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Tom Clancy.. - 9/13/2004 7:10:17 PM   
Pippin


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Lately I’ve had a bit more time on my hands and figured why not finish reading all those Tom Clancy books I have had lying around since 96. My god, those are like 10 years now! Time sure flies fast when you get older.

Thing is, going back now and reading it seems to me that his knowledge I once THOUGHT he had, seems to be very little on the subjects he actually writes. The more I read, the more this seems to become evident to me. Perhaps when I was younger I was a bit more gullible.

Is it just me or, Clancy is really just a normal writer doing some poor fiction, which just happens to be of interest to enough of the American public, which in turn earned him the #1 Best Seller title?

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Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…
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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/13/2004 7:34:24 PM   
Challerain

 

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Probably somewhere in the middle. His earlier books, especially Red Storm Rising, were very entertaining. His later books much less so.

I thought the technical details in Red October and Red Storm Rising were good, but maybe that is because he worked with Larry Bond on those books.

(in reply to Pippin)
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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/14/2004 11:30:12 AM   
Adnan Meshuggi

 

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well, it is the problem of "how do i create a situation the great american hero(s) in the book can solve against all odds"...
it sound interesting but in the end, it is a endless loop.... just Red Storm Rising has this flaw... the evil russkis invade germany because they want oil... yes, very very realistic... and then the icland scenario... the russkis kick allied asses, but in the end the good and great americans save the world...

this is, more or less the story of all his books... there are good moments in his books, but too often and to much of this bs come into it... as newer as worser they are... but they are sucsessful, cause the audience love them. And honestly, i have no problem with it. Why not - there are many more even worser authors in the world. It is sad that he do not use his abilities to make "good" and "balanced" books without the boring sterotypes... but this is only my pov. others here will love his methods to write.. it is glady just something about everybodies personal attitude.... i stopped buying his books, ohter will love em. I bet you get cooked for critizise him cause his fans will disagree to your or my position. Maybe you disagree to my position also... but honestly, after Shakespear and Göthe for the classic literature and Tolkin for the fantasy it is difficulty to create a style everybody will agree is great... too many people have too many opinions, but this is good.

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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/14/2004 3:26:55 PM   
ElvisDaKing


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Challerain

Probably somewhere in the middle. His earlier books, especially Red Storm Rising, were very entertaining. His later books much less so.

I thought the technical details in Red October and Red Storm Rising were good, but maybe that is because he worked with Larry Bond on those books.


I agree, but to be honest the reason I stop buying/reading his latest books is because of the obvious political speech sweating via his hero J. Ryan, who became US President.
Anybody is free to have different political views, and they should be respected, but I think it is a dishonest and disturbing way to put his views in the mouth of J.Ryan, when you have bought the novel for the action and the suspense...

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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/14/2004 4:32:06 PM   
Hexed Gamer


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Clancy is just a writer, you eventually end up milking an approach to death. Then it's time to move on.

Some won't move on.

Stephen King's works, Robert Jordan's works, everything has to end sometime eh.

Some wish the Stones would just stop singing too :)

(in reply to ElvisDaKing)
Post #: 5
RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/14/2004 5:43:28 PM   
freeboy

 

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Yet Clancy went from so good, I have re-read several of his early books multiple times, especially like Cardinal.. and Red Storm... But these more recent work seem Ghost written, very formulistic.. just my .02

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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/14/2004 6:02:40 PM   
Hexed Gamer


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Clancy has always been Clancy, he had a few good stories in him, we likely all have a few good stories in us.

He has run out of good stories, and now he is just using his past works to push stuff.

Hardly original and hardly unique.

He is no different that all the #@&*$ friggin companies shoving yet another tired excuse RTS game on us wargamers, and pretending they have actually done something special.

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 7
RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/14/2004 7:02:57 PM   
Pippin


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Well lets put it this way, didn’t he write SSN or SSBN. I was hoping for another Red October, unfortunately this turned out to be a total BS piece of crap, gave me reminding shivers of U-571 in an odd way.

I just finished Games of State one of the Op-Center books. I don’t know, things seemed a little too far fetched. Seems about some conspiracy about France and Germany starting a Riech again, with help of American white supremists etc. Well, I guess your right, he certainly has been running out of ideas.

Though he tried to make things creditable… Once in a while there would be some French or German comments, as though it added weight to the whole thing. He also would throw in some computer wiz words, thinking it made things technically impressive. That’s all great, but coming from a person who has worked most his life with computers, I will state that a lot of what Clancy wrote didn’t add up or make sense. He may con people into thinking he’s a computer genius but from his poorly written tech scenes, I am 99% positive he has never even seen assembler code in his life.

To top it off, the Op-Center books he co-wrote with another writer, amazing how both of them couldn’t put together a better novel. In any case, I see no why years ago I put down that ‘Games of State’ book and took me almost a decade just to finish it! LoL! Lets just say, I wont be reading that 500 pages of ‘junk’ again.

Maybe I am being too harsh, everyone runs into a flop now and then. I’ll try and finish the few other ones I have here and give him perhaps the benefit of the doubt. But I think I’m wasting my time.

Oh, another thing. It is a shame when you quickly grasp the Clancy algorithm. Suddenly any suspense you expected from a book goes down the tubes. For example, how many times, do I have to read about the lone American in the middle of an army of enemies, always escaping out, no matter what the odds, no matter how many times? Ugh… I thought a book needed some kind of suspense to get in the top sellers…. Guess not. Even as a kid it got boring when you knew Captain Kirk will always save the day or get back onboard the enterprise no matter what situation he is cast into AGAIN.

On a side note, thought I’d duplicate a page here. I know Clancy has been accused of having poor writing skills more than plot skills. But here I thought there was a tad too much SHE SAID HE SAID repetition…. What do you think?




“What kind of information did Bernard want?” Herbert asked. He was still drumming on the armrest. He really, really didn’t want to go to the French.
“That data is not in the file,” Alberto said. “It’s eyes only. I’ll have to go to Darrel for it.”
“Do,” Herbert said, “and call me as soon as you have something.”
“Okay,” Alberto said. “Is there a secure line you can get to?”
“I wont have time for that,” Herbert said. “You’ll have to take a chance and call me on the chair. Also, brief General Rodgers.”
“Of course. And since he’s going to ask, where do I tell him you’ll be?”
Herbert said, “Tell him I’m going to check out a few Chaos theories.”
“Ah,” said Alberto, “it’s that time of the year, isn’t it?”
“Right,” Herbert said. “The annual diseased maniacs’ convention. Which brings me to question number two. Have you got anything there on where the hub of these Chaos Days activities usually is?”
“Like a hospitality suite?” Alberto said.
“Not funny,” Herbert said.
“Sorry,” Alberto said. “Searching.”
Herbert could hear the tap of the computer keys.
“Yes,” Alberto said. “For the past two years, many conventioneers have kicked off events with a six P.M toast at the Beer-Hall in Hanover.”
“Why am I not surprised,” Herbert said……..

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 8
RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/15/2004 3:58:43 AM   
Chijohnaok2


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I never did get into the OpCenter series.

It was weird though how prophetic that scene at the end of Debt of Honor turned out to be.

The idea of someone using a passenger plane as a guided missle to crash into buildings seemed far fetched in 1994 when Clancy wrote this book.

Little did one know that 7 years later a group of madmen would act on this....

John

(in reply to Pippin)
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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/15/2004 4:03:51 AM   
Golf33

 

Posts: 1962
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From: Canberra, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

I never did get into the OpCenter series.

It was weird though how prophetic that scene at the end of Debt of Honor turned out to be.

The idea of someone using a passenger plane as a guided missle to crash into buildings seemed far fetched in 1994 when Clancy wrote this book.

Little did one know that 7 years later a group of madmen would act on this....

John

Stephen King (writing as Richard Bachman) got there first though, in the conclusion to Running Man, so Clancy wasn't doing anything terribly original there. I somehow doubt King was the first to think of it - ever since the Japanese Kamikaze strikes in WWII the idea that the aircraft itself could be the weapon has been out there, all that King and Clancy did was make the shift from military to civilian.

The really interesting thing is in the different perspective on it in Running Man and Debt of Honour; in King's book it's presented as the heroic act of a dying man attempting to take down the evil masterminds who keep the rest of the world drugged and in poverty.

Regards
33

< Message edited by Golf33 -- 9/15/2004 1:05:51 PM >


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Steve Golf33 Long

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RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/15/2004 4:22:06 AM   
Error in 0


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I thought Red Storm Rising was very entertaining, but the Rainbow 6 series.... I turned to SciFi after that.


JT

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Post #: 11
RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/15/2004 9:37:05 AM   
Hertston


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From: Cornwall, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

Well lets put it this way, didn’t he write SSN or SSBN. I was hoping for another Red October, unfortunately this turned out to be a total BS piece of crap, gave me reminding shivers of U-571 in an odd way.




SSN is pretty unique in that it's actually the book of the (and his) game, rather than the other way around. It's actually rather fun if you have played the game first.

Clancy was heavily into video game development at one time, and had a significant financial interest in Red Storm Entertainment (Rainbow 6, SSN, Rogue Spear, etc). R6 itself was really a joint book/game project, although the connection was rather looser.

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 12
RE: Tom Clancy.. - 9/16/2004 1:08:20 AM   
Pippin


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Joined: 11/9/2002
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I will try and get to the Net-Force stack here. Considering they are not too thick hopefully it wont take too much time to finish them.

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Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 13
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