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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names

 
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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 2:34:47 PM   
barbarrossa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waynec

otoh we have an ffg named after samuel b roberts (a de of leyte gulf fame) that ate an exocet in the gulf during the tanker war battles.



That was actually USS Stark. She was on the pier next to us at Ingalls shipyard being repaired after the exocet incident when we were refitting Wisconsin in '88.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 3:19:25 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarrossa

quote:

ORIGINAL: waynec

otoh we have an ffg named after samuel b roberts (a de of leyte gulf fame) that ate an exocet in the gulf during the tanker war battles.



That was actually USS Stark. She was on the pier next to us at Ingalls shipyard being repaired after the exocet incident when we were refitting Wisconsin in '88.

Samuel B Roberts was mined in the gulf, IIRC. That report should please Damien Thorn

Exocets always remind me of an Aerospatiale ad I used to see in AFJ back in the early 80s. They were plugging Exocet, and for the photo in their ad selected one of HMS Sheffield, listing and burning. The view was from above and astern so it was not easy to tell what ship it was. But hey, that was one of Exocet's finest hours....

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 3:32:15 PM   
2Stepper


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Sort of funny reading through this thread how whenever the ENTERPRISE name comes up people usually think the "Big E" with the saucer section and warp drive. LOL! Theres SO MUCH history with that ship and ship name. The navy obviously loved her. They built the first Nuclear Carrier and named her "Enterpise" and the first shuttle was named that as well.

Some of the politician named ships have their merits. I don't mind them as much, though to be fair, I'm surprised we didn't go back to that original naming convention for them. Why not have this?

CVN Lexington, CVN Saratoga, CVN Yorktown, CVN Hornet, CVN Wasp, CVN Enterprise

Works for me.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 3:35:32 PM   
Belisarius


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Well, uh, technically only Enterprise is a "CVN", right? The others are CVs....


Btw, where does the name "Kitty Hawk" come from? I guess a trip to navy.mil would reveal some answers but I'm too lazy. Civil War?

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 3:36:35 PM   
strawbuk


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Kitty Hawk - wright brothers?

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 3:38:43 PM   
2Stepper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

Well, uh, technically only Enterprise is a "CVN", right? The others are CVs....


Btw, where does the name "Kitty Hawk" come from? I guess a trip to navy.mil would reveal some answers but I'm too lazy. Civil War?


The other names were just suggestions. I personally wouldn't mind seeing them, but yes, CVN Enterprise is the only one of the lot that exists. As to Kitty Hawk, she was named after the location of the first air flight of the Wright Brothers which actually follows the older traditions of famous locations or battles.

EDIT: On a sort of "side-bar" to the "Big E" of today, she's still in service with the USN and is getting ready to go out again and has been in service since 1960. From what I've read about the Nuclear Carriers, I understand they have a life expectency of around 50yrs. Least in terms of how long the plant is expected to last and run safely. Perhaps longer, but 50 seems standard. So I think we can expect to see the "Big E" for the rest of this decade and into the next perhaps. I may be a "wingnut" by trade, but I do love navy history.

< Message edited by 2Stepper -- 8/19/2004 7:46:23 AM >


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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 4:21:33 PM   
Belisarius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper
EDIT: On a sort of "side-bar" to the "Big E" of today, she's still in service with the USN and is getting ready to go out again and has been in service since 1960. From what I've read about the Nuclear Carriers, I understand they have a life expectency of around 50yrs. Least in terms of how long the plant is expected to last and run safely. Perhaps longer, but 50 seems standard. So I think we can expect to see the "Big E" for the rest of this decade and into the next perhaps. I may be a "wingnut" by trade, but I do love navy history.



The Big "E" is still one of the best carriers in the USN. She's probably the most powerful, with 8 reactors compared to 2 in the Nimitz' class, albeit they might have higher output/reactor. (Same engineering approach as the Empire State building, really - didn't have any references, so better safe than sorry. 8 reactors are overkill for carrier purposes, but they didn't know that) I think she's the fastest too, since she's longer and narrower than Nimitz.

We'll see her on the high seas for at least 2 more decades. I doubt they'll retire her before Kitty Hawk or JFK. The only reason could be that having a non-nuclear CV is beneficial for operations in friendly, but nuclear off-limit, waters. Like Japan.

Btw, another impressive age has got to be the B-52s. How many remain, they're about 90 left in active service I think? Most of them are over 50 years old and will be closer to 100 when they are finally decomissioned!

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:01:12 PM   
malloc

 

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Remember that Lexington and Saratoga followed were laid down as cruisers and changed to Carriers due to the Washington Treaty.
The names are carryovers from their origins.

the other WWII Carriers were name after older ships. It wasn't until much later that the US decided carries would be named after Ex- Pres.

-M

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:19:01 PM   
2Stepper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

The Big "E" is still one of the best carriers in the USN. She's probably the most powerful, with 8 reactors compared to 2 in the Nimitz' class, albeit they might have higher output/reactor. (Same engineering approach as the Empire State building, really - didn't have any references, so better safe than sorry. 8 reactors are overkill for carrier purposes, but they didn't know that) I think she's the fastest too, since she's longer and narrower than Nimitz.


I suspect you're right about the JFK and the KHawk. They're fine Diesel powered carriers to be sure, but they don't have the staying power that the Big E does. And that 50yr mark? It's a benchmark that I read on a background site of the Nimitz class. You maybe right about Enterprise. With 8 plants on board she may well be around for some time yet. Something that wouldn't bother this "Enterprise" fan in the least...

Do I shelter the Big E, in WiTP? Naw, I put her in the mix with the rest... But the couple times that she's been sunk in UV have always been a downer and I'm sure the same will be true in WiTP. Be curious to see if she's redesignated an Essex class for later deployment if that happens.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:30:52 PM   
UncleBuck

 

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Kitty Hawk
CV-63 29 Apr 1961 Active, Named for the place of the first heavier than air flight.
Constellation
CV-64 27 Oct 1961 Decom. 7 Aug. 2003 Towed 12 September 2003, to be placed in inactive reserve in the Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility (NISMF), Bremerton, Wash.
Enterprise (Mobile Chernobyl-un-offical nickname)
CVN-65 25 Nov 1961 Active; Named after a long line of USN warships.
America
CV-66 23 Jan 1965 DECOM. 9 Aug 1996 Stricken from Navy List; In the Naval Inactive Ship Maintenance Facility (NISMF), Philadelphia, Penn. To be scrapped. Named as one of the NEW type carriers, proposed sister ship was United States

John F. Kennedy CV-67 7 Sep 1968 — Active; Named for an Assainated President and former Naval officer.

Nimitz CVN-68 3 May 1975 Active In this Forum I should not have to say a word. This was the first of a new class and the only curreent build class of Nuclear Carrier.
Dwight D. Eisenhower CVN-69 18 Oct 1977 — Active- Ex-President and First Leader of the Cold War. Former CINCSHAEF.
Carl Vinson CVN-70 13 Mar 1982 — Active-Congressman who worked tirelessly to expand and modernize the USN Beginning in the 1930’s. Trivia the CAG Plane on the Chuck Boat is named Ms. Molly for his Secretary. This boat was built during teh Carter administration and was built from spare parts out of the Navy storage yard. I have seen fittings that have the Name Oriskany and Bonhome Richard on them.
Theodore Roosevelt CVN71 25 Oct 1986 — Active- Hero of Spanish American War, and Former Sec. Nav. Also Built the Great White Fleet and was staunch proponent of the Navy..
Abraham Lincoln CVN-72 11 Nov 1989 Active- President during the darkest hours of our Country.
George Washington CVN-73 4 July 1992 Active -First U.S. President, proponent for a Navy, Was President when USN was officially named.
John C. Stennis CVN-74 9 Dec 1995 Active- It was due to his work with the Armed Services committee (1969-1980) that he became known as the "Father of America's Modern Navy."

Harry S. Truman CVN-75 25 July 1998 Active Was the President at the End of WWII. Resisted the drive of Congress to reduce the Navy to what he called an unsafe level.
Ronald Reagan CVN-76 12 July 2003 Active Revived the Military from a very sad state beginning in 1981, was the driving force to increasing the USN from a 187 ship Navy to 500 ship Navy. Introduced many plans to Modernize and truly implement the Volunteer force..
George H. W. Bush CVN-77 To be Built. Ex-President, and former Naval Aviator. Budgeted and proposed the building of the last 6 carriers.

The Tradition of Naming warships for Famous Basttles has been passed to the more numerous Cruiser group. Famous Military Figures are named with Destroyers. I.e. Arliegh Burke class of DDG. Submarines , the Boomers (missle boats) took up for the Battleships as for State Names (Kentucky, New York, Alabama etc.) Attack boats took up the old job of being named for cities, this used ot be Cruiser names- St. Louis, La Jolla, San Diego.

The Army guys do nto usually get named for SHips, but some USNS are named for them, Houge, and Anderson both MPF ships I have been on. The Army guys get stuff like tanks named for them. M1A Abrams Heavy Battle Tank named for General Abrams, The T-48 Patton, the T-26 Pershing, Bradley Fighting Vehicle (he was teh G.I. general so a troop transport) and many other items.

The Airforce is the only branch that I know of that names stuff regularly after animals. They Name War planes after winged hunters for fighters- Falcon, Eagle. The Helocopters are named for Native American (Indian) tribes. UH-1 Iraquois, AH-64 Apache, the Comanche wich got canceled, OH-58 Kiowa, UH-60 Blackhawk, and CH-47 Chinook. These just name a few. On a side note, many people have thier panties in a bunch over these names. I find it very strange that these people are upset since teh U.S> Military has chosen to honor a former foe, with these names. The idea behind this was that the American indians were fierce, strong and noble fighters. They were the best light cavalry in the world at the time. The Helocopter is the modern equivlent of that light cavalry. Anyway. I beleive that the Nameing conventions for the US military are not very political. To gt your name on somehting you had to have done something very important for the service they are naming somehting for you.

Oh and some past things for names brought up. IN ww2 we had a Grant tank named for U.S. Grant, and a sister tank called the Lee. The M-5 tank was named for J.E.B. Stuart General CSA, was one of the best light tanks of teh war, the Brits called them the "Honey". The M-4 Sherman was named for Gen. Sherman of the Civil war, and his push to the sea. So all in all I think the Army gets it's fair share in the community it should.

Oh I forgot, there are a group of Carreir type ships that were named for Battles, that is teh LHA class they were named for famous Marine battles, Tarawa, and Iwo Jima were two that I serviced when I was in the Navy. They are now being replaced by LHD's which are getting the old CV names, The Boxer, and Essex are here in San Diego.

UB

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:31:25 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

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The name I'd like to see restored to the list is the USS England. After knocking off
6 or 7 Japanese submarines in nine days, some Admiral said "There will always be an
England in the US Navy." Be a good name for an ASW Frigate..., and the "all-time"
kill record deserves comemoration.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:38:10 PM   
UncleBuck

 

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Well if you feel that way about it. http://www.ussengland.net/DE635/ They have a place to sign a petition to get teh England back on teh seas in a new Ship name. I have a buddy here at work that was on the England and I met him when I was in the Navy doing Calibration work for his boat.

UB

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:44:29 PM   
Williamb

 

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How do you feel about the USS Winston Churchill ?

The only US ship named after a non US citizen.

Personally think was a good choice.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:46:41 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

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Thanks for the site info. That's a letter worth writing.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 5:55:27 PM   
UncleBuck

 

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Teh USS winston Churchill is nto the first warship named after a Non-US citizen. The USS Laffyette was named after a French General from teh Revolutionary war.

UB

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 6:11:56 PM   
vonmoltke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: William Amos

How do you feel about the USS Winston Churchill ?

The only US ship named after a non US citizen.

Personally think was a good choice.

Actually, it isn't. There is also USS Compte De Grasse (DD 974). Dunno if he counts as an American or not, but there is the USS Casimir Pulaski (SSBN 633).

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 7:01:07 PM   
MengCiao

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fbastos

quote:

Enterprise, Ranger,Wasp, Hornet and Langley were hardly battle names.


That's a good point. Enterprise I can understand, as there were famous Enterprise boats before. But it completely baffles me where Ranger, Wasp and Hornet came from. Perhaps they wanted to give the carriers flying insect names starting with Wasp/Hornet, then changed their mind?

And Ranger... argh... it's an uninspired name for an uninspired ship. Perhaps named in honor of a famous boat?


The Wasp and Hornet were US Warships from around 1800 AD.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 7:06:50 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper

Sort of funny reading through this thread how whenever the ENTERPRISE name comes up people usually think the "Big E" with the saucer section and warp drive. LOL! Theres SO MUCH history with that ship and ship name. The navy obviously loved her. They built the first Nuclear Carrier and named her "Enterpise" and the first shuttle was named that as well.


Just trivia, but IIRC from my Trekkie days, Gene Roddenberry originally wanted the NCC-1701 to carry the name 'USS Yorktown' (with a Captain April instead of Kirk commanding). And if I'm not mistaken, the first shuttle was named 'Enterprise' instead of 'Constitution' after a write-in campaign following the the tv feature of 'Star Trek' - but that's perhaps just an urban legend...?

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 7:58:04 PM   
eMonticello


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That is true. http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/resources/orbiters/enterprise.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Just trivia, but IIRC from my Trekkie days, Gene Roddenberry originally wanted the NCC-1701 to carry the name 'USS Yorktown' (with a Captain April instead of Kirk commanding). And if I'm not mistaken, the first shuttle was named 'Enterprise' instead of 'Constitution' after a write-in campaign following the the tv feature of 'Star Trek' - but that's perhaps just an urban legend...?


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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 9:30:50 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pry

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker



Nimitz a Politican?

Sure it wasn't Nimitz more due to his War service?

And Ike? Might been more due to his War Service then him being President...

Carl Vinson was a Politican?


Carl Vinson was SecNav.


Ron at least get his job right will ya (Canadians think they know everything )

CONGRESSMAN Carl Vinson of Georgia, did more to help the US armed forces especially the US Navy that any other elected politician in the 20th century.

Serving 50+ years, 29 of those as the chairman of the House Naval Affairs Committee, Armed Services Committee. Author of the Vinson - Trammel Act, better known as the Two Ocean Navy Act just prior to the outbreak of WWII, he also championed naval Avaitaion and also pushed thru the funding that allowed Rickover to play with nukes on submarines. He was a friend of the Navy on the hill for his entire tenure in congress.

If ANY politician ever deserved a ship named after them Congressman Vinson certainly did for his tireless efforts on behalf of the US Navy during 50+ years of public service.


Congressman, SecNav, Roscoe P Coaltrain...all the same! What's sad is Canadians tend to learn about other countries more because Canadian history is sooooooo boring for the most part (unless you are some freak who loves political history!) Nothing worse than revereing politicians.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 9:36:37 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2Stepper

Sort of funny reading through this thread how whenever the ENTERPRISE name comes up people usually think the "Big E" with the saucer section and warp drive. LOL! Theres SO MUCH history with that ship and ship name. The navy obviously loved her. They built the first Nuclear Carrier and named her "Enterpise" and the first shuttle was named that as well.

Some of the politician named ships have their merits. I don't mind them as much, though to be fair, I'm surprised we didn't go back to that original naming convention for them. Why not have this?

CVN Lexington, CVN Saratoga, CVN Yorktown, CVN Hornet, CVN Wasp, CVN Enterprise

Works for me.


Didn't love the BigE enough. Had to scrap her in '59 to make what, slinkies, razor blades, switch blades. Why not scrap those ****ty Dealey class obsolescent-as-built DEs or something?

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 9:39:45 PM   
vonmoltke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Didn't love the BigE enough. Had to scrap her in '59 to make what, slinkies, razor blades, switch blades. Why not scrap those ****ty Dealey class obsolescent-as-built DEs or something?

We got more selling them to small, unsuspecting navies around the world.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 9:41:20 PM   
Ron Saueracker


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What's up with naming ships after people who are not even dead yet? Give it up. Very bad case of Braun nosing it seems to me.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 9:49:46 PM   
vonmoltke


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Meh, we have no dignity anymore. Next thing you know, the pols will will be trading ship names for political support.

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 10:01:12 PM   
2Stepper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Just trivia, but IIRC from my Trekkie days, Gene Roddenberry originally wanted the NCC-1701 to carry the name 'USS Yorktown' (with a Captain April instead of Kirk commanding). And if I'm not mistaken, the first shuttle was named 'Enterprise' instead of 'Constitution' after a write-in campaign following the the tv feature of 'Star Trek' - but that's perhaps just an urban legend...?


True on both counts there LST... He wrote a draft pilot in 1963 I believe for the series with Capt Robert April as the commander, and Yorktown was indeed the ship name. I'm glad for those changes, though its fun to dig into the history. Just like the shame of the scrapping of CV 6, I fear for the eventual total loss of my beloved tv show. Star Trek will live on in thought, but I think its TV/Movie days are sadly numbered...

As to the Shuttle Enterprise, the entire cast of the Series was on hand at the unveiling. Some of them (that are still with us) get moved when you ask them about that day. Though I was only 8, I still remember it.

< Message edited by 2Stepper -- 8/19/2004 2:02:39 PM >


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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 10:11:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Some battle names are better nthan others..."Yorktown", "Saratoga" are home runs....."Cowpens"....hmmmm?

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 10:20:22 PM   
marky


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Enterprise, Ranger,Wasp, Hornet and Langley were hardly battle names. But I see you're point, naming ships for polititcians, beauracrats and non historical geographical names is simply friggin' boring in my opinion.


AMEN


carriers shouldnt be named after whining selfish and greedy politicians

though, kennedy, eisenhower, and nimitz r GREAT examples of exceptions

those 3 were great men, and they were all in the military, so its even more fitting

kinda strange that a navy warship would b named after a commander of GROUND forces tho

JF Kennedy? good name, esxpecially cuz jfk was in the navy


and as for CVN Nimitz?


PERFECT name

i think the primary reason for the nimitz class being named after him was the great and noble victory at MIDWAY

im not saying that fletcher and spruance dont deserve their fair share of the credit for midway, CUZ THEY SURE AS HELL DO

but the carriers, were his (nimitz) "chess pieces" if u will, so i believe thats the primary reason for the naming of the nimitz class


tho i think that carriers should have "beautiful" names agin

perhaps they will......

in 2012 ill run for president, win, and have them design and build the NEW Yorktown, and Wasp class suppercarriers

y 2012 u ask?

cuz u can bet that John Kerry is gonna win, and win again



any thoughts?



< Message edited by marky -- 8/19/2004 2:24:58 PM >


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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 10:31:21 PM   
Admiral DadMan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Who cares about the votes. Do ya think the thevoters in the state of Connecticut paid more than any other tax payers to get a Seawolf Class SSN named after it? Isn't New London and Electric Boat enough of a bloody kickback over the decades?

Hey now... easy boy...

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RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 10:53:21 PM   
RUPD3658


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the N means Nuclear powered as in CVN, SSN, etc

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"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


(in reply to Belisarius)
Post #: 59
RE: Goodbye Beautiful Carrier Names - 8/19/2004 10:54:44 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

I'm just waiting for a USS Bill Clinton, the first fully female manned warship in the USN.


In New Jersey we may have the SSN James McGreavy. It goes down and up and down...

_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 60
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