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Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases

 
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Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 4:11:13 AM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		I am currently playing the US in the tutorial scenario. I am trying to take saipan, but I have not had much success, and the manual really does not do a good job in explaining in how to accomplish this.

Turn 1: 3 TFs of transports + one TF air combat to provide air support, set to mission speed head out toward Saipan
2 TFs of air combat (each has 3 carriers) head out toware Saipan
3 TFs of battleships and destroyers to bombard Saipan head out, will arrive first
1 TF of submarines, which will later be broken up and assigned to their own TF when they reach Saipan (Tutorial says to do this)
Transfer B-29 squadron to the other small island (can not remember name)
2 squadrons of B-29's are set to attack the airfield at Saipan


What has ended up happening is the B-29s pound Saipan for about 3 turns destroying planes on the ground and taking out some enemy soldiers but not really taking out any cd guns.
My 3 TF's to bombard Saipan arrive cause some casualties, destroy some cd guns but still are a lot left. And usualy lose 1 DD per TF from the cd guns
My 2 TF's of air combat arrive and clear out an remaining fighters and bombers from the two southern islands
My 3 TF's of transports arrive and start their amphibious assualt, usually getting hammered by the cd guns, thus usually losing 500 or more casualties and having a lot of the support craft getting sunk.

I have tried using the carrier plans to perform ground attacks, but it seems that those planes get eaten up too much, considering the amount of damage they do, or lack there of.

There is about 50K of Japanese troops on Saipan, and my troops are usually low in the support area, usually the number being pink.

If anyone can help me, or let me know what steps you guys take when doing an amphibious assualt I would appreciate it. Thanks

< Message edited by SunDevil -- 7/10/2004 2:16:04 AM >
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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 4:23:56 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Set some of your aircraft to port attack, that should help a bit more with the CD guns. Also, you want your BB's squatting offshore when your invasion TF's unload. Saipan will be hard no matter what, so as long as you don't get thrown off the beach and are making some progress in your assaults, you're doing good.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 4:29:18 AM   
W Thorne


Posts: 1639
Joined: 2/28/2003
From: Houston
Status: offline 		Well I'm new to this game but this is what I'm trying.

Bomb the h3ll out of the CD guns. 3 carrier task force are set to Port attack (takes out the CD guns). I have one bombardment task force, 4 BB 3 CA and 3 Cl no DD bombing the port defenses.

First attacking wave was two Marine Divisions and one HQ group. The second wave is another Marine Division with two Marine Armor units. A supply task force is right behind these two waves.

So far I'm about 3 days into my attack. Let you know how I fair.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 4:33:40 AM   
siRkid


Posts: 6650
Joined: 1/29/2002
From: Orland FL
Status: offline 		The tutorial was written to show you how to operate the game. I never put any real though into how to take Sapian, so don't look to it for tactical advice.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 4:35:56 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: W Thorne

Well I'm new to this game but this is what I'm trying.

Bomb the h3ll out of the CD guns. 3 carrier task force are set to Port attack (takes out the CD guns). I have one bombardment task force, 4 BB 3 CA and 3 Cl no DD bombing the port defenses.

First attacking wave was two Marine Divisions and one HQ group. The second wave is another Marine Division with two Marine Armor units. A supply task force is right behind these two waves.

So far I'm about 3 days into my attack. Let you know how I fair.


You should eventually win with that approach. You did it right and explained it better than me as well.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 5:33:55 AM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		Which is my whole point. There is no where that I have seen in the documentation that comes with game about any tactical advice.
I am sure that many people who are playing this game have experience with UV or other games, but from me personally who did not play UV, trying to find some tactics that can at least get you going in the right direction seems to be hard to find. I just had the japanese show up with 2 TFs to Saipan. One containing 5 BB's and another having 4 CA's and 6 DD's. I had all my carrier plans set for naval attack, so I put some hurt down on some of the BB's, but even with my own BB's who had their sea planes out patrolling around, I never saw these two fleets coming. Also, the 2 japanese TF's decided to also attack my boarding craft along Saipan (which I have not figured out whether I am suppose to keep them their, because they keep unloading on Saipan for each turn for some reason, or do I send them back to my home port to bring more troops or supplies?) So now I have hurting BB's between the CD's hitting them during bombards and the 2 newly arrived Japanese TF's this invasion is turning into a disaster. So if someone could let me know what are some of their tactics in taking enemy bases and also if I should first focus on some of the weaker, lesser defender bases first, I would appreciate it.

I like this game a lot, but its very confusing when the people who write the manual and the tutorial assume you have already played UV. And with paying $70 already, I really do not feel like paying another $50 for that game.

/End Rant... ok I feel better now :)

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Post #: 6
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 5:48:57 AM   
W Thorne


Posts: 1639
Joined: 2/28/2003
From: Houston
Status: offline 		I never played UV either so I'm just trying to apply basic military tactics to my attack. Below is a pix of where I am about 6/18/44.

My plan is to hit Saipan then Guam and Tinian. You don't really have time to start small and build up. So far I have not seen an IJN task force.

Your transport TFs won't leave the island till everything is unloaded. IMO the trick to capturing the islands is to overwhelm the Japs.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:02:10 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		Can anyone let me know how to do amphibious assualts without my landing craft taking so many losses from the japanese cd's?
Like I mentioned above I am using bombardment tactics with my BB,CA,DD fleets, and using the B-29 to attack the port, but whenever my landing craft land to put people on shore, they get hammered and I get at least 500 casualties.

< Message edited by SunDevil -- 7/10/2004 7:06:48 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:17:32 PM   
geozero


Posts: 1886
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		SunDevil,

you may want to modify your tactical approach first.

I would suggest that your landing force backoff so it doesn't get destroyed, then assign as large a bombardment TF as possible to attack and destroy the CD's and other shore installations that will cause problem to your landings.

You may want to use as many aircraft as possible also, particularly B-17's or other bombers do very well with ground targets. Smaller fighter/bombers can target CD's or other ground troops.

You may need to bombard that way a few days, THEN send in the landing force. Hopefully you will find less resistance.

BTW - this is not a UV strategy, just a common sense approach to a tactical situation you are describing. Never send in troops SIMULTANEOUSLY with shore bombardment. You may also get friendly fire casualties that way.

Hope this helps...keep us posted.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:33:05 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		I had set up three Bombardment TF's, as described in the tutorial manual that comes with this game. The first bombardment TF's were set for retirement allowed, so they would attack at night, the last TF was set to attack and then stay at the island. I then used two squadrons of B-29 to attack the airfield the first two turns, and then focused on attacking port facilities to increase the destruction of CDs. I then also put out the Air combat TF's for a total of 6 CV's whose planes attack the port to lessen CDs.
So the first four turns is just the Bombardment TF's attacking and the CV's getting into range and then sending out planes. By the fifth turn my transports start showing up, and then is where my landing craft get hammered, and my casualities just start mounting. For the next four turns after that the DD's that are in the last Bombardment TF get hammered, with my BB's and CA's on fire, with my landing craft which are still unloading troops or supplies getting hammered everytime they come to shore. I am still pounding the port of Saipan, but there is still 120 CD's left even with 9 to 10 turns of just pounding the island. I have about 14,000 troops on the island but with over 50K of japanese troops, I do not know how I am going to get the 2 to 1 odds people have been talking about. Any more tips or advice would help a lot.

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Post #: 10
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:41:20 PM   
geozero


Posts: 1886
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		SunDevil,

It sounds like your attack was well planned, but...

...the island may be too well defended. Perhaps you should bypass it, and setup Subs to destroy reinforcement and supplies. This may take weeks or months, with an oocassional TF to bombard.

The real United States WW2 Pacific amph. doctrines called for something like an 8:1 to 10:1 ratio in troops attacking defenders AFAIK.

It sounds that if there are 50k defenders your force of a mere 14k will not be enough. You will need 100's of thousands. That is why many islands were bypassed or not attacked directly for months. Also why the U.S. had no choice in droppin atomic bomb, can't imagine what landing in Japan would have been like.

What turn are you on? The U.S. player should not be attempting major offensives like the one you describe until later 1942 or well into 1943 at the very least.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:45:29 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		The funny thing is, is that this is the Tutorial scenario, where you learn about the game, and the tutorial manual that comes with this game, sets the player up to invade Saipan. :)

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Post #: 12
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:47:47 PM   
geozero


Posts: 1886
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Kid has already written in this forum that the Saipan tutorial is just that - - - a tutorial.

It was not meant to be sound tactical advice, and in fact it is not.

I would not attempt taking Saipan until around 1943-44.

Learn from the tutorials the "mechanics" of the game and the system, but forget the tactics.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 9:49:29 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		The tutorial itself is set at June 8th, 1944....... :)

If you get a chance take a look at the tutorial scenario and let me know what you think.

< Message edited by SunDevil -- 7/10/2004 7:50:49 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:09:50 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

The tutorial itself is set at June 8th, 1944....... :)

If you get a chance take a look at the tutorial scenario and let me know what you think.


The time period isn't as important as the fact that Kid didn't place enough force at your disposal to take it.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:13:09 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		So are you saying for the last 5 days I have been playing this tutorial over and over again because I thought I sucked because I couldn't take Saipan, (which I thought was necessary to do before going over to other scenarios), and in reality I need more resources in order to take it? :) Has anyone been able to take Saipan in this tutorial scenario? And if so, what was your strategy?

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:22:08 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

So are you saying for the last 5 days I have been playing this tutorial over and over again because I thought I sucked because I couldn't take Saipan, (which I thought was necessary to do before going over to other scenarios), and in reality I need more resources in order to take it? :) Has anyone been able to take Saipan in this tutorial scenario? And if so, what was your strategy?


It's too bad you thought that, as I never bothered with the tutorial, thought I might still. I'm obviously not saying that I believe you don't have enough resources (since I haev;t tried it mayself), or that anyone was deliberately trying to fool you, but that the consensus seems to be that he just placed a few units there to get you the feel of it. Don't forget that the most important lessons learned are the ones that fail. If he gives you the force to take it with relative ease he probably does you a greater disservice than what you seem to be thinking. From my years wargaming, I can't recall a single title that required you to achieve the goal of the tutorial in order to graduate to the real scenarios or campaigns, but I've known a few RTS's that have done that.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:28:12 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Play scenario 6 (Marianas), not the tutorial. The tutorial is aimed at learning the interface, not game play. It has the AI setup gutted.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:34:39 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		I did not mean to come off angry...:) Just that this is the first game that I have played from Gary. I have played a lot with Steel Panthers and other war games. I guess I am just use to playing the tutorial and being successful at it, and then moving on. In another post someone did mention that they focused on taking Saipan before moving onto other scenarios. I can see that Kid did put time and effort into creating and then documenting the Tutorial scenario, so thank you for all your hard work. I guess what I am most surprised about the documentation in this game is between the 220 pages in the manual and the 66 pages for the tutorial, tactics and strategy is really not covered in either. Thank you everyone for the help and the advice. I guess its off to scenario 6. :)
I really think this community that plays this game is great though.

< Message edited by SunDevil -- 7/10/2004 8:36:11 PM >

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:35:51 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Make sure you run at Hard AI level, not Historic

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:36:49 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		I am waiting to beat the AI first before I give them any help with difficulty level :)

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/10/2004 10:38:22 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

I am waiting to beat the AI first before I give them any help with difficulty level :)


You'll have more fun. Trust me.

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/11/2004 2:55:49 AM   
W Thorne


Posts: 1639
Joined: 2/28/2003
From: Houston
Status: offline 		SunDevil this was taken from another thread. This is probably why you are seeing so much destruction on Saipan.

quote:

Atoll combat was changed so that landing units go immediately into a full fledged shock attack and combat in this respect will be very quick and very bloody. (with great potential for disaster unless the player on the offensive plans carefully and coordinates his landings)


Go to this thread for the whole dissuasion.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=655331

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/11/2004 3:05:07 AM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		Thanks for the post W Thorne, but Saipan is not listed as an atoll in the scenario, so its not that. The most damage I am seeing are the bombardments made by my TF's and with my landing vehicles when they drop off troops, they get hammered by all the CD's. Thanks also for the forum post, I made an appearance in that thread too. :)

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Post #: 24
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/13/2004 7:35:03 PM   
donkuchi19


Posts: 1062
Joined: 3/14/2004
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		I was able to take Saipan eventually by Mid July. I kept sending bombardment TF, B-29's and then additional troops. The japs were still on the island but I was in control of the base.

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Post #: 25
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/13/2004 8:39:51 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		to counter CD guns, you have to include medium and heavy ships within the amphibious assault TF.

If they are in bombardment TF's they will not be able to protect the transports and LCI's from the CD guns. (unless you bombard them for weeks till they are disabled)

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/13/2004 11:44:41 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		Yea,

I was being stupid, I have played the tutorial about 20 times now, it really helps to play this scenario mulitple times, I have easily captured Saipan, and really putting the hurt on the Japanese. Thanks for everyones help.

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Post #: 27
RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 7/14/2004 12:16:21 AM   
geozero


Posts: 1886
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Southern California, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Good to hear... play on!

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 8/18/2004 3:47:55 PM   
russkly

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 7/27/2004
Status: offline 		...so how d'ya do it, SunDevil?

I'm 2 days into the landings, which seem to be going ok, but I've got no idea what the supply situation is, and lots of my ships appear to have left TFs of their own accord and are heading home!

Appreciate any help.

R

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RE: Amphibious Assualts and taking enemy bases - 8/18/2004 7:57:51 PM   
SunDevil_MatrixForum

 

Posts: 783
Joined: 6/13/2001
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline 		Half way down the page, there are links. Some of these links will answer your question.

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp%3Fm%3D677926

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