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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> Level Bombers and Torps!

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Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 2:14:30 AM

Titanwarrior89

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Playing against Jap AI. He came in with 45 bettys at 13 to 15,000 feet. And 3 to 6 bombers at 5,000 feet. My battleship the NC took 6 torpedo hits. Is this possible? If so, why do they show 200feet sometimes. I have patch version 1.21 .

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 2:19:32 AM

SunDevil_MatrixForum

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From: Tempe, AZ
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Because planes drop torpedos at 200 feet. Whatever height they come in at, they drop down taking flak and then drop their torpedos at the default 200 feet. This is better explained in the manual, in the air plane section.

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Post #: 2

RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 2:38:54 AM

Xargun

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From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

Because planes drop torpedos at 200 feet. Whatever height they come in at, they drop down taking flak and then drop their torpedos at the default 200 feet. This is better explained in the manual, in the air plane section.

Exactly... When planes use torpedoes the altitude you set is for the trip to and from the target. They all drop to 200 feet to launch torps. Dive Bombers will drop to 2000 feet I believe to drop their loads as well.. Every other bomber using bombs will drop from whatever altitude you select - reason B-17s are not very good early in the war as most people fly them too high to be effective.

Xargun

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 2:42:46 AM

Mr.Frag

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Add tactical bombers to the 2000 foot drop height ... they glide bomb.

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 2:46:55 AM

Xargun

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Add tactical bombers to the 2000 foot drop height ... they glide bomb.

Is that more efficient ?

Xargun

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Post #: 5

RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 2:48:14 AM

Titanwarrior89

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Thanks for the repley guys. I understand what your saying. In the case above the AI (bettys) came in at 5 to 18k and some of them dropped torpedo's. But in some battles before for this one bettys showed (AI) 200ft for torpedo drop. Just wondering why the difference. Also with the bettys at 5 to 18k, in the case above the sound effects was bombs dropping. I am a little confused! Your help is greatly needed!

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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 3:10:27 AM

Titanwarrior89

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I don't doubt what you guys say. But why does some of my combat reports show torps dropped at 5k. while sometimes it'll show 200ft. In all cases it bettys(AI) (1.21) Why doesn't the report say 200ft. , no matter what the altitude was getting to their target. If there dropping torps. Some of my reports says bettys dropped torps at 5k and some will show 200ft. I guess what I am really asking is why does the combat report show didn't heights for dropping torps, while some of those reports will show 200ft. some at 5k. That has me confused.

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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 3:25:54 AM

SunDevil_MatrixForum

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No torps were dropped at 5000ft, those were your bombers, all torps get dropped at 200ft. If you think I am wrong please post a combat report showing otherwise. Thanks

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 12:40:36 PM

DoomedMantis

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From: Sydney, Australia
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There was probably a mixture of bombers with some dropping bombs (showing 5k feet etc) and the ones dropping torps at 200ft. If you have a repeatable save of bombers dropping torps from 5k then send me a copy and I will look at it.

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/2/2004 5:21:07 PM

Sonny

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If your Bettys are flying at extended range or from an airbase smaller than size 4 they will use bombs and drop them from whatever height they are set to fly at. (Or if they are attacking a land target they will use bombs and drop them from the height of their flight.)

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 3:45:22 AM

Titanwarrior89

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Thanks for your help guys. I'll look for it again, if it happens. Forgot and didn't save my combat report. The report show about 45 bettys- lowest altitude was 5k and the highest was 18k. None in the report showed 200ft, but took six torps into the BB NC. patch ver. 1.21 new game sce 42b(i think) 4 aug 42 to Mar 31 46.

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"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 3:54:25 AM

Caltone

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Can you imagine dropping a torpedo from 18,000 feet? I'm betting that one would run a little deep

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 2:35:16 PM

Hard Sarge

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I don't think Betties are working right, I think they are dropping Trops from high alt

I get my reports of them flying at 10-12-14 K, when they drop

when a number of Betties drop, I get the bomb drop sound and multi spashes as if bombs are hitting the water around the ship

but when they do get a hit, it is reported as a Trop hit

what makes me wonder, is the Betties are pretty poor in this verison of the game now

I mean, 75 Betties attack a convoy of AK's with 2 MSW for protection, and get 75 misses (2nd attack in the day, 68 came over and got 1 hit, a Trop)

HARD_Sarge

also, I notice the TBF's fly in at a reported 5000 ft, not 200 or 100, but what they fly to target at, but the SBD's which are flying at 15000, are reported to be coming in at 2000

if I remember when I get into my turn today, I will switch some TBF's to a dfferent alt and see what the report says

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 2:39:47 PM

Hard Sarge

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well this is a standard report

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Kako, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 5000 feet

the SBD's were coming in at 15000, on the way to target, the TBF's were coming in at 5000

(yesterdays last turn report)

HARD_Sarge

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 3:02:54 PM

DoomedMantis

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From: Sydney, Australia
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Have you got the before save from that turn?

If so can you send it to me with step by step instructions and I will have a look at it. I will also need to know if it was a game started in a previous version and what version you are on

cheers

DM

paul.harrison50@bigpond.com

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 6:18:32 PM

Hard Sarge

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I still think TB are broken, they bomb as if they are level bombers

Day Air attack on TF at 60,88

Allied aircraft
TBF Avenger x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x TBF Avenger bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,86

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
SBD Dauntless x 40
TBF Avenger x 13

Japanese Ships
CL Natori
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 6, on fire
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,86

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
SBD Dauntless x 30
TBF Avenger x 7

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 5, on fire
BB Mutsu, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,86

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 22
TBF Avenger x 15

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Mutsu, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
G4M1 Betty x 11

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10

Allied Ships
BB Tennessee
BB Colorado, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet

THESE ARE FROM TRUK, THEY ALWAYS COME IN LOW
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lae at 54,87

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
SBD Dauntless x 39
TBF Avenger x 18
P-40E Warhawk x 29

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 6, on fire
DD Tomozuru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hiei, Bomb hits 4
CL Kiso

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 15000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet

HASSLE is not many Trop hits, but I did land some, not long range missions, I had even cut down max range

from the Alts it is showing the TBF's comeing in as if Level Bombers

the SBD's are all at 15 K, bomb at 2000, the TBF's are 3-7-10 and 15 K

any hits with Bombs came from the SBD's, no TFB's show any bomb hits, just a whole lot of misses

verison 1.20 started then patched to 1.21 but not restarted
Scen 14, the Aug 42 to 46 campaign

HARD_Sarge

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 6:30:31 PM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

BB Nagato, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Sarge, assuming you are running against the AI, toggle the FoW setting and re-run the turn. I'll be that reported torp hit is FoW, not real.

What is the exact range between the two groups?

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 6:30:41 PM

Sonny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I don't think Betties are working right, I think they are dropping Trops from high alt

I get my reports of them flying at 10-12-14 K, when they drop

when a number of Betties drop, I get the bomb drop sound and multi spashes as if bombs are hitting the water around the ship

but when they do get a hit, it is reported as a Trop hit

what makes me wonder, is the Betties are pretty poor in this verison of the game now

I mean, 75 Betties attack a convoy of AK's with 2 MSW for protection, and get 75 misses (2nd attack in the day, 68 came over and got 1 hit, a Trop)

HARD_Sarge

also, I notice the TBF's fly in at a reported 5000 ft, not 200 or 100, but what they fly to target at, but the SBD's which are flying at 15000, are reported to be coming in at 2000

if I remember when I get into my turn today, I will switch some TBF's to a dfferent alt and see what the report says

I noticed that many of my Bettys only get one or two torp hits with a total of 32 aircraft attacking. Have not looked at the experience etc. so that may be a factor. Also didn't notice any bomb splashes but maybe after staring at the screen for hours I don't notice when something is not quite as depicted in the combat replay.

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 6:32:54 PM

Mr.Frag

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Add tactical bombers to the 2000 foot drop height ... they glide bomb.

Is that more efficient ?

Xargun

Nope, thats simply what they report the drop at altitude, just like DB's

Torp = 200
DB = 2000
Glide Bomb = 2000
Others = real altitude of release

If it is not reporting 200, then no torpedoes were dropped although FoW might step in here and say otherwise.

(in reply to Xargun)

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 6:39:47 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Okay I will give it a go with FOW off

must attacks were 2 hex range, some 3
(AI had stacked a lot of BB's at Lea, I changed in, hit them and then broke and ran)

but for FOW, I don't think so, at least from the betty attacks on me that I have seen, I am getting a lot of 15 K raids, and getting hit with Trops

HARD_Sarge

back in a few

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 7:09:11 PM

Hard Sarge

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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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WOW, never knew the IJN had so many Subs !!!!!

totally different turn, guess both sides had better recon ?

Day Air attack on TF, near Buna at 55,90

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 25
SBD Dauntless x 78
TBF Avenger x 41
P-40E Warhawk x 1

Japanese Ships
CL Yubari, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Aoba, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA Chokai, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
CA Furutaka, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA Kako, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Ariake
DD Wakaba

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger bombing at 11000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 11000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Lae at 54,87

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 28
TBF Avenger x 28
P-40E Warhawk x 30

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Kiso
BB Hiei, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 4, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 11000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 4000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 11000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so, I am getting Trop hits, not many, but they are hitting and the report is showing my TB's at different alts ?

HARD_Sarge

if this ends up not being a bug/mistake,think there is any change we could get the report changed, so it would read, if the plane was dropping Trops or if it was dropping bombs ? that could clear up so hassles on the players part as to what they are really seeing

hmmm wait one, look back at my other AAR, it shows Bettys lanching Trops at 200 ft, it is saying TBF's bombing from what ever and as that attack on the CA's with FOW off shows, I am dropping Trops

and from my first AAR, which shows the TBF's at the right height of 5000 ft, that says they are bombing also

????

HARD_Sarge

LOL what are those P-40's doing ? must be on Excourt from PM, long way to fly, to join a raid with no enemy Cap !!!!

< Message edited by Hard Sarge -- 8/3/2004 5:10:59 PM >

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 7:38:01 PM

Mr.Frag

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From: Purgatory
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FoW off means recon level is forced to 1 no matter what so better intel all around generally.

The fact they are reporting as bombing yet dropping torpedoes *is* a problem.

I count 40 TB's in the first attack out of 41 ... one got shot down I assume.

Need the save.

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Post #: 22

RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 8:19:13 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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Mail sent, but I am having a hassle, when I zip it, it is coming in at 1.36, both my accounts say it is over the 1024 size limit to send ??????

I edited the ARR to take out details that were not needed, so I cut out the damaged and lost planes

for what it is worth, I have seen this since the game came out (I got it the first day it was ready for dl)

what alt should TBF's be at to drop Trops ?, playing with the Alt Arrows, I get 100 ft or 1000 ft

HARD_Sarge

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 8:40:35 PM

Mr.Frag

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From: Purgatory
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You don't set the alt that it drops ... any alt except 100 will be fine.

It reports 200 feet as the drop height, that is NOT the height to set them to fly at.

see my reply to your email.

K, got your save, looking into what and why ... coupled with how

< Message edited by Mr.Frag -- 8/3/2004 2:11:07 PM >

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Post #: 24

RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/3/2004 9:04:14 PM

Hard Sarge

Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
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save has been sent

roger on we don't set the alt for the drop, but before 5000 was good for TBF's, but was just checking to see if I could "force" it to give the launching Trop message

but again, since I have had the game, the only planes I see with message is some of the betties that are based at Truk, the rest of the betties are between 10-15 K and my TFB/TBMs are shown at 5000, bombing

HARD_Sarge

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/4/2004 2:09:02 AM

Titanwarrior89

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From: arkansas
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Mr. Frag did you get my combat report and save file I sent ya. Concering Bettys and torps.

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

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Post #: 26

RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/4/2004 12:09:37 PM

Odin

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From: Germany, Wanne-Eickel
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Some days ago i played the Marianas Scenario and attacked Palau with carriers, hitting the capital ships sitting in port.

Experimental i send in my Avengers at 16000 feet like the dive bombers, and it seems they all!! attacked with torpedos, scoring numerous torpedo hits.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/30/2004 10:29:59 AM

tabpub

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Had this one happen to me yesterday and I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on the problem, if there is any.

Day Air attack on TF, near Davao at 41,61
Japanese aircraft
A6M2 0-Sen x 17
B5N x 29
Japanese aircraft losses
B5N : 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
Allied Ships
CA Houston, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Boise, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Marblehead
Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
3 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet
4 x B5N bombing at 8000 feet

Another oddity---they are noted as bombing and during the replay you can hear the �bombs�, but the used torpedoes according to the damage received and the graphics displayed�

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RE: Level Bombers and Torps! - 8/30/2004 6:59:56 PM

SKillelea

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I am getting the exact same thing. Very rare torpedo hits, bomb falling sounds when the planes should be launching torpedoes, showing bombing run at flight altitude and not torpedoes dropped at 200 ft.... US CVs are operating within the range of Rabaul with impunity due to this.

SKillelea

(in reply to tabpub)

Post #: 29

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