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A flying insect,. Maybe a wasp....:(

 
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A flying insect,. Maybe a wasp....:( - 2/5/2002 8:16:00 AM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline 		This seems like a very annoying one: Playing US Army vs Japan - Set.1944 in a PBEM. v7.0 both of us. My opponent is player 1 - USA. He plays the first turn. I watch the VCR playback - not a single message. Nothing in the Combat.log file too. I noticed I had some casualties and surpressed troops, also noticed by the amount of smoke in his back lines that he probably pre-bombarded and then made a normal bombardment. I play my 1st turn and made some bombardements delayed for the end of my opponents turn (0.4 delay). My opponent sends me his turn and tells me that he saw my bombardements. Nothing in the VCR playback again but this time he didn't fired his artillery. Nothing in the log file. I'm beginning to play my 2nd turn when I noticed several US crashed gliders in my back lines. Now I wonder: - Did he bombarded once or twice in the first turn?
- When did he send the gliders and how many? All I see is the crashed ones...
- Did he also made airdrops? It sems he can see all the artillery, gliders and drops animations. But I don't...
This seems like a reasonable large and annoying insect to me. Anybody noticed this before.?


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- 2/5/2002 8:31:00 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
This seems like a very annoying one: Playing US Army vs Japan - Set.1944 in a PBEM. v7.0 both of us. My opponent is player 1 - USA. He plays the first turn. I watch the VCR playback - not a single message. Nothing in the Combat.log file too. I noticed I had some casualties and surpressed troops, also noticed by the amount of smoke in his back lines that he probably pre-bombarded and then made a normal bombardment. I play my 1st turn and made some bombardements delayed for the end of my opponents turn (0.4 delay). My opponent sends me his turn and tells me that he saw my bombardements. Nothing in the VCR playback again but this time he didn't fired his artillery. Nothing in the log file. I'm beginning to play my 2nd turn when I noticed several US crashed gliders in my back lines. Now I wonder: - Did he bombarded once or twice in the first turn?
- When did he send the gliders and how many? All I see is the crashed ones...
- Did he also made airdrops? It sems he can see all the artillery, gliders and drops animations. But I don't...
This seems like a reasonable large and annoying insect to me. Anybody noticed this before.?
There was something about this sort of occurance in the SPWW2 mailing list. The second player doesn't get to see the player 1 pre-bombardment actions. Since with SPWAW you can paradrop and glider assault as well, you can slip quite a bit past the second player. There have been players who complain that if they plot paradrops and bombardments for turn 0, the bombardment gets shifted to the airdrop location, so your opponent may have shot himself in the foot doing it.
thanks, John.

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- 2/5/2002 8:31:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi Medoc Ric, I gave up PBEM games after one in where I was Russian versus German 1943. VCR playback never showed me a thing. On first turn I moved my units finding nothing. I recieved turn two and the map was on fire. Half my infantry was dead or routed and several T-34's burning and several more retreating. I still could see no Germans so had no clue what had occured. I managed to rally a unit here and there and turned them around I still saw nothing. Turn three arrives, the little bit of map on my side that had not caught fire on turn 2 was now ablaze. I could not find most of my units so I called for reinforcments, but they would not arrive for several turns. I observed the victory hexes had all changed to German except for the rear area (this was a 3k meeting engagement) I still had my HQ a platoon of infantry 1 AT gun and 2 MG's all deployed near this area. Turn four the battle is over. From first to last I never saw a German unit and can't say how or what killed mine. I gave up PBEM battles and only play hotseat or online ones now. (where I at least know what is killing me) [ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]



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Post #: 3
- 2/5/2002 8:38:00 AM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Mogami:
Hi Medoc Ric, I gave up PBEM games after one in where I was Russian versus German 1943. VCR playback never showed me a thing. On first turn I moved my units finding nothing. I recieved turn two and the map was on fire. Half my infantry was dead or routed and several T-34's burning and several more retreating. I still could see no Germans so had no clue what had occured. I managed to rally a unit here and there and turned them around I still saw nothing. Turn three arrives, the little bit of map on my side that had not caught fire on turn 2 was now ablaze. I could not find most of my units so I called for reinforcments, but they would not arrive for several turns. I observed the victory hexes had all changed to German except for the rear area (this was a 3k meeting engagement) I still had my HQ a platoon of infantry 1 AT gun and 2 MG's all deployed near this area. Turn four the battle is over. From first to last I never saw a German unit and can't say how or what killed mine. I gave up PBEM battles and only play hotseat or online ones now. (where I at least know what is killing me) [ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: Mogami ]
What version did you have at the time, Mogami? BTW: no Medoc wine in here but I can offer you a nice glass of Port . [ February 04, 2002: Message edited by: RichardTheFirst ]



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- 2/5/2002 8:49:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi. Medoc Ric was what the Saracens called Richard I. I know that matrix fixed the vcr thing but I have never been able to 'gear up' enough to do another. For one thing I have a problem with tactical games involving delays between turns (I lose the thread of the battle and forget important details) Games like Pac War and WIR I don't mind (but I always seem to find players who whip out 5-6 turns a day of Pac War and 1 a week of SPWaW) I relish the game in the online enviorment. (Tankhead and I always also hook up via Roger Wilco) I did a half dozen or so battles PBEM during the very first combat net contest. They all were disasters for me. (This was prior to the vcr fix) Just as I can not stand the smell or taste of Schnapps(sic) because of a bad experiance many years ago, the thought of PBEM SPWaW makes me sick to my stomach.

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Post #: 5
- 2/5/2002 12:12:00 PM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline 		I made some tests with the battle generator, assigning paras and gliders for turn 0 and it worked fine. But then again it wasn't really a test because the problem is in human vs human games.... The only way to have a conclusive simulation is sending a PBEM game to somebody...

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- 2/5/2002 9:48:00 PM   
Svennemir

 

Posts: 542
Joined: 11/2/2001
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Actually I think I have the solution. Make your opponent turn Fast Artillery OFF. I'm not 100% sure that it works, rather somewhere around 90%. I guess that Mogami's experience can be described by:
Wurfrahmen with Flame rockets (burning map!) + Ammu dumps (VERY unrealistic combo that should be banned IMHO). Objectives taken by fast armoured cars, and paratroopers or SpecOps infintrators on the rear ones. I suppose it was a meeting engagement - and in that case it is not realistic to know exactly the enemy Deploy Borders - wherefor a preplanned bombardment against the Borders would also be unrealistic. I would say, Mogami, that your opponent was probably "gaming the system" a bit. He might as well have used 2500 points on Wurfrahmen Lauchers and Ammo Dumps. Time to negotiate battle conditions!

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- 2/6/2002 12:11:00 AM   
brianleeprice

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 10/5/2001
Status: offline 		One thing I've come to really like about the spwaw irc channel in its short existence thus far, is that since you come to know your opponents a bit and will be hopefully interacting with them for some time to come, many of the more 'gamier' aspects tend to not be used. We've been using a variety of different methods to negotiate settings and sometimes forces. One that seems particularly interesting is the use of Grasse's Scenario and Battle Guideline Generator program - the program was written for use with earlier versions thus the points need adjusted but the recommendations it gives for core forces seem to lead to very interesting battles. I haven't run in to this particular problem in either online or pbem games that have started from irc thus far. Perhaps I've just been lucky. Hrrmm.. although.. I do vaugely remember having it at one point. I do agree with Svennemir on the use of preplanned bombardment in meeting engagements but that is something that really the players need to negotiate. Registered targets make sense in that case, but part of the point of a meeting engagement is that you don't know enemy positions in general, just that they are in the area. On the other hand, one way you could look at the starting lines in a meeting engagements is a combination of the limits of your and your enemy's movements based on preliminary scouting reports. Thus it identifies an area where you are pretty sure the enemy has not yet reached and an area where they might have. Of course, if preplanned bombardments are in use for a meeting engagement, they are pretty easy to defeat if your force has any mobility whatsoever - just deploy your forces back a bit from the line and choose the second or third best locations rather than the obvious best locations. Massive stacked artillery on top of multiple stacked ammo dumps is pretty darn gamey imo unless you're playing out an attack against a firebase. But there are some counters if you expect your opponent to possibly use that approach - one would be to drop a number of recon teams via paradrop and use some nice heavy offboard artillery to obliterate the firebase once located. Such a counter should leave you with quite a few points left for a highly mobile force that, even after bombardment, should be superior to what the stacker has. Hope this helps,
Brian

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- 2/6/2002 12:32:00 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Fast Arty OFF is essential for VCR playback.
both players must have it off.

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Post #: 9
- 2/6/2002 12:39:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Brian Price:

Of course, if preplanned bombardments are in use for a meeting engagement, they are pretty easy to defeat if your force has any mobility whatsoever - just deploy your forces back a bit from the line and choose the second or third best locations rather than the obvious best locations.

This is exactly what US doctrine calls for, not using the most obvious terrain.
Any force, mobile or not, would pre-plan arty along its route of advance, on its objective, beyond its objective and on routes of advance and withdrawal without regard to where the enemy is, just in case they pop up unexpectedly. This is justification for allowing preplots in meeting engagements.

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Post #: 10
- 2/6/2002 2:03:00 AM   
Fuerte

 

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/14/2000
From: Helsinki Finland
Status: offline 		I think that there are three issues here... 1) Fast Artillery must be OFF (I don't understand why there even is a setting for that). 2) The first turn (after setup) movie playback won't work. So you don't see preregistered artillery or airplane attacks. 3) The key for viewing the replay is Alt+V, not V as it is said in the F1 help.

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- 2/6/2002 2:41:00 AM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline 		Thanks for the advises. I'll make sure we have Fast Art. OFF

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Post #: 12
- 2/6/2002 6:06:00 AM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline 		GRRRRRRRR My opponent is using all sorts of tricks:
- I can't see the bombardements, gliders and drops at the end of his tun
- He used smoke to mask his artillery and I didn't see
- I suspect he sent empty gliders just as a diversion manouver I guess war is a dirty business but not I'm pissed and even more motivated to win ...(emoticon for a vampiric smile).

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Post #: 13
- 2/6/2002 6:11:00 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hello, Wurferman, I hate stinking Wurferman
I played a online battle I was Soviet versus German July 1943 5k points meeting engagement. The German force was nothing but Tigers and Wurfermen sitting on ammo trucks (not dumps)
Well to be honest he did have several MG loaded on a few Tigers but no infantry squads. My force was mostly straight leg infantry with a platoon of T-34 for every infantry company. 1 btry of 122mm for each company. blah blah blah boring normal troops. (no guards/paras/KV's)(The T-34s did have Tankod's riding on them) and oh yes, since this battle followed directly after one where Tankhead indroduced me to infiltration tactics I had several of those cheap partisans bands.) German moves first I see all the victory hexes in 3 center areas turn German (Hey would'nt you know it-I notice that the VH in center are all per turn points award. So now it is not a meeting engagement anymore. The German is on the objective area all he has to do now is defend while I am forced into assault mode. Those awfull Wurferman start raining rockets down in a constant barrage. They are mobile and the ammo trucks too so they move a bit every other turn. Fortune smiled on however as my partisans appear around turn 7 or 8 (out of 20) and they are right next to a pile of Wurferman an ammo trucks, as soon as they start firing up the ammo trucks et-al the connection (which has be solid all day with no problem is lost-hmmmm seems it was not my connection but my noble opponents, guess what buddy I have been saving game every turn, buddy? hey where are you? come back here you rat.....

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Post #: 14
- 2/6/2002 11:34:00 AM   
RichardTheFirst

 

Posts: 466
Joined: 10/17/2001
From: Algés, Lisbon - Portugal
Status: offline 		Ugh Mogami, !"#$&/&()# opponent. There are a few like that over there, thank god none played with me (so far). That story reminds me when I landed a 8 inch american shell right in the middle of a german ammo dump. Guess what was in the same hex as the dump? 8 pretty Wurfhramers. Guess what happened to them? I guess I'm not going to have another shot like that in my lifetime...

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