Posts: 1320
Joined: 1/16/2003 From: Bay St Louis Ms. Status: offline
With the discussion of VAT and taxes and all that jazz I was wondering how much do tobacco products in youre neck of the woods.
Im on the Ms gulf coast in the US and cigs at my local smoke shop are 2.54 for a pack of Camel wide lites.Marlboro and winston are like 2.60.
Casino's and Airports they are 5 to 5.50 a pack.
For good pipe tobacco its about 2 bucks an ounce.
Also,are you guys seeing a decrease in public places were smoking is allowed.The restaraunt owners are mad becuase of statewide bannings of smoking in public places exept for bars and casino's.
Is it fair to tell a private business owner patrons cant smoke in his establishment?If people are bothered by the smoke than dont visit the place.
There is a neiborhood retaraunt in New Orleans were everyone in the hood gathers every sunday to watch the Saints play.The owner has gotten into trouble for allowing the people to smoke inside after a staewide law had been passed.These people have been going to the same placed for over 30 years to watch football.these people want drink and smoke and enjoy the game....I feel its none of the lawmakers business to tell owners people cant smoke inside....
With the discussion of VAT and taxes and all that jazz I was wondering how much do tobacco products in youre neck of the woods.
In Norway a 20 pack costs $8.50 - $9.5 A box of snus cost $8-$9
quote:
Also,are you guys seeing a decrease in public places were smoking is allowed.The restaraunt owners are mad becuase of statewide bannings of smoking in public places exept for bars and casino's.
Recently in Norway smoking at public places became illigal. This includes all restaurants, pubs etc. There was a great deal of fuzz about it, but it turned out to be no problem. It was all selfish whining .
quote:
Is it fair to tell a private business owner patrons cant smoke in his establishment?If people are bothered by the smoke than dont visit the place.
Yes, it is. The right to smoke is not a fundamental right. The right to be a guest at a restaurant, bar etc without having to smoke YOUR smoke is.
quote:
There is a neiborhood retaraunt in New Orleans were everyone in the hood gathers every sunday to watch the Saints play.The owner has gotten into trouble for allowing the people to smoke inside after a staewide law had been passed.These people have been going to the same placed for over 30 years to watch football.these people want drink and smoke and enjoy the game....I feel its none of the lawmakers business to tell owners people cant smoke inside....
Yes, It is terrible! Can they not go outside to smoke? The problems are much more an issue of habit than of logic. And it has very little to do with 'personal freedom', 'human rights' etc :)
< Message edited by JallaTryne -- 8/2/2004 3:20:19 PM >
It's a nasty addiction, and trust me I know addiction. I go more than 2 days without chocolate and I start gettng nasty :)
But sorry, smoking is also a good sign the person is nuts. What "positive" effect does a person get from inhaling burning vegetation?
I have a reason I am generally not going to cut them any more slack than that, and that is because most smokers not only smoke in public (where it annoys me a lot more than my eating a chocolate might annoy them), but they also likely smoke at home (where it likely inflicts its harmful effects on children with them having no say in the matter).
It's a dumb habit with zero redeeming value.
You might as well whine about being made drive with a seatbelt in your car too :) (well it's the law here in Canada at least).
Posts: 957
Joined: 2/8/2004 From: Not far enough away for some! Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: riverbravo
Also,are you guys seeing a decrease in public places were smoking is allowed.The restaraunt owners are mad becuase of statewide bannings of smoking in public places exept for bars and casino's.
Is it fair to tell a private business owner patrons cant smoke in his establishment?If people are bothered by the smoke than dont visit the place.
There is a neiborhood retaraunt in New Orleans were everyone in the hood gathers every sunday to watch the Saints play.The owner has gotten into trouble for allowing the people to smoke inside after a staewide law had been passed.These people have been going to the same placed for over 30 years to watch football.these people want drink and smoke and enjoy the game....I feel its none of the lawmakers business to tell owners people cant smoke inside....
Although I'm a non-smoker and regard the habit as a particularly vile one I agree with you on this one. Whilst I feel that smoking should be actively discouraged, if there is plenty of choice of establishments in the vicinity I don't see why a privately run restaraunt should not allow smoking inside.
Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003 From: England Status: offline
I pay £4.00 for 20 ciggies.
I also smoke a pipe at night which is something I might stick to and drop the ciggies altogether.
A the benefits of a Pipe are that you dont inhale the smoke, you have agreat selection of tobacco all flavours and nice aromas, and it is far more relaxing.
I took it up so I can carry on a tradation which is dying out.
Price varies, but that's about standard. I get mine from a Native American reservation at about $3 per pack, ordered in cartons.
All you non-smokers who think we harm your health; I hope you don't operate a car, or heat your home. Your pollution is destroying my environment, but I won't moan as long as you dont' ok?
Just to stay on topic here, I like to smoke Marlborough while playing KP, helps focus the mind :)
I also smoke a pipe at night which is something I might stick to and drop the ciggies altogether.
A the benefits of a Pipe are that you dont inhale the smoke, you have agreat selection of tobacco all flavours and nice aromas, and it is far more relaxing.
Where does the smoke go after its been in your mouth? I guess not in the air, since you dont inhale it 'Passive smoking' do kill people too, and was the reason for banning it in Norway. What you do in your home to your children is, however, your business .
quote:
I took it up so I can carry on a tradation which is dying out.
Price varies, but that's about standard. I get mine from a Native American reservation at about $3 per pack, ordered in cartons.
All you non-smokers who think we harm your health; I hope you don't operate a car, or heat your home. Your pollution is destroying my environment, but I won't moan as long as you dont' ok?
Just to stay on topic here, I like to smoke Marlborough while playing KP, helps focus the mind :)
Its either all or nothing, right? This is just a childish argument. I think your smoke has rotten your brain . But, what the hell, gotta keep traditions alive, even if it cost lives!
Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003 From: England Status: offline
Do you drive??
I dont and cars are killing people with there fumes on a far larger scale than smokers.
Anyone who brings up this argument who drives is a hypocrite.
Im sure you will just ridicule this argument but hey I dont care.
We all no the Yanks drive big fuel guzzleing cars and have a dont give a s**t attitude to everyone else. I cant take someone from the USA preaching about what is in effect enviromental issues when their government isnt interested in keeping the planet clean and whos only care is oil. Sod the rest of the world were to damn greedy to care.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JallaTryne
quote:
ORIGINAL: wodin
I pay £4.00 for 20 ciggies.
I also smoke a pipe at night which is something I might stick to and drop the ciggies altogether.
A the benefits of a Pipe are that you dont inhale the smoke, you have agreat selection of tobacco all flavours and nice aromas, and it is far more relaxing.
Where does the smoke go after its been in your mouth? I guess not in the air, since you dont inhale it 'Passive smoking' do kill people too, and was the reason for banning it in Norway. What you do in your home to your children is, however, your business .
quote:
I took it up so I can carry on a tradation which is dying out.
< Message edited by wodin -- 8/2/2004 4:52:15 PM >
Although I'm a non-smoker and regard the habit as a particularly vile one I agree with you on this one. Whilst I feel that smoking should be actively discouraged, if there is plenty of choice of establishments in the vicinity I don't see why a privately run restaraunt should not allow smoking inside.
I agree with you whole-heartedly
_____________________________
"Perserverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages."
I dont and cars are killing people with there fumes on a far larger scale than smokers.
Anyone who brings up this argument who drives is a hypocrite.
What argument? I did not bring up cars as an argument. Are you responding to Dinsdale? Are you suggesting that smoking and driving is equivalent? Are you suggesting that banning smoking in restaurants and public places are equivalent of stopping motor transport in public? If you are, then please educate me on why this is the same.
You can beat that non-smoking law just by making your business "private"(at least in my area), that's what business owners of local pubs have resorted to in my area, they charge a yearly membership of lol $1, and thus can use the private business status and protection from this stupid law. The law here was for "public" bars and restaurants.
< Message edited by ravinhood -- 8/2/2004 12:05:45 PM >
Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003 From: England Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: JallaTryne
quote:
ORIGINAL: wodin
Do you drive??
I dont and cars are killing people with there fumes on a far larger scale than smokers.
Anyone who brings up this argument who drives is a hypocrite.
What argument? I did not bring up cars as an argument. Are you responding to Dinsdale? Are you suggesting that smoking and driving is equivalent? Are you suggesting that banning smoking in restaurants and public places are equivalent of stopping motor transport in public? If you are, then please educate me on why this is the same.
Anyone who goes on about passive smoking whilst they themsleves drive a car is ridiculous.
I will educate you. Far more people have health issues from polluted enviroment than have from passive smoking.
The rise in Asthma in children here in the UK is huge. This is bought on by a polluted enviroment which in turn is mainly polluted by TRAFFIC. Also we all no there are carcigenic emmisions from cars even with CAT converters. So if you drive yet preach about smokers damaging other peoples health then as you can see it is being a hypocite. Its all very simple.
< Message edited by wodin -- 8/2/2004 5:14:24 PM >
ORIGINAL: wodin Anyone who goes on about passive smoking whilst they themsleves drive a car is ridiculous.
I will educate you. Far more people have health issues from polluted enviroment than have from passive smoking.
The rise in Asthma in children here in the UK is huge. This is bought on by a polluted enviroment which in turn is mainly polluted by TRAFFIC. Also we all no there are carcigenic emmisions from cars even with CAT converters. So if you drive yet preach about smokers damaging other peoples health then as you can see it is being a hypocite. Its all very simple.
You beat me to it. Hallelujiah brother
Smoking is such an issue right now as it's one of the few "problems" governments can "solve." They can't shut down industry, power or transport, but they can get the smokers out of restaurants
Posts: 957
Joined: 2/8/2004 From: Not far enough away for some! Status: offline
quote:
ORIGINAL: wodin
Do you drive??
I dont and cars are killing people with there fumes on a far larger scale than smokers.
Anyone who brings up this argument who drives is a hypocrite.
Im sure you will just ridicule this argument but hey I dont care.
It's an interesting point but I think this is a different argument. There are many people in society for whom the car is nigh-on a necessity. Whilst smoking can be an addiction it is something that many do by choice and if the World ran out of nicotine tomorrow society wouldn't fall apart (although there might be some very tense individuals out there.
quote:
We all know the Yanks drive big fuel guzzling cars and have a dont give a s**t attitude to everyone else. I cant take someone from the USA preaching about what is in effect enviromental issues when their government isnt interested in keeping the planet clean and whos only care is oil. Sod the rest of the world we're to damn greedy to care.
I don't think this is entirely true and doesn't do your argument any favours although I do understand why you feel this way.
They implemented an indoor smoking ban in my city a couple of years ago. Big hoopla at first - it's going to drive businesses out, smoker's rights, etc. etc. Turned out to be a phart in a windstorm. The bars and resturants are generally doing better now than they were before - the smokers step outside and the non-smokers come more often and stay longer. I'm actually quite glad that I can go to a bar to hear a band and not have to come home and take a shower and hide my clothes. At first a bunch of the owners were launching protests and threatening lawsuits - don't hear a peep about that today.
Regarding pipe and cigar smoking - actually, your cancer risks aren't much different. Lung cancer rates are still far higher than they are among non-smokers. Also, you get more tongue/throat/neck cancers from pipe and cigar smoking than from cigarettes - from resting that pipe stem in your mouth and swallowing all that good tobacco juice. My grandpa was a pipe smoker - I still remember the day he asked my dad to look at this funny lump he found on his neck.... :-(
And yup, I'm a former smoker and a number of my immediate family are current smokers. Personally, I don't mind if people smoke (though I worry about my family members), but I think they ought to do it on their own time in their own place instead of claiming it is their "right" to smoke around the rest of us or around kids. I got plenty of bad habits of my own, but I hope to keep them to myself.
I dont and cars are killing people with there fumes on a far larger scale than smokers.
Anyone who brings up this argument who drives is a hypocrite.
What argument? I did not bring up cars as an argument. Are you responding to Dinsdale? Are you suggesting that smoking and driving is equivalent? Are you suggesting that banning smoking in restaurants and public places are equivalent of stopping motor transport in public? If you are, then please educate me on why this is the same.
Anyone who goes on about passive smoking whilst they themsleves drive a car is ridiculous.
I will educate you. Far more people have health issues from polluted enviroment than have from passive smoking.
The rise in Asthma in children here in the UK is huge. This is bought on by a polluted enviroment which in turn is mainly polluted by TRAFFIC. Also we all no there are carcigenic emmisions from cars even with CAT converters. So if you drive yet preach about smokers damaging other peoples health then as you can see it is being a hypocite. Its all very simple.
You just make it too simple. The question is not so simple. You in effect argue like this: "We cannot do anything with things that are bad for you and socieity UNLESS we do it for all things in scoceity that is bad, nomatter what the consecuences". Is this how society evolves? And you dont answer my questions; just repeating your strange argument. Noone here has argued that carpollutant represent a danger to the healt. Maybe a greater danger than passive smoking. But You obviously believe that smoking is a fundamental "right" to people. Ah, yes, neither is car of course, but one simply cannot bann the use of car in a society that so much depend upon it. Our society does not depend upon cigarettes, does it? If you want to change my opinion, id appreciate you answer the questions from my last post.
< Message edited by JallaTryne -- 8/2/2004 6:33:43 PM >
Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003 From: England Status: offline
No. All Im saying is someone who drives shouldnt preach to someone who smokes.
Both are bad for health.
As for your rant about society forget it. The way civilisation is going soon our love of cars and many other things will blow up in our faces. Then maybe we will find a different way of living which will be a benefit to all and the planet. Our society is based on the Roman ways and eventually it will fall more than likely through our own pompous view that the way we live now is the right way.
My cars so important so sod the health of the planet is the same as my ciggie is so important so sod the health of someone who is sitting next to me. You dont need to drive. I dont and I get by.
See the thing is that I will not smoke in a non smoking enviroment. I will smoke outside if Im in someones house etc etc. You drive your car past many people who really dont want your fumes. When youy stopped at lights and kids cross the road etc etc.
I am in a posistion not to harm others your are not. So carry on and tell me about how Im damaging peoples health then look at your own back yard.
< Message edited by wodin -- 8/2/2004 7:59:33 PM >
I don't drive myself, but I guess that is just a condition ecomomics forced on me.
I will go Wodin one step further though.
I recently saw a fine article on the news of a government building built out west here in Canada. It was made "green friendly". Solar power, solar heated water, better designed window overhangs for shading to reduce need for air conditioning. The whole building was NOT expensive to make, the people simple had to decide they were going to make it that way. It uses 60% less power as a result and it uses rainwater for the heating (solar heated water system built into solar power collectors). They use the rain water for all manner of building needs.
Basically, the bottom line, the building if it was the norm would for the most part meet our nations Kyoto needs with no other effort even being required.
Getting back to smoking though. There is no defense for a dumb habit. You can make it less dumb by citing other equally or more stupid practices though.
We need to just stop dumping so much toxic garbage into our lives in general.
Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003 From: England Status: offline
Im someone who fought off a heroin addiction in my past. I know all about destructive drugs be they ciggies alcohol or other drugs.
Its all bad I just feel that someone shouldnt preach certian things when they are responsible for doing them aswell. The end result is the same no matter what were talking about.
Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003 From: England Status: offline
Hexed gamer can give me s**t for smoking as he doesnt drive. Im willing to except this of him.
Someone who does drive and tells someone that they are killing people with their fumes from smoking is someone who can F off.
What your saying to me as that your car is needed for the cogs of society or society will collapse. I dont think so. The only thing that might collapse is yourself as youll have to walk more. You value your car more than other peoples health. I bet you car has harmed more people than my smoking. Like I said I will not smoke near people who dont. As for smoking in the open air. I really dont think that is an issue at all it has to be in some kind of enclosed space to possibly damage someone unlike a car.
As for evolving why do we have legs?
< Message edited by wodin -- 8/2/2004 9:10:44 PM >
Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Marlboro? 
Marlboro? - 
. 
Can they not go outside to smoke? The problems are much more an issue of habit than of logic. And it has very little to do with 'personal freedom', 'human rights' etc :)
. 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread