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Upgrading Ships - 8/30/2004 9:42:13 PM   
KPAX


Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		As a general rule, is everyone upgrading Allied ships ?

I looked into some of the upgrades, via the new program in Spooky's site, and almost all of the first upgrades seem pretty important.

the N Hampton upgrade in 2/42 was substantial for AA.

most of the first DDs upgrades were important for AA.

All you Allied players, are you upgrading immediately or not ?

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Thanks !!

KPAX
Post #: 1
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/30/2004 9:51:00 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		Definitely do the upgrades! Just make sure you keep half of your ships out in TF's. Then rotate the upgraded ones out and replace them with the ships that still need it. After the repairs are completed of course.

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Post #: 2
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/30/2004 9:56:13 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		question is : how and where to upgrade

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RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/30/2004 10:12:05 PM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		You have to have a level 10 port. Throw in 4 AR's and a couple of AD's, AS's for subs, and you'll see the repairs zoom!

Disband them and they will start to upgrade.

< Message edited by Halsey -- 8/30/2004 2:13:03 PM >

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RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/30/2004 11:03:11 PM   
KPAX


Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

You have to have a level 10 port. Throw in 4 AR's and a couple of AD's, AS's for subs, and you'll see the repairs zoom!

Disband them and they will start to upgrade.



I did not realize that they needed a port size 10 ....

I thought that they just needed a shipyard in the port, regardless of the size of the port.

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX

(in reply to Halsey)
Post #: 5
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/30/2004 11:14:18 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		Port size ten yes. They will take anywhere from 5 to 15 system damage to simulate the upgrade in process. So, don't upgrade everything at once or you'll have alot of damaged ships.

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Post #: 6
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 12:12:52 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		If you need a size 10 port then no British ship can get upgraded. There are no size 10 ports in India.

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Post #: 7
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 12:43:01 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Rule 13.3 states......

Ship upgrades may only take place in ports with repair shipyards (or off map in smaller scenarios).

Nothing is said about requiring a size 10 Port, which if true would mean no British ship could get a refit since there are no size 10 ports in India.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 8
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 2:44:46 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Send the Royal Navy ships Sydney.

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Post #: 9
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 2:50:59 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		As far as Allied Upgrades go, the entire point of 99% of them deal with AA upgrades. On your DDs, for example, by 1944-45 the AA upgrades become so extensive that most tin cans will land half or all of their torpedo battery. Always upgrade.

Also, install my graphic mod if you want to see the effects of Allied upgrades. THroughout the war, you will see masts being cut down, and the sleek, graceful appearance of ships disapper as AA is bolted on any spot that can hold it. You can get it at Spooky's site.

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Post #: 10
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 4:07:13 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Send the Royal Navy ships Sydney.


Why would I need to send them to Sydney? The rules do NOT say I need a size 10 port. and I will check but isnt sydney just a 9?

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Post #: 11
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 4:20:31 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

The rules do NOT say I need a size 10 port. and I will check but isnt sydney just a 9?

You don't have to have a level 10, but you certainly want to have a level 10 so the damage will repair fast. I think that was the thought behind the word "need"

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Post #: 12
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 4:55:02 AM   
Halsey

 

Posts: 5069
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		A size 10 is what you want. Using a 9 is so, so. You can bump up its' effectiveness with AR's, AD's and AS's.

Yes, the English have to kiss some Aussie butt so they can use Sydney.

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Post #: 13
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 8:02:03 AM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		Thia is how misunderstanding of the rules come by. I ignore people who say you 'need a level 10 port' when NO such NEED exists. The game is complex enough already without posting misinformation.

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Post #: 14
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 12:34:14 PM   
dacharls

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/23/2002
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		How do youy see if a ship is upgrading? And how long will it take?

I have 6 st DD av a couple of CAs in SF and are waiting to see if something is happening!

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Post #: 15
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 1:11:04 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		As soon as the turn is run if it is the right month and not too much damage is already done to the ship, the upgrade happens.

I dont know the max damage a ship can have before upgrade wont happen. Think someone said they thought it was 5 damage.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 16
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 1:22:05 PM   
dacharls

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/23/2002
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		OK but isnt it so that 2/42 upgrade will happen to a ship(2/42) even if its first at port by 3/42? Or is it wasted?

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Post #: 17
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 4:19:17 PM   
UncleBuck

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		Karachi will do the Upgrades in India. I beleive it is in teh Manual that Kirachi works like San Fran in India and slgihtly smaller.

UB

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Post #: 18
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 4:26:50 PM   
ckk

 

Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: Pensacola Beach FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dacharls

OK but isnt it so that 2/42 upgrade will happen to a ship(2/42) even if its first at port by 3/42? Or is it wasted?


No it is never wasted. You must get the ship to a port that has repair capabilities and the any damage should be below 5.

(in reply to dacharls)
Post #: 19
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 5:24:11 PM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		The manual is very specific in what's required for a ship upgrade: a port with a repair yard. I see no notation of damage level (ie, a ship must be below such 'n such). (section 13.3).

(in reply to ckk)
Post #: 20
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 5:27:50 PM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		I think, all you need is repair shipyard. I have done mine in Auckland. You will repair SYS
damage quicker by using bigger port

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Post #: 21
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 5:34:04 PM   
ckk

 

Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: Pensacola Beach FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Toro

The manual is very specific in what's required for a ship upgrade: a port with a repair yard. I see no notation of damage level (ie, a ship must be below such 'n such). (section 13.3).


I agree that what the maual says. But experience shows that ships will not upgrade even in repair shipyards until system damage is reduced to a low level usually 5 or below. As the allies check on the PH BB's upgrades. They will not upgrade until system damaged is reduced. Manuals can't be expected to tell you everything.

(in reply to Toro)
Post #: 22
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 5:55:08 PM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ckk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Toro

The manual is very specific in what's required for a ship upgrade: a port with a repair yard. I see no notation of damage level (ie, a ship must be below such 'n such). (section 13.3).


I agree that what the maual says. But experience shows that ships will not upgrade even in repair shipyards until system damage is reduced to a low level usually 5 or below. As the allies check on the PH BB's upgrades. They will not upgrade until system damaged is reduced. Manuals can't be expected to tell you everything.


As matter of fact yes, manuals can be expected to tell you everything. Manuals are supposed to tell you everything. That many manuals do not is something else.

(in reply to ckk)
Post #: 23
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 6:11:03 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Common sense should tell you that the gaping holes in the side of the ship where water is coming in are going to get fixed before adding a couple AA guns onto the deck that is still not there because of the bombs that hit. You gotta weld the deck parts back on before you can mount a gun there.

Ships have to be serviceable to get upgraded. Sorry if you expect someone to tell you something which is so obvious.

(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 24
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 6:30:50 PM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Common sense should tell you that the gaping holes in the side of the ship where water is coming in are going to get fixed before adding a couple AA guns onto the deck that is still not there because of the bombs that hit. You gotta weld the deck parts back on before you can mount a gun there.

Ships have to be serviceable to get upgraded. Sorry if you expect someone to tell you something which is so obvious.


That's does seem common sense to me. But manuals still ought to tell you everything. They are, afterall, the repository of a game's rules set.

Sorry if you expect someone to tell you something which is so obvious.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 25
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 6:43:15 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		It's like explaining that disabled troops don't take part in combat. There are some things that should be beyond having to be said in a manual. This game is after all aimed at Advanced Grognard level wargamers.

I know there are 3 classes of people, Those that live for the manual, Those that scoff at manuals, and those who sit somewhere between of these two extremes. Can't please all three types with 1 manual.

(in reply to Tristanjohn)
Post #: 26
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 6:56:30 PM   
Tristanjohn


Posts: 3027
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Daly City CA USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It's like explaining that disabled troops don't take part in combat. There are some things that should be beyond having to be said in a manual. This game is after all aimed at Advanced Grognard level wargamers.

I know there are 3 classes of people, Those that live for the manual, Those that scoff at manuals, and those who sit somewhere between of these two extremes. Can't please all three types with 1 manual.


I tend to agree re not being able to please everyone. Speaking for myself, I certainly don't live in manuals or pretend to be an expert on the system, but if the WitP manual is anything like the UV manual then it leaves a lot to be desired, because the latter didn't cut it by half.

It standfs to reason that a manual cannot be expected to parse to death each and every detail of a game with the scope of WitP and still come in at under thirty pounds; on the other hand, a gamer who reads the manual ought to be afforded the information necessary to make good sense of the game's action in all respects (i.e., not only understand what's happening but have a clear idea how and why it's happening).

I haven't enough time on the system or spent enough time inside the WitP manual to critically judge this product yet in those regards. It might be that with a game system so invloved the user manual needs to be complemented with a sort of game player's guide replete with game-designer and player notes.

One thing is for dead certain: it is impossible to be too clear.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 27
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 7:01:48 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		At 220 pages, the WitP manual is already pretty large. Since the game is a digital download, it's reasonable to assume that most of the players will have 'net access, that they will know that these forums exist, and that they'd come here.

So: "Thank you" to Mr. Frag for answering a question that I was anticipating asking myself!

Steve.

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Post #: 28
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 7:07:48 PM   
Lex Talionis


Posts: 32
Joined: 2/11/2004
From: United Kingdom of Great Britain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Yes, the English have to kiss some Aussie butt so they can use Sydney.


So if the English have the Royal Navy... what do the Scots, Welsh and (Northern) Irish have then? Are they not taking part as part of GREAT BRITAIN and being BRITISH??? Did they sign the opt out clause for the War in the Pacific?

Para 66.6.5.i Ye tho Great Britain is a United Kingdom of independent countries brought together by a common island and its common animosity towards the French, Great Britain was cruelly attacked by the wicked Nippon Nation on 7th Dec 41. Great Britain has avowed to defend its overseas dominions, however, should you wish not to participate please tick one of the following options (or provide one of your own):
*We'd rather stay at home and grow our...(insert national vegetable here)
*Its a Sunday, nobody does anything except watch footy on a Sunday.
*That'd mean wasting valuable drinking time down the pub.
*Who cares about the Pacific, the Yanks don't even know we Scots, Welsh and Irish exist.



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Post #: 29
RE: Upgrading Ships - 8/31/2004 7:24:38 PM   
latosusi

 

Posts: 327
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: London/Kuopio
Status: offline 		After PH attack, badly damaged BB's were upgraded while being repaired. I does not make
any sense to wait for them to be fully repaired and then to upgrade them. You might as well do it at the
same time therefore saving time they are going to be out of action.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 30
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