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A BIG favour to ask of the designers

 
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A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 2:54:31 AM   
akbrown


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		I have a question for the game designers. It is a real favour that I ask for and I know that it is probably asking for the impossible, but I thought that there would be no harm in asking, so here goes:

Is it possible to recode the way that the map data is stored? What I mean by map data is the hex terrain types and communication path locations and types (road/track/rail). I am no programmer, but I am guessing that this data, which is all static, must be inbuilt into one of the game files somewhere as some type of data constant. It is presumably read once during game startup (or program startup?) and then never needs to be used again since it is static data. I assume that the location of this data is not easy to find and it would be in some type of binary (i.e. not easily readable) format.

I am hoping that consideration could be given to 'breaking out' this static data and relocating it into a separate file, in a readable format. Functionally the program would not have to change by very much - it would get to the same point in the code where it has to read in this map data, but the code would be modified to read it from the file instead of the current data location, wherever that may be. So although this would be a big change in design concept, it should not need to involve large or difficult changes in the game code (again I am guessing - I am no programmer).

Although recoding the game to do this should not be a big job (I hope), the benifits would be huge. People like me who are interested in making changes to the game map (I have proposed changing the map of Australia to make it more accurate - see the 'Can the map of Australia be improved?' thread for details) would then have the ability to modify the map data themselves. We could then spend as much time as we like on correcting the maps and trying to come up with the best possible version, both from the historical accuracy and the gameplay perspectives. We would no longer need to plead with Matrix/2by3 to do the time consuming modifications themselves. We could do it ourselves by modifying the data in the file using a simple text file editor, and making our own map graphics to match.

In fact I believe it is possible that the code modification I am requesting would take less time and effort to implement than making a new version of the map, so this could be of benifit in terms of time and effort for the game designers as well (assuming that they agree that a map modification is a good idea).

If the map is moddable in this way, then it would be in line with the excellent modding abilities already provided with the game editors. Those editors allow the fanbase to apply their considerable expertise to tweaking and improving the OOB databases, which I believe will, in time, result in the OOBs being continually improved, even after official patches are no longer released.

I believe that the base locations are already modifiable in the database editor, and that new bases can already be added using the current editor, although I have never tried to do this - hopefully it is already possible.

I would still love to see the designers revisit the map itself to see whether it can be changed to make it more accurate, but I make this request as an alternative in case they decide not to do that, for whatever reason. Of course my 'wishlist' preference would be for both things to be done, but if a map change is not contemplated, or considered to be too much work, then this proposed change would allow us fans to do some modding of our own as an alternative.

Regards,
akbrown
Post #: 1
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 3:30:48 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		The data is stored in pwhex.dat. There is only a single version for all scenarios. The data is not aimed at user editing because it is rather dangerous and everyone must have exactly the same data or the game goes up in smoke.

(in reply to akbrown)
Post #: 2
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 4:27:45 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline 		Yeah, I'd guessed that.

Also the UV data, sopachex.dat, seems to be in the game folder as well. I've had a quick look at the data but have deciphered the format yet. I have no desire to alter the data, but it would be nice to read it so that base-to-base distances by sea/land could be determined rather than as the crow flies. Although at the end of the day, I doubt there'll be too large a difference for the type of journeys I'm thinking of. I guess I'll just use the direct distance and call it approximate.

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Bodhi

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 3
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 6:35:15 AM   
akbrown


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

The data is stored in pwhex.dat. There is only a single version for all scenarios. The data is not aimed at user editing because it is rather dangerous and everyone must have exactly the same data or the game goes up in smoke.


Thanks for the information. If I had looked harder I might have spotted that myself!

I guess I need to rephrase my request then: Is it possible for this file (and corresponding game code) to be modified so that the file data is in a human readable form, so that it can be more easily modded? Or failing that, a description of the file so that modders can make their own changes.

I understand that if someone modifies this file it would break PBEM, but isn't that true of any user mods? My intention is not to allow 'cheats' but to make it easier for people like myself to work on map modifications without having to ask Matrix to do it for us. They have enough other things to worry about I am sure. Hopefully modified maps could then be released in user-made scenarios just as OOB mods are. I would still love the map to be revisited by the designers, but this approach would enable us to do it ourselves if the designers decide not to update the game map.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 4
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 1:57:00 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		I'm sure some-one will reverse engineer the pwhex.dat file format sooner or later. Whether this is an approved action or not though I have no idea ...

(in reply to akbrown)
Post #: 5
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 2:10:20 PM   
GBirkn


Posts: 249
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: the briny deep
Status: offline 		I hope they do approve it -- this game just cries out for modding. I'd love to see them take a page from the FPS world, and release a full SDK for those of us who are inclined to tinker. Unlikely, I suppose, buy hey, a guy can dream!

_____________________________

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let's give them all they want." -- Gen. W. T. Sherman

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 6
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 2:53:21 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		GBirkn I couldn't agree more. It's a way to make a bit more money as well ...

(in reply to GBirkn)
Post #: 7
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 3:16:33 PM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GBirkn

I hope they do approve it -- this game just cries out for modding. I'd love to see them take a page from the FPS world, and release a full SDK for those of us who are inclined to tinker. Unlikely, I suppose, buy hey, a guy can dream!


Now that would be an unexpected bonus! However, I doubt we'll get anything at all until the patching process has run it's course.

_____________________________

Bodhi

(in reply to GBirkn)
Post #: 8
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 3:48:18 PM   
GBirkn


Posts: 249
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: the briny deep
Status: offline 		I'm sure you're right, Bodhi, but it's a pleasant dream. It's a pity that the wargaming world never developed the tradition of community mods and add-on programs that spring up around most first-person shooters. But hey, it's never too late to start!

< Message edited by GBirkn -- 8/4/2004 8:54:24 AM >

_____________________________

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let's give them all they want." -- Gen. W. T. Sherman

(in reply to Bodhi)
Post #: 9
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 4:06:17 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

I guess I need to rephrase my request then: Is it possible for this file (and corresponding game code) to be modified so that the file data is in a human readable form, so that it can be more easily modded? Or failing that, a description of the file so that modders can make their own changes.


Prior to release, the editor was enabled. For release, it was disabled.

The basic problem here is that the data is shared by every scenario. Should you change the map, you have to update every scenario and the 2 different map segements (.bmp so not too tough).

You game will not longer function against anyone else's game at this point.

I understand what you want, but I think it needs to come through official patch channels or we'll simply have people broken all over the place.

I wish the map data was just another scenario file, then what you want is simple. Because it is shared, changes are global which makes them dangerous.

(in reply to akbrown)
Post #: 10
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 4:51:43 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Surely that's only a problem for multiplayer use? For solo (and even hotseat?) use there's no problem at all?

  • Back up copy of original map file
  • edit map, save copy.
  • Play game, restore original map if required for playing other scenarios or people.

Sounds simple enough to me...
After all, any user-edited file is the responsibility of the user, not the publisher!
Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 11
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 4:58:01 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Steve, while what you just said is childs play for some of us, it is not for others.

As supporting the others tends to take the majority of the time, you can understand why 2by3 would not want this messed up.

Now if one of you wants to write a nice user friendly map switcher that keeps pwhex.dat + map slices all nicely backed up so people can flip them in an out ... Keep in mind that we are talking about 210 megs per slot ... so there needs to be good error checking for free space.

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 12
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 4:58:04 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline 		AGain, this is where a RDMS base design could make this type of thing a HUGE hit with players that like to tinker. Absent a tool, you could simply use SQL to mod games.

More on topic, many wargames today overlay map objects on generic digitized maps. That includes hexes. In the old days the map was a collection of individually background painted hexes with little bitmaps of game objects drawn in them. Your coastlines and rivers had that regular zig-zag look as they followed the outline of the hexes. More often than not, today, generic map images in the form of large bitmaps or jpegs are "blitted" to the canvas (window) and then the hexes are just polygonal outlines layed on top the map. Then game objects (bases, taskforces, cities, etc...) blitted via an appropriate raster op (ROP) on top of that. They use either WIN32 standard API's for that or DirectDraw routines if a DX based game. Some still use elaborately rendered individual hexes, or rectangles, though, that give the apperance of a pixel level digitized map when brought together (the old Red Alert RTS games did this, and it looks like WitP does this, too??? Hard to tell). either way, it takes a lot of graphics art work to get it all to fit together right, but you get beautiful maps like the WitP map.

For this game, one question is, are the rails, roads and trails separate elements painted on top the underlying map like the bases are or are they an integral part of the map (hexes) itself? I'm guessing they are part of the map....

< Message edited by ZOOMIE1980 -- 8/4/2004 3:01:06 PM >

(in reply to GBirkn)
Post #: 13
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:02:50 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

For this game, one question is, are the rails, roads and trails separate elements painted on top the underlying map like the bases are or are they an integral part of the map (hexes) itself? I'm guessing they are part of the map....


Hand painted map.

People have performance problems with just the simple display of a BMP and now you want to talk about having the map rendered via active code ... beam me up Scotty ... I need a real computer.

Even FPS games can't handle that on P4's with $700 graphic cards with a limited screen.

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 14
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:04:12 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Steve, while what you just said is childs play for some of us, it is not for others.

As supporting the others tends to take the majority of the time, you can understand why 2by3 would not want this messed up.

Now if one of you wants to write a nice user friendly map switcher that keeps pwhex.dat + map slices all nicely backed up so people can flip them in an out ... Keep in mind that we are talking about 210 megs per slot ... so there needs to be good error checking for free space.

That's why I said
quote:

After all, any user-edited file is the responsibility of the user, not the publisher!

If you're not sure of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it...or you should be prepared to restore from your original installation file.
:)

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 15
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:21:04 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

If you're not sure of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it...or you should be prepared to restore from your original installation file.
:)


Let me give you a good example of the problem ...

Lets say I am PBEM'ing you ...

I am Japan.

During my turn, I decide that I could really be doing much better if I had a road between x and y so i pop into edit mode and add the road ... wow, i'm doing great now ... You of course having the other pwhex with the correct values know nothing about it.

Now you come to attack me ... I jump into the editor and change the hex terrain value to Urban to get the maximum defensive bonus even though the real terrain happens to be open ... your attack goes down in flames!

See the problem?

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 16
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:36:42 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

For this game, one question is, are the rails, roads and trails separate elements painted on top the underlying map like the bases are or are they an integral part of the map (hexes) itself? I'm guessing they are part of the map....


Hand painted map.

People have performance problems with just the simple display of a BMP and now you want to talk about having the map rendered via active code ... beam me up Scotty ... I need a real computer.

Even FPS games can't handle that on P4's with $700 graphic cards with a limited screen.


I kinda figured the game map was one (or two) massive bitmaps or JPEGS with the hex grid just laying on top (displayed or not). I could not imagine doing it any other way, actually.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 17
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:38:34 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

If you're not sure of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it...or you should be prepared to restore from your original installation file.
:)


Let me give you a good example of the problem ...

Lets say I am PBEM'ing you ...

I am Japan.

During my turn, I decide that I could really be doing much better if I had a road between x and y so i pop into edit mode and add the road ... wow, i'm doing great now ... You of course having the other pwhex with the correct values know nothing about it.

Now you come to attack me ... I jump into the editor and change the hex terrain value to Urban to get the maximum defensive bonus even though the real terrain happens to be open ... your attack goes down in flames!

See the problem?


You make a habit of picking cheaters to play PBEM games with? Why would a player want to cheat? We get mad if we think the AI even "cheats".

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 18
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:44:21 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

If you're not sure of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it...or you should be prepared to restore from your original installation file.
:)


Let me give you a good example of the problem ...

Lets say I am PBEM'ing you ...

I am Japan.

During my turn, I decide that I could really be doing much better if I had a road between x and y so i pop into edit mode and add the road ... wow, i'm doing great now ... You of course having the other pwhex with the correct values know nothing about it.

Now you come to attack me ... I jump into the editor and change the hex terrain value to Urban to get the maximum defensive bonus even though the real terrain happens to be open ... your attack goes down in flames!

See the problem?
Not really, I said earlier it would only work for solo or maybe hotseat play. I personally prefer solo to multiplayer anyway, not least because of the possibilities for this sort of thing. Besides, isn't this possible anyway, if you've the skill and determination to cheat? (Shrug)

Basically, what you're saying is that there should never be a save-game editor. Maybe you're right, but I bet there'll be plenty of clamour for one!
Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 19
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:44:30 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

You make a habit of picking cheaters to play PBEM games with? Why would a player want to cheat? We get mad if we think the AI even "cheats".


<chuckle>

If cheating was not a problem, there would be absolutely no reason to even have the scenarios say they have been signed.

Since that was required, I think it speaks for itself. Exploiting weaknesses in the AI is also a form of cheating.

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 20
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:51:14 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

For this game, one question is, are the rails, roads and trails separate elements painted on top the underlying map like the bases are or are they an integral part of the map (hexes) itself? I'm guessing they are part of the map....


Hand painted map.

People have performance problems with just the simple display of a BMP and now you want to talk about having the map rendered via active code ... beam me up Scotty ... I need a real computer.

Even FPS games can't handle that on P4's with $700 graphic cards with a limited screen.


I kinda figured the game map was one (or two) massive bitmaps or JPEGS with the hex grid just laying on top (displayed or not). I could not imagine doing it any other way, actually.


The hexes are drawn right on to the map in WitP. In UV it was an overlay you could turn on or off. WitP has two maps, each in 16 parts, one has hexes and one doesn't. It is a stupid way of doing it, I feel, because it means you can't turn hexes on or off in the middle of a game. I liked the UV way better and I wonder why they switched to this new method.

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 21
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:54:00 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

You make a habit of picking cheaters to play PBEM games with? Why would a player want to cheat? We get mad if we think the AI even "cheats".


<chuckle>

If cheating was not a problem, there would be absolutely no reason to even have the scenarios say they have been signed.

Since that was required, I think it speaks for itself. Exploiting weaknesses in the AI is also a form of cheating.


Well all I can say about a person who would stoop to cheating in a computer war game is.....sad.... They revoke accounts on Everquest of players who persist in using known exploits...

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 22
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 5:57:18 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
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quote:

The hexes are drawn right on to the map in WitP. In UV it was an overlay you could turn on or off. WitP has two maps, each in 16 parts, one has hexes and one doesn't. It is a stupid way of doing it, I feel, because it means you can't turn hexes on or off in the middle of a game. I liked the UV way better and I wonder why they switched to this new method.


Not to point out that you are wrong, but you are wrong

If you look in your UV art directory, you will find a cspmap (hexes) and a cspmap2 (no hexes)

The only difference between UV & WitP maps is the size requiring the map to be broken up into 20 sections instead of just 1 simple file.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 23
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 6:01:00 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980
[...]Well all I can say about a person who would stoop to cheating in a computer war game is.....sad.... They revoke accounts on Everquest of players who persist in using known exploits...
True, but I'm afraid it does happen. You either trust the opponent or not, and if he consistently 'pulls a rabbit from a hat' he's either very, very lucky, or you decide not to game with him again.
Surely it's simple enough to include a checksum of the map in the (encrypted) save game file if 2BY3 are that paranoid.

Me, I simply prefer solo games anyway, although I have been persuaded to play multiplayer before now on occasion. Mainly I suppose that's because I like playing WITH games as much as simply PLAYING them. :)
Steve.

< Message edited by steveh11Matrix -- 8/4/2004 4:01:31 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 24
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 6:04:11 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Not to point out that you are wrong, but you are wrong

If you look in your UV art directory, you will find a cspmap (hexes) and a cspmap2 (no hexes)

The only difference between UV & WitP maps is the size requiring the map to be broken up into 20 sections instead of just 1 simple file.


OK, I didn't know that. Still, in UV you could turn hexes on or off in-game. Someone posted that in WitP the changes only take place the next time you start the game. I have never tried it though because the idea of playing without hexes is not appealing to me.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 25
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 6:05:48 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		There's two things. The permanent "map with hexes" and then the F6 "show hexsides". Case one requires a restart, case two not.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 26
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/4/2004 6:18:10 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

For this game, one question is, are the rails, roads and trails separate elements painted on top the underlying map like the bases are or are they an integral part of the map (hexes) itself? I'm guessing they are part of the map....


Hand painted map.

People have performance problems with just the simple display of a BMP and now you want to talk about having the map rendered via active code ... beam me up Scotty ... I need a real computer.

Even FPS games can't handle that on P4's with $700 graphic cards with a limited screen.


I kinda figured the game map was one (or two) massive bitmaps or JPEGS with the hex grid just laying on top (displayed or not). I could not imagine doing it any other way, actually.


The hexes are drawn right on to the map in WitP. In UV it was an overlay you could turn on or off. WitP has two maps, each in 16 parts, one has hexes and one doesn't. It is a stupid way of doing it, I feel, because it means you can't turn hexes on or off in the middle of a game. I liked the UV way better and I wonder why they switched to this new method.



Well I know that a really major problem in basic computer graphics is how images combine on a display. When you have your background bitmap (in Windows, at least, at the OS level, most all graphical stuff is a DIB, Device Independent Bitmap....don't know how it is in DirectDraw, though, but imagine it's similar), in this case the map, when you then want to draw something "on top" of that map like a base you perform a "Blit" which "combines" the image pixels you are putting on top with the underlying pixels of the map. The way it combines is controlable. You can completely overpaint, make you top image opaque/transparent, XOR, and so on. Each has a different effect. Then when the top image is removed you have to be able to "restore" the background to it's previous state. Things aren't so hard for rectangular images since bitmaps are stored "rectangularly". It gets tougher when the images aren't rectangles (ships, WitP LCU's, etc...). The whole thing can really a complicated MESS in a hurry! Even drawing lines on top of an existing bitmap is a very non-trivial operation.

I can see why, if they maintain two separate files, one with the hexes drawn and the other without, they might want to do it that way. This graphics stuff can ENORMOUSLY complex in a real hurry...and it all eats CPU cycles and memory.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 27
RE: A BIG favour to ask of the designers - 8/5/2004 2:45:17 AM   
akbrown


Posts: 43
Joined: 9/6/2000
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

If you're not sure of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it...or you should be prepared to restore from your original installation file.
:)


Let me give you a good example of the problem ...

Lets say I am PBEM'ing you ...

I am Japan.

During my turn, I decide that I could really be doing much better if I had a road between x and y so i pop into edit mode and add the road ... wow, i'm doing great now ... You of course having the other pwhex with the correct values know nothing about it.

Now you come to attack me ... I jump into the editor and change the hex terrain value to Urban to get the maximum defensive bonus even though the real terrain happens to be open ... your attack goes down in flames!

See the problem?


Yes I see the problem. Because the file is global it will mean that it is more difficult to manage if someone is playing more than one scenario with different map versions. I don't think it is sufficient reason to not help those of us who would like to make a modified map, however. I think that those of us who are interested in map improvements would willingly deal with this problem. Also, I think in a relatively small gaming community like the WitP one, it would not be long before a cheater similar to the one you describe would become well known, and be avoided by others.

Another thing that could be done to prevent such problems would be to include the pwhex file in any code that does file verification.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> A BIG favour to ask of the designers Page: [1]
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