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RE: Best way to play each power

 
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RE: Best way to play each power - 8/23/2004 4:18:02 PM   
heychadwick

 

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Joined: 8/20/2004
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Someone posted earlier that it was not good to have Britian's fleet used the entire game bottling up France's fleet. I'm not sure how to avoid this from happening. I've used the Pippin Death Grip to great advantage before (though not quite called that) and it is a favorite to take out French fleets. Besides that, how else am I to avoid spending the whole game blockading France in?

(in reply to 9thlegere)
Post #: 31
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/23/2004 10:04:13 PM   
yammahoper

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 4/23/2004
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You can avoid having to blokade the French by placing garrisons in your ports, which prevents the French from sailing into a port with corps and England being unable to chase them away. Second, keep a respectable fleet presence near home/in the channel. During eco phases the brit will typically have to move last to insure his safety before porting his fleets to save money. Basically, if you ensure you have a sizable fleet close enough to all the sea hexes around england, the rest of the fleet can move at will and no one needs to be blockaded.

With the brits, you must stay aware of where enemy fleets and corps are in relation to each other, but only so far as "can that fleet pick up that corp and move it?" Keeping that in mind, you are free to range the waters. When fighting Spainand Turkey, those fleets are very valuable indeed, as is taking every last available island nation in the game, so you need to get use to moving those fleets about the board freely.

The greatest limitation in the game is the optional rule that slows multiple fleets down. I hate the rule, but have alsp played with it many times. Let me tell ya, that will cause you to keep no more than two fleets together in order to maintain enough movement to protect england proper.

One last note: if a nation does drop a corp or two in england, if you have garrisons in all your ports, you will have troops to fight with (always buy an extra corp or three). The enemy will and should stay out of supply, so a few won battles and enemy foraging should handle the rest.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to heychadwick)
Post #: 32
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 3:04:47 AM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
Well I have played this game for years and played many of the powers, but every time I go on boards and discuss what we have done and how we play people always act stunned and like the games we play are the most bizarre they ever heard of, that being said I will proceed. First though a note on bidding, we got tired of people bidding unrealistic amounts of VP to get the nation they wanted so we used an exclusive 10 points system: you can only bid 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, or 0 once; for example I may go France 10; Russia 9; Britain 8; Turkey 3; Spain 2; Prussia 1; Austria 0. Highest #s are compared first (all the 10s) and if a tie ensues, then a d6 is rolled, highest # getting country, then out of those who remain all the 9s, etc. People do not always get the country they wanted but noone ever got the one they hated the most.

FRANCE: NOTHING is as much fun as being 1805 France. You may lose, you may win, but the constant diplomacy, betrayal, chit pick suprises, die rolls, etc. will always give you something to discuss with your fellow players. As France, you need an ally, ANY ally. And when I say ally, it is someone who is going to join every war you are on as a pre-existing at the start of the scenario (which means Britain). On that note, you start at war with Britain, try to keep it that way. Tell the others that Britain OWES them $$$, especially Russia, and if there is not enough $$$ promised immediately, you will help them get their share by force. (See Spain below for Sack of Britain)
My first choice is Spain. Deep down Spain knows that Britain will always want her fleets at the bottom, and Britain for some reason always acts like the Spanish need to use their fleets to weaken the French for the British naval death blow (thus ensuring the safety of the channel), so this is frequently not as hard a sell as you would think. I tell Spain I will make them Dominant and I keep my word. There is NO reason to ever enter Spain, even if they are an opponent. I am not saying let them ravage France, but don't go across the border, there is no reason to give them free troops even if they are militia. If you can get Spain as an ally, stack with them AT SEA at the start (dont have my map, but you share a sea zone in the Atlantic). Odds are the British will use their entire fleet to smash you, but these are the best odds you will ever have in a fight with them and there is an 80 gun port to fall back on. In the event Russia decides to help, TAKE LONDON and go unconditional. Once London falls, you can do forced capitulation even if Russia backs out with a conditional peace (which actually only helps your goals - 2 peaces are more damaging than 1). Sow the fields with salt. Britain will never back off no matter how light a peace they get so strip them clean.
My second choice is Russia. If Spain is not on your side you will be fighting a holding action in the West so make sure that Austria/Prussia has a 2 front war too. Russia is frequently greedy for territory and you can offer them tons of other people's territories (you are Dominant, you just need to keep wars going with out losing to win the game). If they are a trustworthy player, you will have a 3-power Europe. The 2 of you can't take out Britain, but they are the only ones that will be able to stand against you. Tell Russia to declare right after the Prussians declare a pre-existing Poland (if they are good at decit, the Prussians might think the Russians are HELPING them by taking Poland, we called this the Russ Mind Ray - our Russia was frequntly played by a guy named Russ!)
My third choice is Turkey. Turkey is always $$$ starved and you usually need $$$ for your own armies, so they are not the best, but they will stretch the Austria/Prussia/Russia lines thinner. Encourage Turkey in the Ottoman dream, it keeps them energized and it costs you nothing since they cannot reasonably expect you to help much in that goal since you are not connected to Africa by land. Turkey is my one exception to the starting war rule with Britain. I tell Turkey to be deceitful. Get Britain to give them Ottoman (pointing out that they can always take it away if things go bad...) and lots of $$$ to get their troops in the field and that they will help with France once their morale is up and then turn when the time to fight France comes. By then they should have a stronger army than Britain and Britain will have a hard time taking Ottoman way especially with France pushing the Central Powers harder due to the Turkish ruse.
If you cannot get the above, try for Prussia, and focus on taking Italy and splitting the germans with Prussia (while carving up Austria) but you better really trust the Prussian since they really are best served by your defeat(s). We have had games with British "neutrality" but the negotiations to get around the pre-requisite surrender requirements to achieve this have been monumental and those alone (not to mention the power of the resulting alliance) have caused players to go play another game instead of waiting on 2 people for 8 hours :)
OVERALL STRATEGY is to always have an enemy but rarely (if ever) declare war. Two things are critical for France: war and supply. The PP machine for France is built off of land battles and you need to keep having them, so always have an enemy (Britain is good at the start but they will die quick if they are your only enemy). Tell the other powers they can have a free hand with the minors, you just want to kick British butt, roll on every control, but go to war over important ones like Holland and Sweden (Britain once gave me these gifts right off the bat and spent the rest of the game rebuilding her shattered fleets and economy). Usually you will Prussia/Austria/Britain at war with you at the start. Act scared of them and offer them all the minors they want. Every one they declare on gives you more troops and supply bases. French wars are best set up on a "rotation". Try to get your enemies on a rotation where every 6 months an enforced peace expires so you can fight one at a time and keep beating them. Strip them of money, and a few pieces of land but make sure they can make war again! You need an opponent (plus you look to be magnaminous in case you need them later, like if you never touch Prussia's land and Russia HAS gotten Dominant, the Prussians are excellently situated for you to ally with to get the Russian's non-Dominant again). Supply is the final aspect of French (and everyone's) strategy. Depots do not supply much and even with garrisons, supply chains are the easiest targets in the game. Keep in mind Napoleon won entire national surrenders from a single battle. Follow his example and only chase the big battle - learn from US Grant too and keep in mind, only key cities (Atlanta, Richmond, Vicksburg in Civil War, but Capitals in EiA) are worthy of capture, otherwise destroy your enemies' armies. Try to stay close to you borders, plan movement so that you can "auto" forage (forage roll is 6 for all corps), pay supply for those corps that can't auto forage and go last in land until you need the double move to engage the Great Victory ;) KEEP MILITIA IN YOUR RANKS. MANY people have argued this with me. They say that for the $$$, it is worth having only infantry in corps. If you place a few militia in your corps, you will lose .1 or .2 overall morale and can lose some cheap troops (ESPECIALLY if the people in your game do not use the proportional losses rule, nothing like having a 10 unit loss that you can soak with militia, but even proportional, you may be able to take 1 militia and that is $3 saved). I have seen more national armies destroyed from having to forage than from losing a battle, so the extra $$$ is important in my mind.

RUSSIA: As you can see from my bidding list (really in my order of favorites), Russia is my 2d favorite to play. Russia is the "free agent" of EiA. Everyone wants your help or at least your neutrality. Sweden is yours. Anyone who disagrees is your enemy. If Britain disagrees, tell them OK, they can have Sweden and Denmark but they better declare on them at the first round or you will on 2d Econ. Run to France and tell them you are going to help with the Sack of Britain and go to war with Britain when they declare on the Nordic minors (even if they just declare on Denmark). They will quickly be offering Sweden and MUCH more to get you away from the French. I tend to be ambivalent to Prussia and Austria. I tell Turkey that they need to focus on Ottoman (so what if they get it - they are not going to come into Russia and use it - they will die NOONE, not even Nappy, succeeds in a land war in Russia) and then do whatever they want and that you will keep the border unarmed if they will (even if they lie, who cares? As I said NOONE....).
OVERALL STRATEGY: Britain and France are the key people to be talking too. Think like a German Prince of this period. You have some mercenaries for sales, who wants them? Make them pay IN ADVANCE full price for each factor they want to have fighting for them (you will graciously eat the MP). They also need to reimburse your supply costs and full price for each factor that dies, if they fail to do this, your troops are heading home (you got some $$$ up front). France will usually tell you to kiss butt (they may buy part of your navy for the Sack of Britain), but to Britain you are offering them a way to make up for their weak army by using yours. They will usually offer a more moderate arrangement, but as long as you are not bearing all your costs, the British are good friends. Never forget that yours is the only army that can go toe-to-toe with France's. Make them come to you. Outside of the mercenary principle and taking Sweden (NOT IN WINTER - the infamous March of Neal lives to this day among us from where a Russia lost ALL his land factors executing a Winter Campaign by land against Sweden) there is no reason to venture far from home. Like France, you can use an enemy at all times to get PP, but you can go without longer than France can. If going for dominance, take the Austrain areas early and make it up them with Italian minors (if you are doing well, you can even give them the income from the provinces and tell them your Dominance will hurt France and help them). Prussia, on the other hand, will adjust. You can take their provinces at will and as long as the Austrains are not unduly offended (Dominance will hurt France...blah blah blah) there is no real need to appease them (Austria can wear the target for Turkey, Prussia cannot). Austria/Prussia should be viewed as "buffer states". Think like Stalin, their land is your land, their supply is your supply. The French have too much territory already and every step they make East is one step closer to making you fight. Only take what you need for Dominance (if that) and if Britain is not keeping them alive, you have to, even if your entire army has to be militia. Keep in mind though, while this is ultimately what you must do, do not let them know you think that way, even if you have to let them sweat it out for a while. Always act like you are doing everyone a big favor by even getting involved in these "European" problems.

BRITAIN: I hate playing Britain mostly because I hate beggars and whiners. I also hate the fact that I have to help defeat France and everyone knows it. That means carelessness by others, particularly Prussia and Austria, is paid for by me. As someone said here earlier, you must keep the anti-French coalition together. Give Russia Sweden (you can't take it anyway, not against the Russians), take Denmark (someone also pointed this out earlier, but it and N.Africa are defendable by sea - N. Africa due to the deserts), and mediate Africa. Either tell Spain and Turkey that you will hold Tunisia and keep both separated or convince Spain that a Ottoman Turkey will hold Russia off and secure Spain a good Italian empire. You must negotiate all the minors for everyone (who gets what) but agree minors will get taken care of once France is defeated. Then minors get grabbed, then hit France again. After that, everyone is free to act as they wish. France must fall twice to truly weaken it enough for it to be on a semi-equal footing with everyone else. I tell Spain that I will not build new ships if they do not so that we can focus on France and then offer $$$ proportional to MP to everyone in the alliance. Only ever block France's trade. $$$ is $$$. Even with Spain as an enemy, do not hit the Gold Fleet. Spain + France is bad for Britain and if you are not pouncing on Spain, they are more likely to stay neutral at the least. Get the French fleet! No matter where it is pursue it (don't impale on port guns), attack attack attack until it is no more. If it stacks with Spain at the start, you still have the odds with you, but try to gather all the allied fleets together (Turkish or Russian) and get greater numbers. I have never believed that Britain has anything to really offer Spain, so find out what they want and get it for them from the others (pointing out that France is the real enemy). Once the French fleet is sunk, you have a free hand navally which is where your military strategy comes into play. I keep a corps (even a minor one) in Britain, at a port, and use a mobile force to hit the French. If they are moving deep into Central Europe, I start taking French provincial capitals and costing them $$$. If they stay home, I jump isolated corps (remember the 8 space movement France can make) near the sea. If they are foolish enough to sea or coastal supply I cut supply. Almost forgot to add, Britain also need constant battle. Fleets only last so long in the game if you are doing your job right so you will need some land battles. Spread your corps throughout your allies' armies. Your morale (and leadership for some allies) helps them and they usually like getting 2 PP to your 1 (like trade, each individual spot you get less but you have more spots so overall you reap more PP).

OK I will do the other 4 later :b

< Message edited by Murat -- 8/23/2004 8:12:50 PM >

(in reply to heychadwick)
Post #: 33
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 6:09:57 AM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
OK, onward:

TURKEY: Next on the list is Turkey. My main goal is to become Ottoman. Spain tends to be the main block to this (maybe Britain if they take Tunisia to block you) so I talk to Spain first and see if they object (usually I offer them help in Italy and the rest of Africa). Next you need $$$ for your non-Feudal corps, to build troops and to supply the corps. This means you need British or French (or maybe even Russian) funding. Britain is obviously your best bet. They have the power to assure you get Ottoman and the money to keep you well supplied. Once you have Ottoman, the key to life is maintaining your borders and earning PP through helping others fight. Who you fight doesn't matter. I try to make it clear that I have no ambitions beyond being Ottoman and that usually keeps everyone happy with me (it does not however mean that they lack ambitions on me). France as an ally can be useful in that they will allow you to piggyback on Austrian defeats, but they will not be able to help you hold Ottoman unless the British fleet is severely weakened. Also the French cannot be as generous with funds as the British. Strangely, the Russians can be as generous as the British, but they often want neutrality from you since they plan on fighting you at some point for PP (usually after they are done with a French war and have gotten their corps close to the south). Still, if they are happy to get their PP elsewhere, the "edge of the board" alliance can be very profitable for both of you.

SPAIN: Holy decaying empires! The Robin of the EiA world, Spain, the sidekick. Spain will need to talk to only 2 people: France and Britain. Either you are helping the British gain absolute command of the seas or you are aiding the French in Fortress Europe, with a possibility of the Sack of Britain. As Spain I usually tend to go with the French option. Britain has little to offer (they are not REALLY going to give you Gibraltar and Malta back no matter what they tell you) and mostly want you to impale your fleet on the French to soften them up for victory (usually with you losing PP for the impale and Britain gaining for the victory) since Britain does not want to combine move navally. You do make a nice base (and combine land move) for the British to work from and make inroads to France, and can gain some PP this way, but if you are going to lose PP at sea and win PP on Land, why not join France where you will get LOTS of PP at land (not to mention serve under some of the best generals ever) and you may even get PP from sea (not to mention Gilbraltar and Malta if the Sack of Britain occurs). Regardless of your choice, stack with your ally and follow their victories. If you are trying for Dominance (a price France can easily pay since you do not stop French land move, do stop British naval move, and France can get you your victories quickly once the 1st Coalition is broken) then your ally can help you rampage the necessary 5 provinces. One game Spain even saved my France since I had never attacked him, he chose a corps on loan when I had to surrender to the coalition (took unconditional with Russia, Turkey, Spain - bad bad 7 -v- 1 war) and my army was saved. I never asked for peace again that game and although Spain paid by invasion from her allies, I made her Dominant by the end. Some may disagree, but stick with France and you will not regret it (as long as they are honorable).

PRUSSIA: Good old Prussia. Prussia is as much fun as a sack full of wildcats as they say in these parts ;) Prussia should have 2 constants: alliance with Austria and alliance with Britain. No matter what, Prussia lives or dies hand-in-hand with Austria. A Prussia/France alliance is a nice thought, but France is really using you to take the minors that do not award PP for combining (France would LOVE to make Poland.....) and for bases to launch a few forays into Russia who will not be very forgiving when peace comes between Russia and France. If you actually get offered surrender, take conditional every time or you will not be getting peace. Russia and France have no reason not to spurn your unconditional and leave you in the war just to recoup their PP (and even decimated by factor death they still outnumber and outgeneral you). Save LOTS of MP. This unique ability can turn the tide at unsuspected moments. Nothing scares Russian and French armies as the fact that you can suddenly pop up 20 militia on their supply lines. Austria, while you ally, should not be handed Dominance to "hold off France". Your life is foreit at that point. Their fear is your gain. Once of the keys to the Austro-Prussian alliance is set up. The most difficult part is to decide what France's intentions are, and Spain is usually the one to ask. If Spain indicates they are doing a pro-French alliance (and they will tell you for the most part since they want Britain to know and they know you will tell Britain and their French alliance really doesn't harm you directly.....) you will need to combine with the Austrians quickly, preferably at the French border. Regardless, set up all your corps exactly 5 spaces from the French border, this prevents them from double moving and starting the Great Battle. Yes it will take you a couple turns to move on France if you need to, but it will also cause France to go deeply East if they really want to get the Great Battle (and once they have a supply line, cut it). As for the British alliance, they need you as much as you need them. They have $$$, you have MP and cav. True, once the French fleet is at the bottom of the sea they can sit back and let Fortress Europe be made, but usually they are very attached to their German States and they can't truly "win" unless they fight and beat France. Encourage them to build you cav to supplement their Inf and offer stacking with them - remember this whole era ended due to the British/Prussian stacking!

AUSTRIA: Good news and bad news. Good news: you know your eternal enemy is France and your eternal ally is Britain; Bad news: Russia, Turkey, Prussia and Spain may all want to carve you up. As with Prussia (above) the Austro-Prussian alliance is key. You need to set up your troops exactly 5 spaces from the French borders. this is often hard for Austrians to do since they focus on the easy minors at hand but it is imperative. You cannot afford to have France trounce you while you are divided from the Prussian and Russians. You have to convince Russia to join the alliance by assisting them in all things but Dominance. A Dominant leaning Russia is more dangerous to you than France (France doesn't need your territories, they just need your army to beat up on). Some games have even required an Austro-Prussian attack to dissuade Russia and insure a peaceful border for several months. Try to get Russia to set up on your border and move on the shortest path to the French front. Keep in mind the French need battle, use that against them. Get your forces concentrated on ground of your choice, ideally 8 spaces from the advancing French with some Cav corps 1 space back. This forces the French to double move to fight and lets your cav corps kill any depots the French use forcing them to forage home (watch their creative movement after losing their supply depot). In the event the French are poised to Sack Britain, move to the southern French border and then SCATTER trying to do 1 corps per spot (3 factors helps, enough to kill a garrison factor and acceptable casualties when the French jump it with a full corp). Yes the French will be all over you and you will get sacked for PP but they cannot afford to ignore you and you can regroup at a central spot. Britain will reward you for your losses and you can count on regaining those PP when the Russians arrive. Give Turkey free hand at Ottoman and ignore Spain.

SWEDEN: There is a variant where Sweden is a major (one for Holland too O_O) power. Avoid it like the plague. Sweden is the one nation I never played. Our group used this once and while we are all friends, we do not pull punches. Sweden ceased to exist. Actually our Spain left (same game where Spain saved me!) due to a sound verbal thrashing over letting French corps live to rampage Praustria so our Sweden got a week off and was back. Sweden starts off with the ability to whoop on the Russians at sea and the Spanish on land (NOT vice versa). If you are using the "3 core territory rule" (we were not) Sweden is doable since they have 3 territories, but they will be broke and have no army beyond what they start with (if I recall they are a 40/18 nation) and will be a pawn for the entire game, which is no fun. Better to play with the original 7.

GMing: OK, not really a country but I thought about it and figured I better put my 2 cents in here too. I only did this once and it was a lot of fun. You get to learn a lot about other players (especially their loyalties and their machiavellian natures) and you know how things turn out. Unfortunately I was boring as I learned later by seeing others. I would report the chit pick and the die roll and the casualties and a very statistical report on each turn. I much prefer the GMs who write up battle reports instead of giving the results statistically like:

quote:

October, 1813, Battle of Dogger Bank: Lord Admiral Nelson and his flagship Revenge, HMS Thunderer, HMS America, HMS Valiant, HMS Valkyrie, along with 15 frigates and 20 transports soundly thrashed the French raider Riposte and her 3 escorts. Riposte was captured and is being refitted in Glasgow, the escorts were sent to the bottom of the North Sea. We suffered one casualty when the Bowswains Mate on HMS Valkyrie, Master Tomlinson, was hit by an unsecured bucket and fell overboard unconscious mid battle. He drowned before it was noticed he had gone overboard but his body was retrieved and accorded full military honors.


Instead of: 15 factor British fleet met 1 factor French, British lost 0 factors, French lost 1 factor, +1 PP British, -1 PP French

Being Gm is a lot of fun, especially if you are playing a different game at the same time, and people really love you for doing it (they will even send you REAL LIVE CASH!!! to buy you a pizza and some Coke sometimes).

< Message edited by Murat -- 8/23/2004 11:14:03 PM >

(in reply to heychadwick)
Post #: 34
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 1:14:50 PM   
fjbn

 

Posts: 79
Joined: 6/24/2004
From: Cordoba, Spain
Status: offline
I think your analisis about Russia strategy is not correct. Your strategy, followed by many other russian players, is the main reason why France wins many games. An individual strategy ends in France's victory, because she has a much bigger army and better leaders. If you atack Prussia and Austria, they will see that a later coalition with France against you is very interesting, and you will lose all your gains, because you're not strong enough to face them and France will force your surrender.
So you have to defeat France with Prussia and Austria. You don't need the whole army. In fact, 20-30 factors and Bagration is enough to reinforce Prussian army. You say that Prussia must pay for it. I disagree.This is your contribution to defeat your main adversary to victory. If France is defeated, you are at the top without serious losses and you have forces enough to atack Sweden in spring, keeping at bay a good army in reserve. Turkey is not an oponnent because Moscow is too far, and Prussia and Austria, seriously weakened because they carried the weight in the fight against France, won't be a serious menace.

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 35
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 5:12:11 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline
If I am playing and not France I almost always try to work with others to defeat France right away, especially if they have bid big PP to play her

Once France has been humbled once you can roll out the other plans you have been secretly negotiating.

(in reply to fjbn)
Post #: 36
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 5:23:17 PM   
heychadwick

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

yammahoper@yahoo.com


What about the French forming a beachhead? I fear that if the french were able to get a few divisions on British soil, that they would have London before too long. It would be quite a blow if London were to fall to the French. Do you believe that a strong naval presence around France would be enough to protect it? Couldn't the French move up and around to land some troops via beachhead? The march south for the French would be short and not require much, I fear.

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 37
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 6:55:02 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fjbn

I think your analisis about Russia strategy is not correct. Your strategy, followed by many other russian players, is the main reason why France wins many games. An individual strategy ends in France's victory, because she has a much bigger army and better leaders. If you atack Prussia and Austria, they will see that a later coalition with France against you is very interesting, and you will lose all your gains, because you're not strong enough to face them and France will force your surrender.
So you have to defeat France with Prussia and Austria. You don't need the whole army. In fact, 20-30 factors and Bagration is enough to reinforce Prussian army. You say that Prussia must pay for it. I disagree.This is your contribution to defeat your main adversary to victory. If France is defeated, you are at the top without serious losses and you have forces enough to atack Sweden in spring, keeping at bay a good army in reserve. Turkey is not an oponnent because Moscow is too far, and Prussia and Austria, seriously weakened because they carried the weight in the fight against France, won't be a serious menace.


You misread my Russian strategy. I said Britain and France have to pay for your war against the other if they want you in it (Britain must pay if they want you attacking France, France must pay if they want you attacking Britain). I never said Prussia had to pay for anything (they can't afford it and they would certainly wonder where all your $$$ is going). You also say in one paragraph that you cannot stand against France/Prussia/Austria (believe me, they cannot force capitulate you and they cannot afford to feed themselves too deep into Russia, and loss of their supply chain = Grand Army Retreat and we all know how THAT went) and then in the next say that Prussia/Austria will be too weak to oppose you Regardless, if you reread, I said that if you were going for Dominance, get it EARLY. And yes, I implied that it is OK to go dominant. It stings Austria/Prussia, but it is CRIPPLING to France, she loses her double move ablity (yes she can still move 4 MPs to your 3, but now morale is equal) and you have extra $$$ to keep the Central Powers fighting France (and can help their morale by mixing in with their stacks) The reason I said it has to be done early, and that you have to get them minors to make up for the losses, is that, as I said a little further on, you must keep Prussia/Austria fighting against France even if YOU are paying for it. Out of the two, you MUST keep Austria happy. Prussia can go against you, but as long as Austria thinks they are at fault you are OK. Austria will even press Britain hard for $$$ and let you keep a strong treasury as long as you get $$$ into their hands when they need it (you would be stunned what buying 3 cav for the Austrians on Econ 1 will do for long term relations - you thought dogs were loyal?) While Austria/Prussia(/France) cannot get your surrender (without some SERIOUS errors on your part), they can damage your ability to get PP. Actually, a surrender in the Franco-Austrain war by EITHER side is not good for your PP. Constant war and victory is the best way to win PP (losses of course are a quick way to lose PP too, which is why you must choose your battles well). Short version: always appear to be less of a threat than France.

I have seen more French victories come from the Coalition defeating France only to have the British/Austrian/Prussian (and they can usually add Turkey too) immediately turn on Russia and take out her armies since she is seen as the "big threat" after 1 French defeat. France can take a defeat and still come back for the second war and TROUNCE her enemies and a neutral Russia (usually licking wounds from a British encouraged betrayal) certainly would not help. I have also seen greedy Russias go for Dominance and hit Prussia/Austria at the start but even if you are one of these people, you have to replace what you take from the german and italian minors (I even suggested giving the $$$ from the captured home provinces to the Central Powers). BUT at least we agree that Turkey is no real threat

*** All of this brings up some interesting points: we used crossing arrows in all our games, without them Britain is MUCH more secure against invasion (and so is Denmark). BUT the main thing I thought about is that we had a sort of "secret loan" deal. While someone could always check your sheet and see where your $$$ was going, they had to ASK and often people would be too wrapped up in their own affairs to do that simple task. In addition, you just allocated $$$ to "loans" as a whole not identifying to whom so while Britain could make sure all the loans balanced, they were never TOTALLY sure who gave $$$ to whom. I channeled much loot to the Central Powers with Britain thinking I was being useless and offering more than they would have if they knew my true loans (I gave Turkey that $20, France is lying, they are building the Prussians up against me). Ona side note it was another reason I hated being Britain, did not like having to check everyone math every econ phase We usually get stingy British - not sure why, they will pay, but just enough to win, no more. The secret loans were something I really liked, it kept British $$$ flowing against France. We also had limits on diplomacy time: 30 minutes for the very first one, 15 min for each econ phase, 5 min between turns, everything else was over the table. Over the table stuff was fun too since you could agree in private that Turkey could get Ottoman and then act stunned over the table when they started to take it ("I thought I told you no Ottoman.....you %^#*%@" "I'm stopping at Tunisia!"). Also, if you wanted an unconditional surrender in our group, be ready to force capitulation. Trying to hold all those provincial capitals while your spread out corps are getting nipped at for 1 PP losses is frustrating and often led to a conditional just to net better PP (and a quicker return to battle).

AAAAAND (the reason I brought up crossing arrows).....

quote:

ORIGINAL: heychadwick

What about the French forming a beachhead? I fear that if the french were able to get a few divisions on British soil, that they would have London before too long. It would be quite a blow if London were to fall to the French. Do you believe that a strong naval presence around France would be enough to protect it? Couldn't the French move up and around to land some troops via beachhead? The march south for the French would be short and not require much, I fear.


We actually marched north from Lille due to crossing arrows. As long as no British fleet presence in the Channel (and then the Irish Sea if you have to force capitulation, which France usually has to do becuase of her requirements for making peace with Britain). Needless to say, the British Fleet must be a shadow of itself (and if you have the Colonial Fleet optional rule in effect, those extra ships will appear VERY fast) and you must move quickly. I can't imagine a successful amphibious invasion scenario so long as the British can attack fleets. You would either be loading up enough troops to land the army in one shot and risking sinking of fleet factors (and resulting loss of land factors from reduced naval capacity - we used that rule too - the limited capacity - no 1 corps/1 fleet deal) or you have to move in stages with a lot more naval battles, which the British can win even when the odds are against them. If we did the Sack of Britain, it was how the game started and it was never repeated again (people seem to be OK with one hit but that second one is deemed too risky, then again, Britain rebuilds those hulks pretty quick).

< Message edited by Murat -- 8/24/2004 12:49:21 PM >

(in reply to fjbn)
Post #: 38
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/24/2004 11:53:59 PM   
yammahoper

 

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One fleet in the channel prevents any French crossing, assuming you use the optional land crossing in the rules (we did most of the time). If the board situation shows a threat of the french attempting to invade, then the Brits need to pick when to move in the naval phase carefully, which should allow them to stop an invasion force.

If your port guns are manned, no enemy fleet can eneter the port to disembark troops, so he will have to do so from the open sea hex or blockade box. Thus, if you engage the enemy fleets and win the battle, no troops will be able to land after they flee to the nearest enemy port.

Is the situation sometimes tense? sure it is. It helps to have the army at home or lots of troops in garrisons, a not so hard to achieve situation after taking a bunch of conquerds. I have had every city in Britain filled with troops, even had to begin placing them in north african cities I had so many. It is a long game, and certainly in the beginning you have to play a bit more cautious than later, but Britain has enough defense to allow for a respectable pffense with both army and fleets. I will note that I was once invaded while my army was in Egypt. I had to disband the army and place new corps in Britain proper to fight the invader and do it with out my cav corp. Was very painful indeed.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to heychadwick)
Post #: 39
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/25/2004 5:41:35 AM   
Pippin


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The way I look at it, Britain's army is a joke. Hell, she starts off with the worst shaped army on the whole board. Lets see, she has a guard counter, but what good is it? Doesn't seem to make much damn difference. Hell, she can not even use the guard unit to commit the guard on a level 1 or 2, or anything. Cavalry can only go into 1 counter, which only holds up to 8 units. You want to add a cavalry leader? Sorry, you can not get any army leaders until after a year of play. And then you only get to put down 1 leader, wait another whole year for another, and another year for the last one, with a total of 3 leaders only.

What about the size of the counters? Well, sorry but they are not thick enough to squeeze in too many factors. So despite your enemy can't see what you got in those, he can make a worst case guestimate, fairly easy.

Oh ya, no toys to play with like cannons either.


It is damn good for Britain she has a navy worth something, because she certainly is no match for a corps battle. And if she messes up her navy at any time.. she will be stuck doing a repeated surrender loop for the rest of the game vs any group of competant players.

IMHO of course... anyone disagree?

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 40
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/25/2004 7:34:40 AM   
YohanTM2

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com

One fleet in the channel prevents any French crossing, assuming you use the optional land crossing in the rules (we did most of the time). If the board situation shows a threat of the french attempting to invade, then the Brits need to pick when to move in the naval phase carefully, which should allow them to stop an invasion force.

If your port guns are manned, no enemy fleet can eneter the port to disembark troops, so he will have to do so from the open sea hex or blockade box. Thus, if you engage the enemy fleets and win the battle, no troops will be able to land after they flee to the nearest enemy port.

Is the situation sometimes tense? sure it is. It helps to have the army at home or lots of troops in garrisons, a not so hard to achieve situation after taking a bunch of conquerds. I have had every city in Britain filled with troops, even had to begin placing them in north african cities I had so many. It is a long game, and certainly in the beginning you have to play a bit more cautious than later, but Britain has enough defense to allow for a respectable pffense with both army and fleets. I will note that I was once invaded while my army was in Egypt. I had to disband the army and place new corps in Britain proper to fight the invader and do it with out my cav corp. Was very painful indeed.

yamma


I never understood how anyone could suggest in 1805-1815 that the Channel was a potential land crossing. I have never heard one realistic arguement that validates this option.

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 41
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/25/2004 11:10:23 AM   
Murat


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It (and the other crossing arrows) is based on the idea that so long as no enemy fleet is present you can use small boats to ferry your troops across. It is POSSIBLE and was done or tried in just about every era (Roman Invasion, Viking Incursions, Anglo-Saxon/Danish Invasions, Norman Invasion, Hundred Years War, Spanish Armada [used big ships], American Revolution [it was possible to do, keep in mind John Paul Jones ruled the English coast for almost a year with 4 converted merchantmen! and caused the recall of Admiral Howe to British home waters], Nappy had a plan for it [if that one-armed one-eyed bastard had not sunk his whole fleet], Dunkirk aaaaaaaannnnnnd....... D-Day/Overlord).

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 42
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/25/2004 11:42:29 AM   
tabpub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

The way I look at it, Britain's army is a joke. Hell, she starts off with the worst shaped army on the whole board. Lets see, she has a guard counter, but what good is it? Doesn't seem to make much damn difference. Hell, she can not even use the guard unit to commit the guard on a level 1 or 2, or anything. Cavalry can only go into 1 counter, which only holds up to 8 units. You want to add a cavalry leader? Sorry, you can not get any army leaders until after a year of play. And then you only get to put down 1 leader, wait another whole year for another, and another year for the last one, with a total of 3 leaders only.

What about the size of the counters? Well, sorry but they are not thick enough to squeeze in too many factors. So despite your enemy can't see what you got in those, he can make a worst case guestimate, fairly easy.

Oh ya, no toys to play with like cannons either.


It is damn good for Britain she has a navy worth something, because she certainly is no match for a corps battle. And if she messes up her navy at any time.. she will be stuck doing a repeated surrender loop for the rest of the game vs any group of competant players.

IMHO of course... anyone disagree?

Well Pip, old boy..(I may call you that..?)
I think that in and of itself, I would agree. Now, mind you, I don't have a lot of EIA under my belt (it is just tough to find the players and the time for it FTF), but I think that the whole thing for the British to do is fight with some minor Free State forces or allies to help out the situation. If they have the Portuguese or some Spanish to bulk them up while they provide the morale boost, on paper that would seem to balance the equation out. I guess, in short, the English need to have some friends with them to make them into a more sizeable threat.

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 43
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/25/2004 9:03:32 PM   
YohanTM2

 

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I agree tabpub,

Britian needs allies and usually has the filthy lucre required to get them.

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 44
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 5:06:52 AM   
Murat


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From: South Carolina
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Nooooooo. Help Nappy! Why beg for British lucre when you TAKE it (besides, they are dominationg YOUR trade, why should they have a monopoly on YOUR trade?).

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 45
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 8:13:01 AM   
carnifex


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quote:

Thus, if you engage the enemy fleets and win the battle, no troops will be able to land after they flee to the nearest enemy port.


what if the defeated player doesn't want to retreat to a port and the naval battle took place in the english channel sea zone? how do you prevent a landing then?

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 46
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 8:31:56 AM   
eg0master

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

quote:

Thus, if you engage the enemy fleets and win the battle, no troops will be able to land after they flee to the nearest enemy port.


what if the defeated player doesn't want to retreat to a port and the naval battle took place in the english channel sea zone? how do you prevent a landing then?


I don't think want is the right word. According to rules you must retreat to the nearist unblockaded port within 7 sea areas. If no such port exist, you retreat one sea area. So the probability france and spain has one such port within 7 sea areas is quite large...

_____________________________

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 47
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 9:02:30 AM   
pfnognoff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eg0master

quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

quote:

Thus, if you engage the enemy fleets and win the battle, no troops will be able to land after they flee to the nearest enemy port.


what if the defeated player doesn't want to retreat to a port and the naval battle took place in the english channel sea zone? how do you prevent a landing then?


I don't think want is the right word. According to rules you must retreat to the nearist unblockaded port within 7 sea areas. If no such port exist, you retreat one sea area. So the probability france and spain has one such port within 7 sea areas is quite large...


Nope. As usual rules should be read from the begining all the way to the end

6.5.3.1.1. If no eligible port is available, OR AT THE LOSER'S OPTION, the loser retreats to any one adjacent sea area of the victor's choice (a sea area into which movement is not possible may not be selected). Retreating or pursuing fleets may not be intercepted. In this case there is no pursuit and the victor remains in the area where the combat occurred.

I guess you should better strengthen your blockade fleets

(in reply to eg0master)
Post #: 48
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 12:50:41 PM   
Pippin


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IIRC, in EIA the loser does have the option to not duck tail and run to port. So, if I am Britain, and I have blasted the french fleet, I will try to make sure my choice of seazone for him will be the worst one for him, (or best one for me). Try to push him into a zone which will give you the best chances for interception for when he tries to land. Or if he is at war with another nation, try and push his stack into the hex that leaves him vulnerable to as many opponents as possible. Now, it is true he has some protection while considered retreating, however there are some interresting block & trap tactics you can do with an ally or two... :P

Quite a few variables here if you can 'think out of the box'...

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to pfnognoff)
Post #: 49
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 6:04:09 PM   
carnifex


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quote:

OR AT THE LOSER'S OPTION,


It was precisely those 5 words which caused the destruction of the Franco-Turko-Spanish fleet in one of the games I played. GB and Russia were maneuvering to to combine their fleets to face the others, but circumstances allowed the Russian fleet to be engaged separately. It lost the battle and the French alliance was all sneers and taunts at being able to now blockade the Russians while still formidable enough to face Britain. The Russian player however, chose to stay. Jaws dropped. No one had ever read those five words I guess. Arguments ensued and the rules were shown. The next opportunity the Russian and British fleets combined, crushed the French alliance fleet, which then mistakenly assumed that Antwerp's 80 guns would protect them. They did not. After two turns of running the guns and filling Antwerp's harbor with driftwood, surrenders were given and accepted.

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 50
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/26/2004 10:47:06 PM   
fjbn

 

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Anyway, it seems that it will be harder to defeat Royal Navy in MG release, because it seems that naval rules will be based on EiH, and Navy has much better morale than other fleets.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 51
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/27/2004 12:10:04 AM   
yammahoper

 

Posts: 231
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If he opts not to flee, place him in a hex that is not adjacent to land, and all the corps die. Failing that, place him in a hex that is not adjacent to England. I have played England many times and have faced several determined invasions. They all failed. The island is quite secure. Yes, you must pay attention, close attention, but in a game as demanding as EiA, that is par for the course.

As far as GB 80 factor army...it is an effective force. I also never understood the guard factor. I can recall playing a game where Sp, Tu and GB #1 corp had been expanded to allow 2 gaurd and the nations allowed to commit for a one colum shift. I never did use my guard as GB, but it did not upset the game either. Personally, I always loved the idea of elite Jannisary charging into battle, ready to relive the glory days when they were feared throughout Europe. Ah Sulyman, where have you gone?

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to fjbn)
Post #: 52
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/28/2004 2:39:45 PM   
eg0master

 

Posts: 161
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From: Stockholm, Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pfnognoff

quote:

ORIGINAL: eg0master

quote:

ORIGINAL: carnifex

quote:

Thus, if you engage the enemy fleets and win the battle, no troops will be able to land after they flee to the nearest enemy port.


what if the defeated player doesn't want to retreat to a port and the naval battle took place in the english channel sea zone? how do you prevent a landing then?


I don't think want is the right word. According to rules you must retreat to the nearist unblockaded port within 7 sea areas. If no such port exist, you retreat one sea area. So the probability france and spain has one such port within 7 sea areas is quite large...


Nope. As usual rules should be read from the begining all the way to the end

6.5.3.1.1. If no eligible port is available, OR AT THE LOSER'S OPTION, the loser retreats to any one adjacent sea area of the victor's choice (a sea area into which movement is not possible may not be selected). Retreating or pursuing fleets may not be intercepted. In this case there is no pursuit and the victor remains in the area where the combat occurred.

I guess you should better strengthen your blockade fleets


Ooops... missed that "or"...

_____________________________

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not.

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Post #: 53
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/28/2004 3:11:51 PM   
heychadwick

 

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I recall one time I was distracted by a shiny and reflective spainish fleet that was moving up to ferry french soliders. I pounced and destroyed the fleets, but realized with horror that I had left the channel open. French armies double-timed it up there and poured into Britain. I tried to hold out, but ended up surrendering after almost a year after loosing London.

(in reply to eg0master)
Post #: 54
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/29/2004 4:55:33 PM   
yammahoper

 

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Yes, one slip can hurt a lot. I once played a session while drinking froma case of beer. I never did that again! We always played with the 10factors per fleet rule, and once while shipping an allies fleet around Spain to North Africa, I forgot to port the fleet, and they corp was destroyed. I have always felt both a certain sense of horrow at the sensless loss and indignant that my freinds would not allow me to back up and save the corp (based on the arguement those men on board would not allow themselves to be starved to death at sea).

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to heychadwick)
Post #: 55
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/29/2004 9:42:53 PM   
Murat


Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
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quote:

ORIGINAL: yammahoper@yahoo.com

Yes, one slip can hurt a lot. I once played a session while drinking froma case of beer. I never did that again! We always played with the 10factors per fleet rule, and once while shipping an allies fleet around Spain to North Africa, I forgot to port the fleet, and they corp was destroyed. I have always felt both a certain sense of horrow at the sensless loss and indignant that my freinds would not allow me to back up and save the corp (based on the arguement those men on board would not allow themselves to be starved to death at sea).

yamma


I agree, they wouldn't, they would have killed off the sailors, so you should have had some hulks to roll for and try to get back to a port

(in reply to yammahoper)
Post #: 56
RE: Best way to play each power - 8/29/2004 11:26:35 PM   
fjbn

 

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I remember a case still better. Russia from Corfu tried to disembark in Corsica and he forgot to disembark the corp twice!. The men from the two lost corps deserved a better leadership, but you know, vodka.

(in reply to Murat)
Post #: 57
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/11/2004 7:36:34 PM   
Irish Guards


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Preview
RE: Best way to play each power
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, lots of variety in strategies and how people play .... that what makes the game so outstanding. I have no set strategy other then starting the first turn and seeing the board.

What I mean is the actual OOB for each country, opening allies and DOW's. This gives me a fairly comprehensive view of the situation and possibilities that are worthwhile.

I read the forums and don't comment very much as far as good or bad ideas, as each nation seeks to control their sphere of influence, minors and such. Certain nations start with some serious defencies, no leaders as in Prussia's and GB's case, besides Nelson of course, and I love to see the Brits and anyone else trying to attack strong ports,what a roit. The ships that die are solid money down the tubes, and a bad result for GB and they are seriouly weakened for years. Nations who set up fleets and don't have corp and leader there give a very good idea as far as how competent they are at the game.

As France you must take early advantage of all options as they present themselves which leads to an adaptable and flexible situation, not an easy task at all, but the gains are immense as far as the first few turns. DOW's on Pru and gaining of minors are high on priorities, PP and corps you get from free state and conq.

Napoleon must look to diplomacy as to reach objectives and warfare with minors and Nations will gain territory and threaten strategic board areas. Early attacks by GB on Den or Portugal will make enemies of powers for little gain.

Production must be maximized in many cases to obtain favorable results, and a complex building program must be implemented to achieve future conquests for the least amount of losses. The balance of power on board is crucial in the 1st few quarters, France must take advantage of it or they will be in a sad situation very early in 1805. I believe they have 1 year to damage potential adversaries, then a new year starts and France must again reevaluate the situation.

I have seen some bazaar moves and some very good moves, what it depends on mostly is the caliber of player and the ability to adapt to new board situations immediately and this means preperation and ability to bring forces to bear, if you are not able to retaliate to moves by other Nations then you will watch from the sidelines, wow lots of fun eh ..!!

I will be playing numerous games when this is available and look forward to all aspects new players bring to challenge the dominance of Europe for the Napoleonic Wars.

Irish Guards


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(in reply to fjbn)
Post #: 58
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/14/2004 4:44:17 AM   
montesaurus

 

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Here is a tactic I used as the French against the British. Any time the Brit. declares war on a minor that France gets control of, I would place Ney in charge of the minor stack during the reinforcement phase(keeping him off the board and ready for this)! This can be especailly painful for the British early in the game when they have little infantry to spare. This occurred when GB declared war on Cyrenaica. When he landed I had Ney incharge of the corp 5I and 5C. Since the GB has no officers the first year or two all they have is their good morale to save them. So, I would always have a positive modifier for the die roll. I actually obtained a draw the first battle we fought. If I remember correct I stayed around for one more round before I took Ney off in the next Reinforcement phase. But I caused the Brit to have 4 casualties. It doesn't seem like a lot but when you start with only 20I it's pretty significant! Took Cyrenaica 6 months of production to replace those losses!

_____________________________

montesaurus
French Player in Going Again II 1792

(in reply to 9thlegere)
Post #: 59
RE: Best way to play each power - 9/14/2004 10:31:12 AM   
fjbn

 

Posts: 79
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From: Cordoba, Spain
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Mmmm. Is your use of Ney llegal?. It surprise me. I think that you control Cirenaica for defence, it´s not really a FS.

BTW, Britain has 19 Inf, and Cirenaica is 1/2, so, if British lost 4 Inf, it will take a whole year to replace the losses.

(in reply to montesaurus)
Post #: 60
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