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History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 6:01:11 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

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This show will search for and analyze the the sunken japanese subs in the attack on Pearl Harbor. Looks like a good show. FYI
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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 6:26:20 PM   
rogueusmc


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There is always something worth watching on the HistoryChannel...even if it is nazis half the time.

Discovery Wings has good stuff on it too.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 6:51:05 PM   
olivier_slith


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To follow up on a comment I made on another thread, there's some kind of morbid fascination on Axis figures... and the History Channel is doing nothing to prevent it. Au contraire, it seems to raise their ratings so they put more of it...

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 7:26:43 PM   
rogueusmc


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I'd have to agree with you there.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 7:26:55 PM   
MengCiao

 

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I've played war games for 35 years so I'm very tired of the Jerries.

And around my house, the History Channel is generally referred to as
"the Nazi channel"...........

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 7:27:57 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

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Ouch, well okay, tonight on the Nazi channel they will be talking about Japanese subs and the attack on Pearl Harbor.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 7:30:16 PM   
MengCiao

 

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Cool! That's a refreshing change!!!

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 7:37:06 PM   
Primal Fury

 

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...But, of course, those midget subs were inspired by a nazi design...

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 8:07:58 PM   
UncleBuck

 

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We refer to the History Channel as teh Hitler Channel. All Hitler All teh Time. It got this name after an entire weekend a year ago with Nothing but Hitler. I still watch teh channel all the time but, yeah it is the Hitler channel not History Channel.

UB

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 8:11:11 PM   
Nikademus


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right now though they are presenting a facinating series called World War I in color. Its really nice seeing those majestic battleships and battlecruisers in pseudo color vs old grainy black and white.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 8:16:10 PM   
DrewMatrix


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quote:

seeing those majestic battleships and battlecruisers in pseudo color


(Seriously): Weren't the WWI ships all grey anyhow?

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 8:28:24 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

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Yep, on Saturday night, they had like 6 hours from 5-11 of WWI in color. Was actually quite good.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 8:44:50 PM   
MengCiao

 

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Well that's a shock. I quit watching the History channel after seeing
utterly impossible things such as a T26 burning in Minsk in 1944 according to the narrator (well he said it was 1944 but the film was obviously Nazi propaganda from 1941)....and the agony of the jap fleet at Wonggawonga (substitute appropriate location for generalized "agony") as illustrated by
the usual footage of the Lexington or Wasp on fire.

Oh the humanity...the poor japs...forced to use their enemy's ships and then to have them sunk by their own misguided stuff...agony.

I'll have to look at the History channel again some time.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 8:48:43 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

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Yes, the visuals they show in some shows do not match what they are talking about. This bothers me sometimes, but I realize that I should listen more to what they say and understand that sometimes they do not have something that exactly fits their narration and so they need something to symbolism the discussion. But I can understand where you are coming from.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 9:00:08 PM   
dtravel


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Too many people today are already forgetting the importance of WWII. While the History Channel may over-cover it a bit at least they are attempting to put something about it in front of the faces of the next generation. <Shudders at the thought of even more people thinking the Holocaust was nothing but propaganda.>

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 9:21:29 PM   
riverbravo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MengCiao

I've played war games for 35 years so I'm very tired of the Jerries.





yea,its good to get out of the ETO.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 9:27:32 PM   
MengCiao

 

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I guess my real gripe with the history channel is that it puts itself forward as anything other than vacuously sensationalistic when 90% of what it shows can be summarized as "Here's a simplistic, misleading narrative along with some totally misleading images...gosh isn't it great we're finally telling everyone something confusing and incorrect about something that we ought to explain properly?"

History is a very difficult topic and a channel supposedly devoted to it
ought to try to do a better job of explaining things.

Occasionally there are very good things on the HC, but this just shows that they choose to have weird crap most of the time for some reason.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 9:29:31 PM   
RUPD3658


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The best flaw is that any documentary on Pearl Harbor has a clip of Dauntlesses with Japenese marking diving to attack. This was from a US propaganda film made after the attacks for the news reels. Easy to tell since Vals had fixed landing gear.

I am a History Channel addict though. If it wasn't for them I would know nothing about Korea since we do not cover it in school.

The shows can be cheesy and the stock footage is often wrong (Tigers at Dunkirk ect.) but it is still entertaining. It is no worse than Victory at Sea or The World at War we used to get on PBS.

I also get History Channel International and flip between the two, much to my wife's dismay. Who wants to watch "Changing Spaces" or anything on the Lifetime network anyway?

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 9:43:46 PM   
carnifex


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My friends and I have a game. Every time we are watching the Hitler Channel, the first person to yell out "Burning Jeep!" scores a point.

You are allowed to yell out "Burning Jeep!" any time the footage shown does not match the narration. You are not allowed to yell for an esoteric point, like for example, if you know the command version of PzKpfw 38(d) sports a bigger antenna, but they're plainly showing one that's too small.

But...anything major is fair for Burning Jeep! Most of our points are scored on out-of-theater clips. Like they were doing the Italian Campaign, and showing some Normandy footage. Or showing Marines landing on a beach in Europe, or a Stuka peeling off to bomb an American convoy in the Philippines.

The great thing about Burning Jeep! is that no matter how much in the hole you get point-wise, you can instantly win due to the sudden death rule. That's when you actually spot the footage of the burning jeep. You know the one I'm talking about. It's a quick shot of an american soldier driving madly while the back of his jeep is on fire. Sometimes he drives the jeep from right to left and sometimes from left to right, depending on how they mount the film I guess :) That shot is guaranteed to show up in any Hitler Channel show that features combat footage.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 9:59:00 PM   
MengCiao

 

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Lately I've watched a lot of home fixer-upper shows. I'd like to watch
some nice shows about important things being blown up in important ways
...but there's just not a lot of good footage of such things.

On the other hand, anything is better than lifetime or Oxygen. I'll watch T26s burn all day rather than see Farniloine have trouble with that darned Scooter guy who just keeps stealing her neighbors children and forcing them to dig for rare tortiseshell handbag clasps in Guatemala.

Okay...maybe that particular show about Farniloine wasn't so bad.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 10:27:48 PM   
UncleBuck

 

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Now add the skill level Carnifex. Every time someone beats you to "Burning Jeep" All other players must do a shot. Sounds like a fun game to me.

UB

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 10:45:48 PM   
Onime No Kyo


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Considering my love/hate relationship with the HC I just have to put in my 2 cents. Granted, the footage matches the topic maybe 50% of the time. But then again, it must be supremely hard to find enough footage to stock a 30 minute show (minus commercials). Heck, even movies have "burning jeeps". Like "Crimson Tide" (one of the best war movies in the last 10 years) had Nam footage spliced in between footage of Chechniya. WWI in Color recycles the same footage over an over, but is still a superbly made and narrated show.

What really pulls my chain, however, is the sensationalism of the thing. The same midget sub show is being billed as "uncovering the last mystery of PH". Give me a break!!! They already had a show (if this is not the same one) where a team of divers went searching for the sub the Ward sank and indeed found it with a hole smack-dab through the conning tower. This was last year.

Also, has anyone seen that show "Command Desicions"? What a bunch of slop. Can I get someone to agree with me that this stuff is made for the Middle School level, if that.

Having said that, they are, or seem to be, trying. That show with videogame animations of ancient battles (the name escapes me) I found to be very entertaining.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 10:53:59 PM   
olivier_slith


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well, besides the cheezeness of HC, the point I was trying to make between the lines is Why Americans are so fascinated with Nazis? Look, when I was playing tabletop wargames, I was alwyas intrigued by guys who always wanted to play the Axis side. Never the Allies. One told me one day that it's more challenging. But I always felt this explanation insufficient. It's almost as if those guys would have prefer that the Axis won!

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 11:03:32 PM   
MengCiao

 

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Near as I can tell, quasi-historical shows with maps and diagrams that
actually explain what is going on tend to be made by non-American
production units, while stuff that is obviously American-made for the
American market tends to have no sensible content whatsoever even in the case of maps and diagrammatic simulations.

You'd think that the HC could sort of build on its own texts to get better
and better approximations of reality...but most of its expositions seem to rely on an audience with many important mental screws all missing at the same time:

1) they don't know what anything is
2) they still would not know if you told them
3) they think they already know all about everything though apparently they don't know a thing about anything
4) they don't like maps or diagrams
5) they like to think they are getting the final, real story
6) but any deranged set of similar images is the final real story

And that's just part of the problems with the audience the HC assumes.
I hope nobody really is mentally in that assumed audience. It's kind of hard to imagine...but I guess the marketting guys at HC can imagine it:

"Look," the marketting guy says, "Your average viewer is just like me.
They don't know what anything is or where anything is or when anything happened. They are floating in a primordial soup of pure ignorance and they want to be flattered by being told the ultimate secrets about things they have at least vaguely heard of....etc."

"Yeah," says the producer, "but what has anyone ever heard of?"

Marketting guy, " I don't know...let's go look at what we showed last year....there's some chance people might have the ability to remember what they saw last year..."

"Oh I don't know...." says the producer.

< Message edited by MengCiao -- 8/2/2004 4:04:47 PM >


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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 11:07:43 PM   
vonmoltke


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Heh. That attitude is not limited to the Hitler Channel MC. You would not believe how many misconceptions about World War II I came away from my government funded education with. When we actually covered World War II, that is.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 11:13:58 PM   
MengCiao

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhennin

well, besides the cheezeness of HC, the point I was trying to make between the lines is Why Americans are so fascinated with Nazis? Look, when I was playing tabletop wargames, I was alwyas intrigued by guys who always wanted to play the Axis side. Never the Allies. One told me one day that it's more challenging. But I always felt this explanation insufficient. It's almost as if those guys would have prefer that the Axis won!


It's a fundamental mystery of the American Psyche. I'm a Texan so I can see the Nazis as definitely bad and very unpleasant since they shot up the Texas 36th (national guard)division pretty bad on several occasions and generally did not behave themselves very well even when it would have been in their own interest...but for many Americans something about the jerries is very appealing. In some ways, if you like being the allies in a war game like I do, this is a good thing since there's always a lot of wannabe jerries to trounce....but it is kind of disturbing, now that you mention it...though I guess I've gotten so used to it that most of the time I don't notice.

But I don't know why Americans find jerry to be particularly intriguing and even appealing. It's a mystery to me.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/2/2004 11:37:25 PM   
Tophat

 

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Gentlemen,
Please remember so many Americans have only the vaguest notion of history it can make you weep.American interest in the Nazi's or the Imperial Japanese can be attributed partly to the love of the "underdog" along with the media glamorizing of both these regiemes.From my fellow americans I can accept "pig ignorance" as a valid reason for there infatuation with the Axis.I find european pro-Axis sentiment harder to understand and more worrying.
But thats ok.......hate America is in vogue this centuary which is fine,the way things are going someday soon they'll get their wish and the US won't be there for them.Ahhh,to see the look on their faces that fateful day but it'll be a bittersweet ethereal moment in time before the hammer falls on us all.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/3/2004 12:15:31 AM   
Damien Thorn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MengCiao

quote:

ORIGINAL: dhennin

well, besides the cheezeness of HC, the point I was trying to make between the lines is Why Americans are so fascinated with Nazis? Look, when I was playing tabletop wargames, I was alwyas intrigued by guys who always wanted to play the Axis side. Never the Allies. One told me one day that it's more challenging. But I always felt this explanation insufficient. It's almost as if those guys would have prefer that the Axis won!


It's a fundamental mystery of the American Psyche. I'm a Texan so I can see the Nazis as definitely bad and very unpleasant since they shot up the Texas 36th (national guard)division pretty bad on several occasions and generally did not behave themselves very well even when it would have been in their own interest...but for many Americans something about the jerries is very appealing. In some ways, if you like being the allies in a war game like I do, this is a good thing since there's always a lot of wannabe jerries to trounce....but it is kind of disturbing, now that you mention it...though I guess I've gotten so used to it that most of the time I don't notice.

But I don't know why Americans find jerry to be particularly intriguing and even appealing. It's a mystery to me.


I'm someone who always plays the Axis side in any WW2 game. One of the reasons I do it is for the challenge. I also do it for the "underdog" reason mentioned above. I, and many people around the world, repsect what the Axis powers were able to accomplish. This isn't limited to Nazis either. In 1904 Japan took on a major Eurpoean power, Russia, and beat the snot out of them. That was the first time a non-White power had done that. It is even moer impressive when you consider that 40 years earlier they were running around with swords and only had limited exposure to gunpower.

In wargames the US is often viewed as a bully because they have all the advantages and they can be clumsy and awkward and STILL usually beat anybody they want. That kind of playing has no appeal to many gamers. Now, if you are talking about playing hte US during the revolutionary war -- I'm all over that. Then THEY were the underdog.

I'm not deluded. I wouldn't have wanted the Nazis to win the war. I wouldn't want to live under their system of government (although I'd take it over communism). I wouldn't mind if they would have been able to have a few more years of success before being defeated though. Wiping out the Bolsheviks would have done the world a lot of good.

The final reason many people play the Axis countries is WW2 games is because they can trace their ancestery back to those countries. Remember, it may be a Nazi government in charge but it is still GERMANY and, if you are of German ancestry you may still want to fight for Germany.

I have a friend who is German. He loves watching the "All Hitler Channel" (we call it that too). He only watches the first half of all the programs though -- just up to the point where the Germans start losing.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/3/2004 12:21:17 AM   
Tophat

 

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Sorry,
My comments were not directed at you but for the most part the 50 odd million americans who can't even tell you who the vicepresident is! Also the condescending European/quasi-allies of ours bame America crowd.

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RE: History Channel Monday 9pm EST - 8/3/2004 12:27:42 AM   
Damien Thorn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat

Sorry,
My comments were not directed at you but for the most part the 50 odd million americans who can't even tell you who the vicepresident is! Also the condescending European/quasi-allies of ours bame America crowd.


Actually, they know who the vice-president is. They make him the main villian in big Hollywood pictures, so I hear.

I saw a funny bumber sticker yesterday "10 out of 10 terrorists agree... anyone but Bush".

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