by Betties off of the Russell Islands in early 1943.

So I think the Allies should be limited to 4-5 of these CA replacements. Otherwise there will be too much incentive to use Allied CAs like water.



Houston: Sunk off Java, replaced as Cleveland class CL-81
Astoria: Sunk at Savo Island, CL-90 but never completed
Vincennes: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Cleveland class CL-64
Quincy: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Baltimore class CA-71, participated in D-Day invasion of France but reported to PH 20 Mar 45
Canberra: Sunk at Savo Island, Replaced as Baltimore class CA-70 PH 1 Feb 44
Chicago: Sunk off Russell Islands, Replaced as Baltimore class CA-136 PH 30 May 45
Indianapolis: Sunk by submarine, Not replaced (but sunk at very end of war, so no time to do so)
Northampton: Sunk at Tassaforonga, Replaced as Baltimore class CA-125 Comm 7 Mar 53

Additional Baltimore class CAs not in the game:
CA-74 Columbus PH Dec 45
CA-75 Helena (named for lost CL) Comm 4 Sep 45
CA-130 Bremerton Comm 29 Apr 45
CA-131 Fall River Comm 1 Jul 45
CA-132 Macon Comm 26 Aug 45
CA 135 Los Angeles Comm 22 Jul 45

So as you can see not only were there 3 Baltimore class CAs renamed for lost sisters and participated in the war but an additional 6 that could have had the war extented into Mar 1946. It takes 4 to 5 months for a ship to report to PH after commissioning.

(in reply to esteban)
Post #: 8
RE: Respawned US CAs and CLs - 7/29/2004 10:11:19 PM   
Svar

 

Posts: 381
Joined: 9/7/2000
From: China Lake, Ca
Status: offline 		I found 3 open slots in the CA portion of the OOB and added the Bremerton SF 15 Mar 45, Columbus SF 23 May 45, and Los Angeles SF 1 Jun 45. I switched the St. Paul and Bremerton arrival dates so the St. Paul now arrives 13 Jan 45 instead of 15 Mar 45 of the original OOB. Now the respawn situation of the Baltimore class CAs is identical to the Essex class CVs in that all the historical hulls that participated in the war are in the OOB and respawned hulls can come in after the Aug 45 end of the actual war. For the record 3 Baltimore class CAs will enter the game prior to 1945 and 4 will enter the game after 1 Jan 45.

(in reply to Svar)
Post #: 9
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