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Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 8/28/2004 9:02:06 PM

Frank W.

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
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I tried some generated campaigns again.

i played some of them earlier.

guess i have now played to much PBM�s
to overlook the AI faults and the questionable
AI selction of forces:

i mean the tanks come without inf support.

the inf without tank support.

the AI bunches his forces on the vic hexes.

the AI selects masses of inf but few tanks..

any idea how to make this camps more interesting ?

thanx

frank

btw:

-i�m playing 71. and H2H.
there is no update to 8.xx from
these , correct ?

-are the above points in the new
versions better ?

< Message edited by Frank W. -- 8/28/2004 8:03:45 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 8/28/2004 9:36:32 PM

chief

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The only update from 7.1 is a complete download of 8.2

H2Hfr was designed for 7.1 only. A new update for 8.2 is supposedly in the hopper??????

You might try deleting the steel.prf file in the Save folder prior to setting up a new game. This file does funny/wierd things in SPwaw. It doesn't hurt the game, it renews itself and remember to reset your prefs when you setup. Watch out where you set troop rarity also, I've read this causes a problem in generated games.

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Post #: 2

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 8/28/2004 11:23:06 PM

Gallo Rojo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank W.

any idea how to make this camps more interesting ?

Yes: forget about SPWaW: dowload SPWW2.v7 and play it! it has a decent* AI

* it knows how to use smoke, tries to surrownd your possition instead of send all its units affter the Victory Objetives, stablishes support weapons on the rear-guard, tries to attack your on-board artillery with its own artillery, etc. It is still not brilliant, but plays like a newbie human (very newbie)

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Post #: 3

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 8/29/2004 8:38:23 PM

Cooper

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Check out the map size thread. Putting the campaign battle into the scenario file will allow a friend, or even an enemy to set up the Op-For and set up their basic battle plan. Yes it is a little more work, but depending on the ability of the person setting up the Op-For the time invested is well worth it.

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Post #: 4

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/2/2004 11:55:56 AM

serg3d

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo
Yes: forget about SPWaW: dowload SPWW2.v7 and play it! it has a decent* AI

Any advice how to run it under XP ? I see only command line window...(videocard Radeon 9600)

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Post #: 5

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/2/2004 7:45:54 PM

Paranormalix

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quote:

ORIGINAL: serg3d

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo
Yes: forget about SPWaW: dowload SPWW2.v7 and play it! it has a decent* AI

Any advice how to run it under XP ? I see only command line window...(videocard Radeon 9600)

With XP and Radeon 9600 I just installed the game and started to play. After sound setup of course. Do You have latest DirectX and Catalyst? If not, maybe You should upgrade to latest.

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/3/2004 4:40:48 PM

RockinHarry

Posts: 2963
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From: Germany
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Don�t forget code works for SPWAW were abandoned since 2002, while CW SP2WW2 still is under constant development, with special care to "known" weaknesses of all the Steel Panthers series weaknesses like AI, OOB expansion ect.

I admit I prefer SP2WW2 for generated campaigns, but as long as MegaCams and well made user campaigns for SPWAW are available, I�ll prefer these!

Even current V8.3 OOB set can�t compensate for the underdeveloped AIP in SPWAW, although you�ll see slightly improved force mixes for various nations.

What you can do yourself to improve the AIP force selection for your generated campaign is to use Stuart Trounsons OOB editor and investigate the AI force selection with the methods outlined in the readme file. It�s a lil bit of work, maybe you have the patience...
Some OOBs have the AI selected forces already marked so you can start to adapt them to your taste at once.

Coopers idea letting a friend setting up the OpFor is another good idea worth to try! Combine that with well made user maps and a generated SPWAW campaign is surely lots more fun.

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/3/2004 7:43:29 PM

john g

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From: college station, tx usa
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank W.

any idea how to make this camps more interesting ?

Yes: forget about SPWaW: dowload SPWW2.v7 and play it! it has a decent* AI

* it knows how to use smoke, tries to surrownd your possition instead of send all its units affter the Victory Objetives, stablishes support weapons on the rear-guard, tries to attack your on-board artillery with its own artillery, etc. It is still not brilliant, but plays like a newbie human (very newbie)

And if you set up the same battle in both SPWAW and SPWW2v7 it plays out within a few points of each other. The ai in both games is pretty much the same, it is no better in either game, its just that SPww2 has nothing else that it can claim as better, so it makes up a claim that the ai is better.

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Post #: 8

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/4/2004 3:45:05 AM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: john g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gallo Rojo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Frank W.

any idea how to make this camps more interesting ?

Yes: forget about SPWaW: dowload SPWW2.v7 and play it! it has a decent* AI

* it knows how to use smoke, tries to surrownd your possition instead of send all its units affter the Victory Objetives, stablishes support weapons on the rear-guard, tries to attack your on-board artillery with its own artillery, etc. It is still not brilliant, but plays like a newbie human (very newbie)

And if you set up the same battle in both SPWAW and SPWW2v7 it plays out within a few points of each other. The ai in both games is pretty much the same, it is no better in either game, its just that SPww2 has nothing else that it can claim as better, so it makes up a claim that the ai is better.

I haven't played the latest version of SPWW2 much, as for one thing I'm awaiting the supplemental addition predicted in two weeks, but at least playing in WWII campaigns with the heavy AI tank selection option on, it delivers a better ratio of balanced forces than the complaintant's view of SPWAW. I usually play SPWW2 with the map setting on almost the largest size (my setting is 200 X 140), so I'm upwards of 40-45 core tanks (maybe 110 core units total). What I usually get from the Poles is around 30-35 AFV's, and it seems as though I never get less than 10 tanks from the Poles even if the AFV ratio is in smaller terms, so the force selection is hardly ever boring. One of the best AI aspects of the game is that the deployments for the AI are actually random, and seem to have little or no bearing on the VP locations, but given how the VP's can be switched to 100% clusters familiar in SPWAW or 100% grapeshot pattern (or anything inbetween) this proves invaluable. You literally never know where the enemy is in advance. From the aspect of trying to eliminate as many enemy forces and take all the VP's as possible, which is how I play, the grapeshot pattern of VP locations alone makes for a better AI.

I haven't played enough to distinguish the method of the advance when it attacks, whether it just rumbles forward from it's deployment or not (and I'd rather not know) but that AI is very prone not to counterattack while in a defensive mission, which in game terms usually makes it harder on the veteran player, as the counterattacks in SPWAW for me, made things easier.

< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 9/3/2004 7:48:10 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/4/2004 5:26:20 AM

Gallo Rojo

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From: Argentina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: john g

And if you set up the same battle in both SPWAW and SPWW2v7 it plays out within a few points of each other. The ai in both games is pretty much the same, it is no better in either game, its just that SPww2 has nothing else that it can claim as better, so it makes up a claim that the ai is better.

- SPWW2 has much (and I mean MUCH) better and larger OOBs than SPWaW
- It has winter and dessert icons for its units (only SPH2H has winter cammo units; SPWaW.8.2 has only summer cammo units).
Maps are larger and wider.
You can have more units and formations than in SPWAW.
Terrain has more elevations than SPWAW
When a vehicle is destroyed, the crewmen in SPWW2 stay routed by several turns. In SPWAW, they get ready immediately.
Snipers, actually can kill someone in SPWW2 (they are blind guys in SPWAW).

Regarding the AI, SPWW2 AI is actually smarter than SPWaW. All that SPWaW AI knows to do (in terms of tactics I mean) is send uncoordinated waves of tanks after the Victory Objectives; and following the most predictable routes. On the other hand, SPWW2 AI doesn�t go directory after Victory Objectives: it usually tries to surround your position by avoiding direct routes (like roads and so). It know how to use smoke (it use smoke to cover its advance, and individual tanks shoots smoke to cover enemy firing units LOS). SPWW2 AI establishes support weapons to cover its advancing units and uses �step-frog� tactic with its tank platoons. SPWW2 AI usually recognizes where your On-Board artillery is (by detecting smoke clouds) and counter battery them. And I could go and go and go with thinks that SPWW2 AI does much better than SPWAW�s AI.

Is it something in SPWAW that is better than SPWW2?
Yes, three things:
a) Graphics and sound (since SPWAW is a Windows based game while SPWW2 is a DOS based one)
b) A more friendly environment (against because it�s a Windows game)
c) You can play on-line in SPWAW

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/7/2004 1:26:23 AM

rich12545

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From: Palouse, WA
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After reading this thread, I tried spww2. It scrolled way too fast. When I inserted moslo, my vesa dll wouldn't load. This is in xp. There were a couple of other problems as well and I finally gave it up. Too bad. I was kind of looking forward to spmbt also.

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Post #: 11

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/7/2004 2:22:23 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Editorial: All of this only reminds me of the tragedy that occurred when the camps split. Rather than having a damn-near perfect SPWaW, we have alternate games. Jeez, sometimes you have to set egos aside and go for the common good, but such was not to be. Both versions are lessened because of human foibles.

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Post #: 12

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/7/2004 2:24:06 AM

Gallo Rojo

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From: Argentina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

After reading this thread, I tried spww2. It scrolled way too fast. When I inserted moslo, my vesa dll wouldn't load. This is in xp. There were a couple of other problems as well and I finally gave it up. Too bad. I was kind of looking forward to spmbt also.

I'm not very good with computers so I'm not sure that I can help you to solve the problem. But if you give me a couple of days (may be less than that), I'll post here a link to a discussion board or a group where somebody will help you

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/7/2004 6:37:10 PM

Gallo Rojo

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here it is: there're two yahoo mail groups (one for spww2 and the other for spmbt):

spww2 mail group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SPWW2/

spmbt mail group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SPmbt/

I'm sure you'll find some one that could help you there

< Message edited by Gallo Rojo -- 9/7/2004 4:37:28 PM >

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/8/2004 12:54:07 AM

rich12545

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From: Palouse, WA
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Gallo, thanks for the info, but I guess I don't really care all that much. Spwaw works right out of the box and I'm not interested enough to fool with dos again. Funny thing is I have a dos shareware program called Capture the Flag that I bought in 1995 that works just fine. So I don't see why the camo folks can't do the same. Besides the above mentioned problems I got a very slow mouse and frequent freezes.

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/9/2004 2:50:46 PM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

After reading this thread, I tried spww2. It scrolled way too fast. When I inserted moslo, my vesa dll wouldn't load. This is in xp. There were a couple of other problems as well and I finally gave it up. Too bad. I was kind of looking forward to spmbt also.

If the only thing that's wrong with your setup is the scroll speed (and I had too slow a mouse) then your problem is probably easily solved. Go to the 'data' directory and pull up the file 'spww2.ini' and change the "5th" amount, this is what controls scroll. Mine is currentnly set to '8' and can get slower if I want to. I don't think the processor speed has anything to do with that, because I have a slo program which I don't even run anymore because there is no difference there. The adjustment will do it. Read all the text files in that directory for a further clarification of what can be done.

As far as any other problems you might have you can try the spcamo website: http://linetap.com/www/drg/SPCamo-SPinXP.htm in which I focused the link on the main page for getting it to work. Beware, if you really have any interest left, that I believe they will tell you that line '7' controls the scroll speed, whereas it's line '5' as I said (there is also a very minor in-game adjustment to the scroll and that is using the 'brackets' on the keyboard).

I was pretty much like you, but over time I compared the two once I got the mouse and scroll straightened out, and for all the hassle adjusting SPWW2 may be, there's a number of SPWAW issues that gameplay-wise (assuming you can ever get over the sound/graphics difference) are just as large a hassle. One of the key differences for me was that the map height for SPWAW in campaigns gets no larger than 80 hexes (or maybe it as 120 on very rare occasion) and gets scruntched down to 40 hexes far too often. OTOH, SPWAW not only let's you play with a map that is wide enough to allow some flanking (200 hexes max.) but also comes with no surprises, as for each and every battle I can pick the map size on the fly (SPWAW will do this but only after altering the file in the editor, which, I could never get to work that way anyway).

Sounds to me like you've given up, but just try the scroll speed adjustment and maybe your foot will get in the door enough to where over a period of time you'lll be SP'ing the WW2 way too. Of course all SP talk will likely become superfluous once CL comes!

< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 9/9/2004 6:55:20 AM >

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/9/2004 7:22:44 PM

rich12545

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Interesting about line 5. I had tried 7 to no avail. The mouse problem I understand has a fix in a file that can be downloaded. The freezes I'm not so sure. That might be related to the fast scrolling. Surprisingly, the sound auto-configured and worked fine.

Yeah, I'll give it one more try. Thanks for the info.

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/9/2004 7:34:48 PM

Gallo Rojo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Interesting about line 5. I had tried 7 to no avail. The mouse problem I understand has a fix in a file that can be downloaded. The freezes I'm not so sure. That might be related to the fast scrolling. Surprisingly, the sound auto-configured and worked fine.

Yeah, I'll give it one more try. Thanks for the info.

to solve that solow-mouse problem you need a program called "mousetcl" or something like that. Make a search in Google searching for "DosBOX"; I think that the program is there.
I guess that SPMBT/WW2 Manual explains how to install it, and gives some help about how to run the games in Win XP.

Try that. If it doesn't work, post smthg here or sedme a PM and I 'll explain you how to do it. I don't do it right now 'cause it will take some time to writte the explanation in English for u, and I'm in a rush right now

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/9/2004 7:47:20 PM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Interesting about line 5. I had tried 7 to no avail. The mouse problem I understand has a fix in a file that can be downloaded. The freezes I'm not so sure. That might be related to the fast scrolling. Surprisingly, the sound auto-configured and worked fine.

Yeah, I'll give it one more try. Thanks for the info.

On another note: Make sure to view those instructions on setting up your desktop shortcut and what not, but pay very much attention to the issue of I think it's called 'other program sensitivity' as you have to switch it to one extreme or the other as I think it's as far right as you can slide it. If you don't your sound, at least in my case, will get choppy. I don't think they mentioned this affecting sound, as what they were talking about affecting it didn't bother me at all, so since my program ran fine (except for the sound differences unbeknowest to me) with other programs I deviated from their advice.

One other thing happened to me that may be related to this freeze you now mention, that is, that though the advice states to play it not in a window, mine goes to a black screen from the start like that (my former 98SE did not) so I then put mine to play in a window and it works fine.

Yeah, line 7 is actually a report ranges toggle, whereas there are different numbers for yards or meters, which of course the spww2ini.txt file explains better.

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/9/2004 10:14:09 PM

rich12545

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From: Palouse, WA
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WHOA! I did it.

Got that mouse file from the sandbox site. Modified the autoexec file they suggested and made a batch file for the game. This has the effect of making the mouse move faster and being able to adjust scrolling at the same time. Haven't had any more freezes yet either. Jeez, all this dos stuff brings back memories. Now I need to figure out how to make the units move slower, the options file doesn't seem to have any effect.

Thanks very much to Gallo and Charles.

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/10/2004 12:22:55 AM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

WHOA! I did it.

Got that mouse file from the sandbox site. Modified the autoexec file they suggested and made a batch file for the game. This has the effect of making the mouse move faster and being able to adjust scrolling at the same time. Haven't had any more freezes yet either. Jeez, all this dos stuff brings back memories. Now I need to figure out how to make the units move slower, the options file doesn't seem to have any effect.

Thanks very much to Gallo and Charles.

I think the slower movement thing comes down to one of the things that running a cpuslo type program comes in handy. It seems like it makes the messages easier to deal with too.

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Post #: 21

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/10/2004 12:53:51 AM

rich12545

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From: Palouse, WA
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Hmmm, tried moslo and it screwed things up.

What about op fire, melee, and overrun?

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/10/2004 7:16:17 AM

Gallo Rojo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

WHOA! I did it.
Thanks very much to Gallo and Charles.

You're welcome

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Now I need to figure out how to make the units move slower, the options file doesn't seem to have any effect.

Try decreasing the animation level in the General Preferences Screen

quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

What about op fire, melee, and overrun?

I'm afraid that you can't select the op-fire by clicking the mouse like in SPWaW. SPWW2 works like in the old days of SP I (or in SPWaW PBEM): you have to set range you want your units engage the enemy using the "y" key

about melee and overrun: it occurs "naturally" in the game: I mean, there's no hot-key for that: you just place a tank/infantry unit in a hex ocupied by an enemy infantry/atg unit and attack it usin the mouse pointer or the F key, and depending the experienc/unit-type/terrain/etc. your tank/infantry will overrun/engage in melee with the enemy

Just one more thing: SPWW2 and SPWAW plays very similar in many ways... but they play diferent in others... you'll have to addapt your tactics. SPWW2 is a slower game. You'll need more patience and move your units slower. Use frog-leap tactis. That's the best tactic in SPWW2 (as well as pop&shoot is the best for SPWAW).

In SPWW2, tanks have a slower speed, worst FC/RF, and less shoots... so you won't be able to take a PzIII, move it full range and fire 5 shoots against two Russian tanks with good chances to hit them... you have to relly much more in ambushes and that kind of thinks.

have fun

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RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/10/2004 4:01:59 PM

rich12545

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From: Palouse, WA
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Well, decreasing the animations doesn't do anything. And you can't use moslo and a batch file (needed to increase mouse speed) at the same time. I'm going to post on the yahoo board to see if anyone has an idea, otherwise I'll live with it. Toaw moves fast also and I live with that.

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Post #: 24

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/14/2004 2:24:30 AM

Warhorse

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Best thing about SPWW2 I think anyway? The HUMUNGOUS icon data base!!! Big surprise there, for all who know me, you know what I mean about that!!

Warhorse

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Post #: 25

RE: Generated Campaigns unplayable ? - 9/14/2004 5:06:31 PM

Charles2222

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rich12545

Hmmm, tried moslo and it screwed things up.

What about op fire, melee, and overrun?

Try this program out (turbo), though I will emphasize that though I have it, I don't use it much anymore. I think I used it more predominantly when I had little or no knowledge of the grander scroll adjustment in the ini file.

http://www.geocities.com/kulhain/

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Post #: 26