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TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 2:03:29 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I played East Front and West Front many moons ago. Infact I bought both on their release dates.

I never played TOAW though. I havent bothered buying it either as I believed it wouldnt work on XP. However a birdy told me you can get TOAW COW to work by using win98 compatibility,

Im really after a game which covers WW1 and as this does can anyone tell me were I can purchase this game that isnt Ebay and is in the UK?

Thankyou

Jason
Post #: 1
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 3:22:11 AM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Wodin, finding ANY location that has it on sale will not be an easy one.

I found this source for you though, I also think they are a good supplier too.

http://www.navalwarfare.org/build/store.php

(grrr getting the specific page to give me a link is driving me nuts :))

Search under the turn based games and just scroll down till you see it,

They have it listing at 49 US which is about what it was selling for when last it was even aknowledged by its owners at Take2.

Oh, and it runs fine without screwing around on my XP using computer, win compatibility was not required.

< Message edited by Hexed Gamer -- 8/4/2004 1:26:08 AM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 2
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 4:37:46 AM   
Dirtdog20


Posts: 213
Joined: 1/17/2003
Status: offline 		Wodin, it runs fine with me on XP. You can get it direct from Take Two store but, I would use the link above as Take two has not supported any Talonsoft games they inherited from the merger. There is a WW1 PBEM scenario out there and several Balkan Wars (pre 1914) scenarios. If you are interested we can both get the scenario and bash eachothers brains a bit. PS make sure you get TOAW-COW for 49$ That covers everything from 1900 to today.

< Message edited by Dirtdog20 -- 8/3/2004 8:40:33 PM >

_____________________________

You mean that we gotta take a test after we read this stuff?!?

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 3
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 9:40:45 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		Booooo, I have TOAW Elite, how unfair is that, that I have to spend an additional $49 to be able to play the same game??? PATCH TOAW ELITE to work with XP please. :)

(in reply to Dirtdog20)
Post #: 4
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 10:41:03 AM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline 		I have TOAW Elite and also can not play it on XP. So its been sitting there collecting dust for ages, what a waste.

P.S. I lost a lot of respect for Talonsoft a few years ago... there are many reasons for this.

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 5
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 2:34:14 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		you could use emulators?

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 6
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 3:52:13 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		What are people view on TOAW?

How does it compare to games like Korsun Pocket? Is it a must have? Or is it superceded already or will be soon by any new releases? Whats the immersion factor like?

How does it compare to West Front/ East Front (I know the scale is different but is it generally a better game than these two)?

Thanks

(in reply to String)
Post #: 7
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 4:29:49 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

What are people view on TOAW?

How does it compare to games like Korsun Pocket? Is it a must have? Or is it superceded already or will be soon by any new releases? Whats the immersion factor like?

How does it compare to West Front/ East Front (I know the scale is different but is it generally a better game than these two)?

Thanks


i have only played TOAW CW of those games...

but i like it when i'm winning..

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 8
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 5:02:34 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		I have TOAW Elite Vol 1 and Vol 2.

Vol 1 will NOT play on XP, Vol 2 will.

But of course, it is the same old arguement.
If you have XP, you can always partition a portion of the hard drive, load 98SE on to it (or even go further back to 95 for that matter), and then run the game int the OS it likes better.

Or option 2, the one I support curently. Scrounge up an older system, something like a P1 or PII must be about worthless in a used computer location, and just load the games on it.

Sympathies to those that actually attach value to a PII system, but they are actually quite worthless. The parts can't be used in anything made in the last 3-5 years. I have a case, a PIII system even, and my friend basically abandoned it on me.
After the normal upgrade process, and a few years distance, and an unwillingness to ever actually get rid of anything, he ended up with sufficient parts to just tell me to scrounge in his many boxes of parts till I had the thing running.

I don't actually "like" 98SE, but the only logical solution with old wargames, is to just not force them to run on systems they don't like.
After about 2 years fussing with XP, I have realised, it is easier to find a derelict system that no one wants for more than peanuts, than it is to master the intricacies of what some games want on newer mega systems.

We have all heard of the hassles of getting the mouse to work for Steel Panthers for instance. I don't have any trouble running it on the old junker though.

And this older system makes a nice foot rest when I am not using it too :)

(in reply to String)
Post #: 9
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 11:01:50 PM   
IronDuke_slith

 

Posts: 1595
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Manchester, UK
Status: offline 		I thought TOAW COW would run with XP if you patched to the unnoffical 1.06? Norm released this a while back, my understanding is it would form the basis of a series of unnofficial patches, but I never saw anything further.

I think TOAW is still out there in many respects, at least until Battlefields comes along .


Regards,
IronDuke

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 10
RE: TOAW COW - 8/4/2004 11:50:34 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Hmm well my copy of TOAW CoW runs on XP with zero fuss no patching right off the cd actually.

(in reply to IronDuke_slith)
Post #: 11
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 12:45:36 AM   
IronDuke_slith

 

Posts: 1595
Joined: 6/30/2002
From: Manchester, UK
Status: offline 		Not everybody was that lucky. There were lots of people having trouble. I think Norm got the rights to the code or something, and XP support was one of the things he put in to the unnoffical patch. This was a year or two ago though, so I don't know where it went after that. I just checked Rugged Defence and there's no mention of any further patch so I think 1.06 was the last.

Regards,
IronDuke

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 12
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 1:33:05 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		TOAW is a hex gamers dream come true game and at least TOAW Elite offered a plethora of scnearios to play, unfortunately I can't play them because I have Win stupid XP.

You know if someone made an OS that every game ever made worked on it I think I'd pay quite a bit of money for that. It's such a headache having to adjust your system everytime you try to play a game, this game requires more graphics power, this game requires more EMS or XMS, this game requires more conventional memory, and on and on an on.

Now I do have DOXBOX and can play a lot of older dos games, but, my system speed is so fast, Gettysbury by SSI will play a complete scenario in 2 minutes! LOL And if I play, I can't even read the combat results because they fly by so fast. X-Com is the same way, the computer moves it's units so fast I can't even see what happend. Turn based games and games that give popup window results and the player has to click for it to release are fine, but, any games with a flowing combat results or movement engine are practically impossible to play. I've also tried Moslo, it didn't do a bit of good on a P4 2.4ghz hyper-threading system.

I really don't want to have to setup 2 or 3 systems to be able to play all my computer games from 1981 to the present though. Just one OS, you know like Lord of the Rings, one OS to bind them all. ;)

(in reply to IronDuke_slith)
Post #: 13
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 2:33:52 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		Hex gamers dream come true...........now that I like.

it comes to about £32.00 including shipping so I think I will purchase. If I'd known I'd have prob bought that instead of HTTR. Not that HTTR isnt good only aI still prefer time based games. I load up a HTTR scenario and think right should I start and then I think ............erm .........where........what....no I'll play KP.

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 14
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 2:34:05 AM   
EricGuitarJames

 

Posts: 957
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Not far enough away for some!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer



But of course, it is the same old arguement.
If you have XP, you can always partition a portion of the hard drive, load 98SE on to it (or even go further back to 95 for that matter), and then run the game int the OS it likes better.




Just tried to do that and I ended up having to totally reformat my hard drive. Lost a LOT of stuff (fortunately not everything - I'd backed up most of the mp3s and some of the downloaded games) so if anyone is going to attempt this, make sure that everything you want to keep is backed up first.

_____________________________

It's Just a Ride!

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 15
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 5:51:34 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Dunno about XP (I still run 2000 pro) but as far as TOAW is concerned: if you consider yourself any kind of fan of operational warfare (Battalion level and up) should own and play this landmark.

Just MHO of course. :)

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to EricGuitarJames)
Post #: 16
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 5:56:58 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		It is easy enough to dis XP. if one is set on playing some of our beloved wargame classics.

But, it has been my experience, that Win 2000, has to be the most disapointing OS ever made.

I can't remember how many people have been told "sorry we don't do Win 2000".

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 17
RE: TOAW COW - 8/5/2004 6:10:04 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

It is easy enough to dis XP. if one is set on playing some of our beloved wargame classics.

But, it has been my experience, that Win 2000, has to be the most disapointing OS ever made.

I can't remember how many people have been told "sorry we don't do Win 2000".
I can only tell you of my own experience which has been good for both - at home with 2000, at work with XP.
Steve.

_____________________________

"Nature always obeys Her own laws" - Leonardo da Vinci

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 18
RE: TOAW COW - 8/6/2004 5:27:37 AM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		The only thing I see WinXp has going for it over Win98se is that it supports higher than 512mb of memory. But, it sucks having some games that don't work on it. But, I solved my problem recently. I just put in another hard-drive with Win98se on it and all I have to do is just switch drives on bootup, no biggie I guess, but, still would be nice to have one OS that runs them all.

The stupid restore feature of WinXp is garbage if you get a virus or have some main file corruptions. I don't like WinXp at all really, but, most have already stopped supporting Win95, I suspect Win98se is just around the corner.

(in reply to steveh11Matrix)
Post #: 19
RE: TOAW COW - 8/7/2004 7:21:02 AM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		I've had COW on my PC w/XP through 1.03 to 1.04 and it's worked fine. Perhaps other versions are experiencing troubles. If I remember correctly, I did have to install it and reinstall it a couple of times however. Great game w/ tons of downloadable scenarios. Some aspects could definitely be improved upon, the naval and to some extent ,the air, have much room for enhancement. But it's unparelelled when it comes to displaying detail of OOBs (of course, you have to trust the scenario designer to be accurate).

(in reply to ravinhood)
Post #: 20
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 12:56:38 AM   
Mike Carroll

 

Posts: 649
Joined: 10/21/2002
Status: offline 		I totally lucked out and found a copy in the old games bin at EB games and got if for $5.00. Take 2 has it as well no problems in XP. I am currently playing three games of the WWI PBEM scenario and they are great scenario's - some of the best games I have played. There is also a new WWI strategic scenario out that has some really good honour rules and gives a much more realistic rep of the naval war. I am hoping to start a game of that soon.

If you get it and want to try the WWI I am open to playing you. I really wish Matrix would update this game! It is a classic and will be on my hard disk for many years to come.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 21
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 4:51:28 AM   
*Lava*


Posts: 1924
Joined: 2/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Carroll

I really wish Matrix would update this game! It is a classic and will be on my hard disk for many years to come.


Amen to that. Best darn wargame and editor I ever did see. It's still on my HD...

Ray (alias Lava)

< Message edited by Lava -- 8/10/2004 2:51:10 AM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 22
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 5:11:53 AM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		I am not so sure it is that it needs to be "updated", as much, as it needs a producer that actually wants it.

TOAW seems to be the offspring no one really cares about. It's available not available, on sale then mysteriously gone.

I consider myself lucky I was able to get the purchase I did when I did.

It's no more cutting edge anymore than is Steel Panthers, but just as with Steel Panthers, it was a significantly excellent game when it was released, and it went on to create numerous great secondary creations.

It needs a home an owner that genuinely wishes it to be one of the regulars.

(in reply to *Lava*)
Post #: 23
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 4:47:30 PM   
Mike Carroll

 

Posts: 649
Joined: 10/21/2002
Status: offline 		It is an excellent game. But there are a couple of tweeks that need to happen. The naval rules need to be updated abit and the air could be enhanced abit.

But you are right as far as a gaming system goes it is as good system for us old "board-gamers" as you could want.

There are small enhancements that you could want but this is a game that has grabbed and kept my attention for years. Far to many games end up coming off the computer after a couple of weeks or months.

I wish someone would take ownership and continue to develop and publish the game. This is the kind of scale I really like.

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 24
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 5:29:58 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		I have always lived by the philosophy if it is done right the first time, it is just a matter of keeping it in supply for all that weren't there on day one.

TOAW is a good example of a game that was largely done right on day one.

It is not an easy act to follow, nor an easy game to replace.

With the TOAW CoW release, I can literally play almost any well known board game from WW2 and post WW2 right through to Modern and hypothetical stright out of the box.
The fact it has oodles of user created options is just more icing.

Some say the game fails on this or that level, but really, I can't think of any wargame I have ever played that actually came out as totally absolutely 100%.

I have though, almost no need for a computer wargame, to replace large scale operational level wargames.

TOAW quite simply aced this genre. The only thing left for new producers of new wargames at the operational level, is to create programs that employ greater easier to use interfaces.

Battlefields for instance, unless this game really and truely revolutionises the experience, anyone owning TOAW is unlikely to find it worth the cash, when there is no shortage of other good wargames in other genres/scales lining up for one's money.

Thus Battlefields, will really only be a game of interest to a non TOAW CoW owning player.

Not to say that Battlefields is or will not be good. But there is only so many redundant wargames that I need :)

Same could be said of the Highway to the Reich design. They aced that game setting, and now, quite frankly, I don't see any value in wasting money on joe copy cat producer. That scale and mode clearly now belongs to that games producer.
And they earned it :)

(in reply to Mike Carroll)
Post #: 25
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 5:40:49 PM   
Mike Carroll

 

Posts: 649
Joined: 10/21/2002
Status: offline 		To some extent I have to agree. ACOW is a game that to me has really aced the operational level game. I do wish that there were some improvements. I think that there should be some way of creating a supply point in-game (beachhead at Normandy). I do think the naval portion should at least allow an "Intercept" of moving naval forces. Alot of these problems can be overcome by honour rules and a good scenario designer. There are some really excellent scenarios out there, especially for the guy looking for a game similar to SPI's "War Between the States" or SPI's old "War in Europe". This game even has a 19th century database mod and there are scenarios covering the Civil War and some other conflicts in the 19th Century. Personally I am playing 3 games of the WWI Grand Strategy (hate to say I am sick of WWII right now) and they are some of the best games I have been in - ever.

Have room for another

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 26
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 5:59:26 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		I have to date, only seen one serious contender in competition for what TOAW delivers.

Schwerpunct's (god I hate spelling that name :) ) game Russo German War, and their up coming release Allied German War.

Of course, these are counter pushing fanatic's games. I don't recommend them to people that don't get glassy eyed looking at operational scale wargames that look like board games :)

(in reply to Mike Carroll)
Post #: 27
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 6:09:37 PM   
Ludovic Coval

 

Posts: 2155
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Toulon, France
Status: offline 		Hexed Gamer,

I played both TOAW and BF (and eventually wrote the second too ) Both games cover similar era (at least TOAW vol I), looks like the same but one is IGO-UGO and other WEGO, thus BF emphasize more the planification aspect. This turn both games to call for differents gaming approachs (beta shown clearly that usual TOAW strategies/tactics simply dont work).

LC

(in reply to Mike Carroll)
Post #: 28
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 6:34:43 PM   
AlvinS

 

Posts: 665
Joined: 12/2/2000
From: O'Fallon, Missouri
Status: offline 		I have the original TOAW Vol 1 and it runs fine on my XP machine. Is it just the later versions that have trouble on XP? Because I have considere buying COW if I ever find it in a discount bin somewhere. If it does not run I will not bother.

I love the original TOAW and still play it, although not as much since I bought WITP.

_____________________________

"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." ---Mark Twain

Naval Warfare Simulations

AlvinS

(in reply to Ludovic Coval)
Post #: 29
RE: TOAW COW - 8/10/2004 6:39:33 PM   
Mike Carroll

 

Posts: 649
Joined: 10/21/2002
Status: offline 		Have not heard of Russo German War, guess I will have to search it out and see what it looks like. I will probably look at Battlefields, but I think it is a different scale. There is some talk on some of the Boards about Battlefields finally killing TOAW. But I doubt it, it offers games at a smaller scale than alot of the games I am playing in TOAW.

I tend to like games at the Brigade/Division level with 10 to 50 km hexes and roughly weekly turns. This is at the upper end of TOAW's scale, but it does a really good job with it. And of course it can go much lower.

I have WITP and it is a massive game and works well for the theatre, but I just do not see how you could realistically play a PBEM to conclusion. - Daily turns! I enjoy computer games but I also have a life. Well I will probably try playing it anyway

In my WWI TOAW games we do one or two turns a week and the turns take between 2 to 8 hours to complete (It is a massive scenario in its own right). But at a couple of turns a week we have a reasonable chance of getting done in a couple of years - and still be able to do other things.

(in reply to Ludovic Coval)
Post #: 30
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