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Armor in the Finnish army

 
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Armor in the Finnish army - 8/26/2004 12:47:10 PM   
vulkansanex

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline 		Hello.

Can anyone inform me of how armour was used in the Finnish Army?
You can by a whole lot of captured Soviet hardware and field it in what i suspect is very unrealistic fashion.

I've had trouble finding books on the subject. And as i am a Lover of all things Finnish i'd be greatful for some info.

I imagine single tanks wehere used as temporary troop support during a battle.

But how was it really - Did they form units and have workshops and service tanks etc?


/Vulkan
Post #: 1
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/26/2004 1:37:05 PM   
serg3d

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 8/23/2003
Status: offline 		"The Tank arm was almost nonexistent, from the 35 ordered Vickers 6-ton tanks, 27 had been delivered before the war started, and even these had been bought (to reduce costs) without guns, optics and radios, so none were operational on 30 November 1939. The 32 old WW I vintage Renault FT's were totally obsolete in 1939 without any combat value." - winterwar.com

During January 1940 annyhilation of Soviet 44th division Finns captured intact 85 tanks, 437 trucks, 20 tractors, 10 motorcycles, 1620 horses, 92 artillery pieces, 78 anti-tank guns, and 13 anti-aircraft guns

26 Feb 1940 The only tank battle in the Winter War. Finnish tanks defeated, five out of six destroyed

another link:
http://ankkurinvarsi.com/jaeger/FORMATIONS4.htm

# 1st Tank Company: Armed with Renault FT-17 tanks. Didn't take part to battles as armour unit. The units FT-17 tanks ended up being dug in as bunker replacements in Mannerheim-line and were lost.
# 2nd Tank Company: Armed with Renault FT-17 tanks. Didn't take part to battles as armour unit. The units FT-17 tanks ended up being dug in as bunker replacements in Mannerheim-line and were lost.
# 3rd Tank Company: Unarmed Vickers 6 ton tanks. Didn't take part to battles as armoured units because efforts to arm its tanks were unsuccessful. The unit received captured armour vehicles during the war, but didn't use any of them in battle during it.
# 4th Tank Company: Unarmed Vickers 6 ton tanks. 13 of its tanks were armed during the war and 8 of them lost in battle. Biggest losses (5 tanks) came in battle of Honkaniemi 14th of February 1940.
# Armour Replacement Company / 5th Tank Company (name changed 7th of Nov 1939): Didn't receive armoured vehicles.
# 6th Tank Company: Formed 16th of January 1940. The unit received captured armour vehicles during the war, but didn't use any of them in battle during it.
# Separate Armour Squadron
: Leftover from Finnish plans of creating cavalry unit equipped with armoured cars. The unit had one Landsverk 182 armoured car, two trucks and motorcycle. It was the first Finnish armour unit to enter combat.

Captured Soviet armour was used to equip Finnish Tank Battalion for "Continuation War"

< Message edited by serg3d -- 8/26/2004 6:50:28 AM >

(in reply to vulkansanex)
Post #: 2
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/26/2004 1:51:05 PM   
serg3d

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 8/23/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: serg3d

"The Tank arm was almost nonexistent, from the 35 ordered Vickers 6-ton tanks, 27 had been delivered before the war started, and even these had been bought (to reduce costs) without guns, optics and radios, so none were operational on 30 November 1939. The 32 old WW I vintage Renault FT's were totally obsolete in 1939 without any combat value." - winterwar.com

During January 1940 annyhilation of Soviet 44th division Finns captured intact 85 tanks, 437 trucks, 20 tractors, 10 motorcycles, 1620 horses, 92 artillery pieces, 78 anti-tank guns, and 13 anti-aircraft guns

26 Feb 1940 The only tank battle in the Winter War. Finnish tanks defeated, five out of six destroyed

another link:
http://ankkurinvarsi.com/jaeger/FORMATIONS4.htm

Finnish armoured units before and during Winter War (Nov 1939 - March 1940):

# 1st Tank Company: Armed with Renault FT-17 tanks. Didn't take part to battles as armour unit. The units FT-17 tanks ended up being dug in as bunker replacements in Mannerheim-line and were lost.
# 2nd Tank Company: Armed with Renault FT-17 tanks. Didn't take part to battles as armour unit. The units FT-17 tanks ended up being dug in as bunker replacements in Mannerheim-line and were lost.
# 3rd Tank Company: Unarmed Vickers 6 ton tanks. Didn't take part to battles as armoured units because efforts to arm its tanks were unsuccessful. The unit received captured armour vehicles during the war, but didn't use any of them in battle during it.
# 4th Tank Company: Unarmed Vickers 6 ton tanks. 13 of its tanks were armed during the war and 8 of them lost in battle. Biggest losses (5 tanks) came in battle of Honkaniemi 14th of February 1940.
# Armour Replacement Company / 5th Tank Company (name changed 7th of Nov 1939): Didn't receive armoured vehicles.
# 6th Tank Company: Formed 16th of January 1940. The unit received captured armour vehicles during the war, but didn't use any of them in battle during it.
# Separate Armour Squadron
: Leftover from Finnish plans of creating cavalry unit equipped with armoured cars. The unit had one Landsverk 182 armoured car, two trucks and motorcycle. It was the first Finnish armour unit to enter combat.

Captured Soviet armour was used to equip Finnish Tank Battalion for "Continuation War"

(in reply to serg3d)
Post #: 3
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/26/2004 6:12:12 PM   
vulkansanex

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks serg3d. And for the winterwar.com adress!

Nice one
Vulkan

(in reply to serg3d)
Post #: 4
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/26/2004 7:43:37 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Have you checked this site?

http://www.andreaslarka.net/

Voriax

_____________________________

Oh God give Me strength to accept those things I cannot change with a firearm!

(in reply to vulkansanex)
Post #: 5
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/27/2004 4:41:04 PM   
vulkansanex

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 7/29/2004
Status: offline 		Cheers Voriax.

This question may not be allowed in this section of the forum - in that case I apologize formy ignorace and ask to me moved - but do you know if the 1985 version of "unknown soldier/Tuntimaton (that would be spelled wrong) Sotilas" is obtainable on dvd?

Respect
Vulkan

(in reply to Voriax)
Post #: 6
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/27/2004 6:13:30 PM   
Paranormalix

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vulkansanex

Cheers Voriax.

This question may not be allowed in this section of the forum - in that case I apologize formy ignorace and ask to me moved - but do you know if the 1985 version of "unknown soldier/Tuntimaton (that would be spelled wrong) Sotilas" is obtainable on dvd?

Respect
Vulkan


With quick search through some finnish moviesites/producer company sites, I fear that the version of ´85 "Tuntematon Sotilas" hasn't been released as dvd. Pity, because I would buy it my self too. If someone has better knowledge, please let me know it too. But 1955 version of the film is available on dvd.

_____________________________

" One size fits all : .50 " "unknown"

(in reply to vulkansanex)
Post #: 7
RE: Armor in the Finnish army - 8/11/2005 4:12:45 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		This is an old post, but I'll answer to it. As I am quite new on these boards.

First of all, the Winter War. Most military historians focus on the Winter war while explaining events at the Finnish front and for a reason: world's attention in 1939 was shifted to Finnish front because nothing else was going on that time. Finnish victories near Suomussalmi were reported to the world with memorable photographs that were labelled as "Frozen Hell" and such. The story did not end in here.

Second, the sources for the events in the Finnish front are of special nature and it is mostly a language problem. Finnish is rare and very difficult language and translating the originals is a hard work. This is why Russian sources are also widely studied.

Third, for a long period of time Russian studies for the events in Winter war were based on THE SPEECHES BY V.MOLOTOV. You don't really make good military history by studying political speeches. Only in 1990's historian Yurij Kilin wrote a decent Russian military history on the events at the Finnish front. You may forget Baryshnikows, Putinist revisionists.

And the tanks...

It is true that in the winter war only one tank battle was fought with Finns losing five tanks out of six. Some crews definitely were saved as their vehicles did not start.

During the continuation war a tank battalion was formed out of captured Russian material. The battalion did not appear on the front until River crossing at Tuulos September 4th 1941. After that tanks rolled to Petroskoi which was taken October 1st 1941. Tanks were used with Jaegers who rode bicycles. Their commander was Col. Ruben Lagus, who was promoted Maj. Gen when Petroskoi was taken. During September 1941 tanks were widely used as support for infantry divisions. They were seldom used en massé in that period. Luckily Finnish T-26's did not face Soviet T-34's in 1941. Finnish infantry did see heavier Russian tanks, and even managed to capture a couple of them. Tank duels between Finns and Soviets were rare in 1941, except that one in Petäjäselkä in September 1941 (Finns won).

After Petroskoi Finnish tanks were used in capture of Karhumäki and Poventsa, which both were taken by December 6th 1941. A single Finnish T-34 was spearheding the attack smashing everything on its way. After that no more offensive operations for the army of Finland.

As more captured Russian tanks were taken in use, Mannerheim ordered an entire armoured division to be formed on February 10th 1942. Maj. Gen Lagus was its commander. Actually it was a tank brigade with motorized artillery and the elite Jaegerbrigade. Later, an assault gun battalion with Stug-IIIg's was added to the force.

Tanks were used in 1944 during the defensive battles at Tali-Ihantala region. Old fashinoned tanks were not much of use, but assault guns were used with moderate success. The greatest battle for Finnish Stug's was the battle of Kuuterselkä on June 14th 1944 where at least 40 Russian tanks were destroyed with a loss of six "sturms".

< Message edited by Puukkoo -- 8/12/2005 3:48:04 PM >

(in reply to vulkansanex)
Post #: 8
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