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Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 5:22:34 AM

knob

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Joined: 9/19/2004
Status: offline

This is a post copied from another forum I visit, but I'm wanting other opinions. So if something sounds out of place, it's because it's from another board:

Over these past few days, I've been doing a PBEM game of Combat Mission: Beyond Overloard with raydude (He said he's going to do an AAR, so expect to see a report of it soon.( This will be one of the very few games I ever played to completion, and I have to say..I freaking love it! At first, I dreaded it. I don't know the game, I'm not an expert on all of the WW2 weaponry (Although I'm not completely clueless either) Needless to say, I've had to resort to Google to look up a few things to see what they did. (I had no idea what a Gammon bomb was, which, unfortunately for me, seems to be a pretty famous type of grenade, so maybe I don't know as much as I thought I did).

Anyway, to the point of the thread:

Because of this, I've been really considering getting another war game. Since I'm enjoying CMBO so much, I was really considering 'upgrading' to CMBB or CMAK. And that's one question I have: I really don't know much about North Africa and WW2, so how similar is CMAK to CMBO? Is it mostly large desert maps?

But, on the other hand, I'm considering something on a larger scale. I've used search and gone through some of the other posts, and that left me with a few questions. I'm really tempted to bite the bullet and go all out with it, and buy War in the Pacific. But I'm really worried I'll be biting off way more than I can chew. I hear the tutorial for the game is 68 or so pages, and the manual is considerably larger.

My big thing with these sort of games is the interface. Combat Mission has a fairly straight forward interface. How is WiTP's interface? How tough is it for a wargaming newbie to get into it?

I was also considering HTTR or Korsun Pocket. I'm freaking torn. I have no idea what to go with. Korsun Pocket was raved about. HTTR sounds fairly newbie friendly. WiTP is such a massive game that it'll undoubtably keep me busy for a long time if I can get into it/start to understand it. And CMBBB/CMAK are just a blast to play: Simple for a newbie to learn the basics, but there's so much depth once you really get into it.

And since this thread will attract some wargamers, just a random question thrown in that I've wanted to ask: Opinions on Sid Meier's Gettysburg! We've had this game for the longest time and never even bothered installing it. (Jewel case edition, no manual or anything) so I'm paranoid about installing it.

That's another thing I should mention, I seem to have a short attention span, if I can't figure it out, I seem to give it up. But if I have someone to play with and ask questions to, I'll usually get into it (As in a PBEM game). So in the end, if I end up getting one of these games, I'm going to need a PBEM opponent or two or three.

Post #: 1

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 5:59:47 AM

bostonrpgmania

Posts: 271
Joined: 9/14/2003
Status: offline

I am newbie myself in wargaming
My recent interest in the field (I had some years ago with CMBO) rekindled with Korun Pocket
It is operational level game but it is interesting (especially with smaller map and smaller number of units available from fan made scenarios).
After Korsun pocket my genuine interests in war gaming grew and become a frequent visitor of this interesting forum

In terms of learning curve HTTR is the easiest and then KP and UV is the most difficult. I have still to play uncommon valor.
HTTR is very fresh air in the field
KP is the most polished hex based/turn based operational level.
UV/WitP--I would say for more experienced
Ihope it helps

(in reply to knob)

Post #: 2

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 6:21:06 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

WitP (based on the UV system) is vastly different from what you are used to playing. It is a strategic-level game (allowing you some operational control) that puts you in command of either the Japanese or Allied forces that fought World War II in the Pacific. It emphasizes naval and air warfare while demanding that you control significant aspects of the logistical underpinnings of the war effort. Land warfare is geared toward control of "bases" (e.g., "Cities") that provide the springboard for your military operations.

It is a huge game that literally requires hundreds of hours to play. The computer opponent is not particularly good (unless you play at advanced levels that allow it to cheat liberally). Most people enjoy this game system as a platform for PBEM play.

If you want to take a giant leap forward in your computer gaming and play a simulation that is based in the old SPI monster boardgames of the 'seventies, this one's for you. If you prefer something that gives you control of limited forces in a situation where you have command of a portion of a theater for the purpose of executing an operation that will result in tactical victory or defeat, the games you have mentioned will probably be more to your liking.

If WitP still seems intriguing, I suggest that you pick up UV first and give it a try. It's a different world steeped in a different time (its roots are the late eighties - early nineties games by Gary Grigsby published by SSI, if you remember any of those).

Good luck - and good shooting.

(in reply to bostonrpgmania)

Post #: 3

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 8:25:10 AM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: knob

And since this thread will attract some wargamers, just a random question thrown in that I've wanted to ask: Opinions on Sid Meier's Gettysburg! We've had this game for the longest time and never even bothered installing it. (Jewel case edition, no manual or anything) so I'm paranoid about installing it.

An excellent, fun game, as are the others using the engine (Anteitam, Waterloo and Austerlitz). The box version DOESN'T run under Windows XP, assuming that's the operating system you are using. Help is at hand in the form of a downloadable version that does, which you will need to hunt on the internet for (you still need the CD in the drive to play).

You will find plenty of PBEM opponents for both WitP or KP. Both are deservedly very popular played that way. The same will be true of the next "Decisive Battles of WW2" game (the successor to KP), Battles in Normandy, which is now available and may appeal more to you. You won't find them for HttR simply because it's a continuous (not "real") time game rather than a turn based one. It offers internet play, but opponents are somewhat scarcer as games can (and do) last for hours. You CAN save mid-way, but PBEM is just more lifestyle friendly for most, I think

CMBtB and CMAK are more of the same in a sense, but the series has evolved well. The later games have greatly improved interfaces, look better (especially CMAK), are broader in scope, have (marginally) better AI and of course offer different theatres. If you like CMBO you will love either. I don't know about the US, but in the UK you can get all three games in a pack now for 20 UKP (about $35 US - although games are generally more expensive here) which is excellent value even if you already have one of them.

All those you mention are very good games, it's a just a case of deciding what you want. I never bought WitP simply because it's pedecessor, Uncommon Valor demanded more time than I was prepared to put into it but if you have that time I'm sure you will enjoy it. Of the rest, my personal favourite is HttR.. it's fresh, innovative and above all really fun to play.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 9/19/2004 6:27:04 AM >

(in reply to knob)

Post #: 4

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 8:45:52 AM

Bodhi

Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline

Hi Nick,

Like you I'm a newbie to war games that wanted to try something else after getting started with CMBO/CMBB. I decided to try Uncommon Valor (there was no KP or HTTR back then). It was a bit daunting at first, especially as the manual isn't, IMHO, very newbie friendly. However, I stuck with it and found it to be a highly enjoyable and rewarding game. WitP is very similar, just on a larger scale. Even for a UV player WitP can seem a bit of a handful initially, but once you get into it, it's not too difficult to manage. To be honest I find the UV/WitP interface a bit "clunky", but it works.

I've also tried KP, but couldn't get into it, and just last week got HTTR. After trying the tutorials of HTTR yesterday and today I'm sold. I think I'm going to have great fun with it, and someone coming from CMBO/CMBB will probably find it very "user friendly". I've found the interface intuitive and a joy to use. Unlike UV, which did take a bit of effort to learn before it became great fun, HTTR is very accesible from the start. Of course, the WitP and HTTR are very different scales, and I'd certainly rate WitP as one of the best games I've ever played, and, from a couple of days experience only, I think HTTR could join it.

Finally, as for CMAK, it also covers Italy and Crete and CMBO/CMBB/CMAK all have a very similar feel, so you won't have too many surprises if you get it. BTW, I've seen the "anthology" (all 3 CM titles) for sale cheaper ($35) than CMAK alone.

_____________________________

Bodhi

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Post #: 5

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 10:59:42 AM

bostonrpgmania

Posts: 271
Joined: 9/14/2003
Status: offline

Sid Meir game (Gettysbug) could be run under XP by applying patch which is available from Firaxis home page. I hope it helps.

@Bodhi

I really like to get into UV. How did you learn the game? For me the manual wasnt that helpful... please advise

(in reply to Bodhi)

Post #: 6

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 11:38:12 AM

Hertston

Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bostonrpgmania

Sid Meir game (Gettysbug) could be run under XP by applying patch which is available from Firaxis home page. I hope it helps.

Hmmm.. yup, that's all I can see now, too. There was an XP specific version floating around a while ago - I recall it had a fair few enhancements as well. It must have been a fan thing which subsequently got withdrawn.

(in reply to bostonrpgmania)

Post #: 7

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 11:43:02 AM

Bodhi

Posts: 1267
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From: Japan
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I agree, the UV "tutorial" wasn't much help at all. The manual was reasonable for getting the rules, although I think it is a bit out of date and incomplete so you shouldn't rely on it as being 100% correct. As for learning how to play the game, I just started a few scenarios knowing they were just tests and assuming I'd abandon them after I made a complete mess - which I did.

This coupled with reading of the relevant manual sections and visiting the UV forum here eventually saw me through. I found it a bit frustrating at times, but once you get the hang of the rules for task force and aircraft missions everything else seems to fall into place. I'm glad I persevered with it: at one stage it was beginning to feel more like hard work than fun. Of course, someone with more wargaming experience, especially board wargaming, may feel at home in a much shorter time.

(P.S. Unlike UV, WitP comes with a much better, and very useful, tutorial.)

_____________________________

Bodhi

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RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 12:38:23 PM

Golf33

Posts: 1962
Joined: 3/29/2003
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline

There's also a strategy guide available for HTTR which provides a fair bit of background information on the most important aspects of military organisation and equipment - you can see what people thought about it here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=620276

Regards
33

_____________________________

Steve Golf33 Long

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Post #: 9

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 12:50:55 PM

Bodhi

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From: Japan
Status: offline

Bought it last night Steve, printed it out 20mins ago, now about to sit on the sofa and read it.

Congrats to you and all at Panther for a well-done game.

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Bodhi

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Post #: 10

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 4:17:35 PM

EricGuitarJames

Posts: 957
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Not far enough away for some!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: knob

Because of this, I've been really considering getting another war game. Since I'm enjoying CMBO so much, I was really considering 'upgrading' to CMBB or CMAK. And that's one question I have: I really don't know much about North Africa and WW2, so how similar is CMAK to CMBO? Is it mostly large desert maps?

CMAK covers much more than just the war in the desert. There are many scenarios set in Italy, several in Greece and Crete, all have the same feel as CMBO but the interface and graphics are a touch superior to the original game.

Regarding HTTR, it's a 'must buy' for any wargamer! 'Korsun Pocket' and the new 'Battles in Normandy' take the old 'hex-based, turn-based' wargaming genre to new heights of sophistication but HTTR's 'real-time' feel and sophisticated command structure is, imho, the way forward.

I'd also recommend downloading 'Steel Panthers: World at War' from this very site - it's 'turn-based, hex-based' and the graphics are nothing to write home about

but it's FREE! and if you like it there are plenty of downloadable scenarios to add to the original game.

Another venerable series of games to check out are the 'Close Combat' series. These are tactical level games in the same manner as the 'Combat Mission' series but with a 'top down' perspective and are played out in real time. The first four games are now difficult to get hold of and may not run on XP but the fifth, set in Normandy, should still be available on a budget release.

There are plenty of other games out there, not just WW2, that others may recommend but that's my personal summary of what's worth checking out

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It's Just a Ride!

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Post #: 11

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 4:20:31 PM

EricGuitarJames

Posts: 957
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From: Not far enough away for some!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

Bought it last night Steve, printed it out 20mins ago, now about to sit on the sofa and read it.

Congrats to you and all at Panther for a well-done game.

If you've not already done so, check out the HTTR forums here. There's plenty of tips and ideas there as well as some decent AAR's that you might find helpful - with mine of course being by far and away the best

_____________________________

It's Just a Ride!

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Post #: 12

RE: Wargame questions from a newbie - 9/19/2004 6:03:22 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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All I can say is that its really good to see new people getting into wargames.

This is what we want. In a world of RTS and FPS games to manage to bring newbies into the fold is very good news indeed.

The only worry I can see at the moment with Matrix games is the price issues. I for one have no problem with them, I know what I buying and that I'm going to enjoy the game. However its doubtfull I would spend slightly more than normal on a game genre I didnt even know whether I'd like it or not. Especially as it is a download which then limits its second hand value in my opinion. Just a thought. Im seeing so many people being put off by the price of BiN and WiTP that its starting to worry me. These people are either newbies who are needed in this hobby or are old timers who just arent willing to part with money for a game they have been waiting for which is alos a worry. So many companys are falling by the wayside in the Game industry that every game sold counts.

(in reply to EricGuitarJames)

Post #: 13